Took me ages. Hope you all enjoy it.

:notworth:

...coming soon to an enhanced smilies menu near you...

:grad: :notworth:
Wheeeeeeew !!! Nice job, sir !

greg

Bully for you, Phil! This is just stupendous!

Thank you, Phil, for another fabulous contribution!

What a great idea! I wish I could see it bigger and better, but I guess Tony is working on that. You know, it would make a wonderful poster.
Thanks so much, Phil!

Nancy

Fantastic Phil :notworth: :notworth:

Nancy, that's a great idea. Sir Phil, any possibilities there? Could it be turned into a poster?

Thanks everyone, I'm glad you liked it.

A poster? Well, that would be quite difficult to do as I've only got a small monitor and increasing the size of those smilies would make them blurry. that means I'd have to draw up a whole load of new larger ones which would take hours, and possibly days. (The above diagram took me five hours). Maybe I could have a stab, but it's finding the time you see.

Just a couple of points to make about the diagram:

1) I based it upon my old ceph tree diagram in the fossils forum, which in turn was a simplified combination of Theo Engesers coleoid tree (http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~palaeont/fossilcoleoidea/phylogenetictree.html) and the tree in Clarkson's Invertebrate Palaeontology and Evolution (http://www.tonmo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=231)

2) The octopod branch is considerably older than the version in my old diagram due to the discovery of the Carboniferous Pohlsepia, which I didn't know about at the time.

3) The relationships of the coleoids, esp. the Cuttlefish and Teuthids to the belemnites has not been resolved as far as I'm aware. Some researchers think the cuttlefish maybe a descendant as opposed to sharing a common ancestor. Depicted is only one possibility, that area should be covered in question marks!

4) I lumped all the orders of nautiloids together for clarity. This is another confused issue with differing opinions as to how many orders there were.

5) I left off some of the more obscure cephalopod orders, e.g Phragmoteuthida and Diplobelida for clarity.

I think they are rather cute!

Hey, my wacky heteromorph ammonites are represented; that's all I could have asked for...

Actually, I've just discovered that it will print out onto an A4 sheet almost perfectly providing one sets all the margins to zero in 'Page Set-Up' (under 'FILE') and uses 'Landscape' format.

Not exactly a poster, but easier to look at than the screen.

A4 paper is slightly longer and narrower than 8 1/2" x 11", which also works!

Thanks, Phil!

Melissa

:notworth: :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

Phil, that is amazing! :thumbsup:

that's wonderful! And it looks great on paper too!

It looks really good as wallpaper too, until you want to find an icon on your desktop. 8-)

By the way Phil, could you reproduce this chart in an ID and/or creationist format for the other 2/3 of US science students? :grin:

Fantabulous Phil! :notworth: Twould be great for our suckers and tentacles programme at the aquarium!!!

J

By the way Phil, could you reproduce this chart in an ID and/or creationist format for the other 2/3 of US science students? :grin:

By your command.

Good job Phil, but you have forgotten the allmighty Cthulhu!

Ia Ia... Cthulhu Ftagn!

WWCD?

John

Thanks Phil :notworth: :read: :grad: :notworth:

By your command.
:lol: Classic.

:roflmao:

No words...

:notworth:

Brilliant!

:notworth: :roflmao:

Good job Phil, but you have forgotten the allmighty Cthulhu!

Ia Ia... Cthulhu Ftagn!

WWCD?

John

Cthulhu's not High Church at all. Besides, he ought to be represented on the original Family Tree of Cephalopods (with Smilies), along with the Fungi from Yuggoth, the Old Ones, the Great Race of Yith, various and sundry shoggoths... oh wait, only Cthulhu deserves to represented among the cephs. Sorry. Old Ones would be in with crinoids, the Fungi with, well, fungi, shoggoths with amoebas, and the Great Race with vintage vacuum cleaners.

wha? vaccum cleaner?

Did I miss something?

and the Great Race with vintage vacuum cleaners.

Isn't that just the bodies they inhabit?

Nowdays, they have dual cyclone action and a removable easily cleaned dust container.

And that's just something I like about them - they're so very adaptable.

ok... :confused: *finally gets it*


:lol:

:roflmao: Now to wipe the coffee off the keyboard again.

Melissa

We now have an historical look at the evolution of the geologic time scale. Starting with Phils second chart (originally published about 50 A.D.? or for the masses after the Guttenburg press c.1436). See here (http://norges.uio.no/timescale/C1_Fig2.7_Bleeker.pdf) (PDF), for the years 1759-2004. To Phils first chart. It seems to correspond well with advancements in all the other sciences and medicine. Fascinating :smile:

Thanks again Phil :notworth:

So the Tertiary has gone??? Damn!

That's fascinating Architeuthoceras, thanks for posting it. I note that no one messes with the Triassic, Jurassic and Cretaceous since Lyell updated himself in 1872, too right, that's Dino country.

When did the PreCambrian get all split up?

Wow things sure have changed since I took a school assembly at the age of eight on the subject of Dinosaurs, (1981 I guess), the paper I submitted (Allosaurous had bigger feet than our headmaster, Mr. Conolley) will be totally out of date!

OK, I have complete a little revision work on the ID version and added columns for Beasts, Geology and History.

Phil, please don't improve on that one, or I'll be killed by laughter. I haven't been able to breathe properly for the last ten minutes.

:notworth:

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Brilliant! Love the bit about Mr Picky :lol:

Because Phil is determined to ruin my keyboard, I've learned not to drink anything while I type. :roflmao:

See, now I think that picture you made is someone pretending to be a god. If this being was an engineer, he'd have a graphing calculator, cool goggles, and a huge wrench.

And are you accusing Noah of trawling all the ammonites? I mean, five people couldn't have eaten the entire world supply...

Oh, wait... I get it now!! How could I have had it all wrong? Paleontologists had it spelled incorrectly....

MOSES-saurs!!

Well, THAT question is answered... Where's my PhD. ? :grad:

John

Agreed. :lol:

Great work Dr. Phil, any Gilliam DNA in the family ?

Keef

:notworth:

...coming soon to an enhanced smilies menu near you...
Finally did this, thanks to help from Um....

Thanks Phil -- these are awesome!

(I also finally resized the smilies pop-up window so they're much more accessible).

:heteromor :spirula: :prolecani :ceratite: :plectrono :argonaut: :octopus2: :earlynaut :pohlsepia :aulacocer :tusoteuth :vampyromo

:earlynaut :earlyammo :goniatite :ceratite: :prolecani :heteromor

Thanks Tony, Um..., & Phil!

Just had to try this out with a few old externally shelled cephs.

:plectrono :argonaut: :onycho: This is too much fun! Thanks for all the new choices.

next step is to find some mosquitos that bit these creatures before they died, extract dna and create living organisms from that. then we need to create some theme park on an island!!! we can call it cephalopark!!!!

Did mosquitos invent or obtain self contained underwater breathing apparatus? Or did they just use Mosquito boats to get to the prey items? Hmmmm.....

Respect Phil, major respect! :notworth: :roflmao:

Oh, and Greg, newly purchased (99 Cents on e-bay) Chinese mosquito fossils clearly show a sub-marine variety of mosquito having existed in the pre-Noahian :smile:

i was about to say the same thing... also ive determined the island in the middle of nowhere we need to use for the theme park... now that skull island has been rediscovered by movie makers we can use it and it will already have the jurrasic park dinosaurs in it!!! now to just find some stupid people to write off on our theme park so the lawyers dont shut us down

i was about to say the same thing... also ive determined the island in the middle of nowhere we need to use for the theme park... now that skull island has been rediscovered by movie makers we can use it and it will already have the jurrasic park dinosaurs in it!!! now to just find some stupid people to write off on our theme park so the lawyers dont shut us down
We'll just declare skull island a sovereign nation and the lawyers can't touch us. A constitutional monarchy with Cthulhu as our King.
Long live the Ceph Republic! Ia! Ia! Ia!

hear! hear!!

those STOP hand motions by god to mark extinction is pure genius.
heh heh
heh heh
sweet

those STOP hand motions by god to mark extinction is pure genius.


Thanks, glad you liked it, Swarvegorilla. I got a bit carried away in Version 3.

Perhaps the Almighty got bored with belemnites. After intelligently guiding their design for 140 million years or so, He decided His time had been wasted on these little cephalopods and put an end to them with a whopping great meteorite and a few volcanoes. Obviously He favoured the incredibly similar teuthids and octopods which did not offend Him as the belemnites had done.

Sounds like a sensible and productive use of time to me, poor things.

:shock:

God's ways is mysterious, about as mysterious as what happens between Preists and little boys who were promised candy...to much info there.:hmm:

As someone on the "other" side of this coin, it's a good thing God gave me a sense of humor. :wink: .

Very nice. It's interesting to know the history of these marvelous creatures!:smile:

Thanks Cherry, most kind. There should be an awful lot of question marks in the coleoid side, especially around the cuttlefish/squid area.

Well, thanks a lot Phil. You just made me want to get myself a book on invertebrate paleontology. Anyone interested in taking a graduate student on the more tentacly aspects of paleontology?:madsci:

Have a look at ENK Clarkson's Invertebrate Palaeontology and Evolution (4th ed), quite technical, but certainly worth the money. Also Neale Monks and Phil Palmer published a very readable book called, appropriately, Ammonites in 2002. Either/both of these should get you started!

Good luck sir!

OK, I have complete a little revision work on the ID version and added columns for Beasts, Geology and History.


I thought your original was excellent, but this... this is priceless :roflmao:

Thanks Graeme! I had forgotten all about this thread to tell the truth. It's funny how things rear up from the past at you sometimes.

Apparently this week it's been featured in Pharyngula (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/01/cephalopod_phylogeny_made_simp.php) much to my shock!

Thanks Graeme! I had forgotten all about this thread to tell the truth. It's funny how things rear up from the past at you sometimes.

Apparently this week it's been featured in Pharyngula (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/01/cephalopod_phylogeny_made_simp.php) much to my shock!

:notworth: Wow, Phil, you are famous!

Phil, I just came across this family tree and it's absolutely brilliant. (Can't decide whether I like this one or the creationist one better :))

A few finer points of phylogeny for you, in case you're interested in further modifying this baby:
- Your ceratites seem to spring from within the goniatites, whereas we know pretty clearly that they sprang from within the prolecanites (yeah, I know no one ever uses that word, but I like it).
- Due to a couple of recent discoveries, it's now thought by some that ammonites may have just barely survived the K/Pg boundary. Oh, right, the word "Tertiary" is no longer officially sanctioned either.
- I thought that cuttlefish extended back at least into the Cretaceous. ?
- As I recall the evidence is pretty clear that argonaut shells go back to the Jurassic.
- I see you now have Pohlsepia in the Pennsylvanian. Presumably we are calling it a cirrate octopod, in which case the first non-cirrate form occurs in the Jurassic if you want to mark that separately. It is not an argonaut but is known rather from soft-body impressions from a quarry in France.

Again, my congratulations on a job well done.
- peftypefty

:welcome: to TONMO, peftypefty, I hope you plan on sticking around to participate in the science forums!

There's a thread around in "Fossils and History" about the evidence that ammonites survived the K/T extinction by a bit, but I think it only came up after Phil's artistic masterpiece...

Any references you have on Cretaceous cuttlefish sound like a good read... I have to confess to having a hard time remembering the details and timing of this stuff (hence needing to refer to charts involving smilies a lot and asking dumb questions of folks like Kevin & Phil) so I'm not sure if that's been mentioned on TONMO or not.

Phil, I just came across this family tree and it's absolutely brilliant. (Can't decide whether I like this one or the creationist one better :))

A few finer points of phylogeny for you, in case you're interested in further modifying this baby:
- Your ceratites seem to spring from within the goniatites, whereas we know pretty clearly that they sprang from within the prolecanites (yeah, I know no one ever uses that word, but I like it).
- Due to a couple of recent discoveries, it's now thought by some that ammonites may have just barely survived the K/Pg boundary. Oh, right, the word "Tertiary" is no longer officially sanctioned either.
- I thought that cuttlefish extended back at least into the Cretaceous. ?
- As I recall the evidence is pretty clear that argonaut shells go back to the Jurassic.
- I see you now have Pohlsepia in the Pennsylvanian. Presumably we are calling it a cirrate octopod, in which case the first non-cirrate form occurs in the Jurassic if you want to mark that separately. It is not an argonaut but is known rather from soft-body impressions from a quarry in France.

Again, my congratulations on a job well done.
- peftypefty

Oh, thanks very much Peftyx2! Welcome to TONMO too.

Your comments and tips are much appreciated, I'm glad you liked those old diagrams, they took a long time to knock up, but were tremendous fun to do. If I ever update the diagram I'll take your comments onboard.

* That's most interesting about the origin of the ceratites, I did not know that.

* Yes, I remember reading about the post-Cretaceous ammonites a couple of years ago. I think they were scaphitids and came from Poland weren't they? I know we had a thread on it somewhere. A search on a thread called 'Ammonites survived the Cretaceous Extinction' or some such should find it.

* Is that the current theory about cuttlefish origins? Most of the internet sources on cuttlefish evolution seem clouded in mystery and are contradictory so I wasn't sure what the working theory was when I drew the diagram up. Which group are they thought to have descended from, a belemnoid of some type perhaps?

* Is there any concrete evidence of Jurassic argonauts? At the time I researched the diagrams I couldn't find any evidence that they existed prior to the Oligocene, let alone the KT event. It's been a while since I've tried to investigate further, but perhaps a paper has come out since, or I quite simply missed it the first time round.

* I hope I didn't give the impression that Pohlsepia was some knd of primitive argonaut. I agree that it is probably some kind of cirrate octopod. The ten arms are a puzzler admittedly. I did try to cover the three forms of known fossil octopuses in the article of the same name, but if I made any major mistakes, please shout.

Welcome to TONMO and I look forward to reading your posts! :grin:

,

spirula being classified with the cuttles would seem to throw a wrench/spanner in the works of cuttlefish origins from belemnites, I'd think... there are no spiral-shelled belemnites, right? Of course, spirula is a wacky outlier regardless, and calling it a "cuttlefish" seems pretty peculiar to start with, although since it's internally shelled and it has feeding tentacles, I can understand the rationale.

:welcome: to TONMO peftypefty,

According to this article (http://apt.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&issn=0022-3360&volume=079&issue=03&page=0520) the first argonaut shell cases are found in the Paleogene (Tertiary). Of course it is a few years old now, so maybe some new fossils have been found.