/Somewhere there are pictures of the same bit of sea floor with pictures taken before a trawling ship came through, and another taken after. Can anyone tell me where to find those pics again?
Sharon

dont make me look!! dont make me look!! Evil. Its so evil. Some many people want fish but they dont care ware it comes from. Evil I dont eat fish or inverts from the ocean anymore becasue of awful people like that. I eat farm raised but not ocean. People complian ware are ther fish and why are the sharks close on the beach!! its becasue the sharks have no food. I would realy like to set up a group of people to bred aqarium fish so they cant point the finger at fish keepers. oh sorry I dont now ware thoughs pics are

These? (http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showpost.php?p=48707&postcount=45)

Thanks a lot. I stuck the Washington Post article under my husband's nose this morning, and was telling him about the pictures. I spent a fair amount of time looking for them but was aparently looking in all the wrong places. He's sufficiently horrified, and now is asking what we can do about it. Wish I had the answers for him, but the more people who are worried the better chance we have of getting some action. Actually, I'm thinking of sending these pics to congressman Gilchrest. He's not my congressman, but he's chairman of the house resources subcommittee on fisheries, conservation, wildlife and oceans. Unlike alot of republicans, he is really concerned about the environment. He was our congressman for one term before some redistricting took place, and he was very responsive when I called him right after he was elected. He even hired as his environmental aide someone I suggested he talk to, a researcher at World Watch Institute. He may have already seen some of this stuff, but reinforcement couldn't hurt. We need to get legislation passed banning bottom trawling in all US coastal waters.
Sharon

great idea, I would've sent letters to congressmen id I lived in the US, sad;y, we don't.

Has anyone seen this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4213592.stm

Hadn't seen that one Matt, Thanks. Always remember an interview I saw were the chappie was interviewing our own Steve O and Peter Talley from Talleys Fishing (One of the larger companies here in NZ) and Peter Talley was saying that there was no evidence to support the contention that bottom trawling damaged the environment :shock: The next shot was of a trawler hauling up a very large bubblegum coral.........there's none so blind as those who cannot see!! (or will not!) I think the TV company didn't have Steve and Peter Talley in the same room......if they had.......well now THAT would've been interesting TV!!

J

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7947
two bottom trawling videos

Talk about the grim reaper :sad:

j

/Somewhere there are pictures of the same bit of sea floor with pictures taken before a trawling ship came through, and another taken after. Can anyone tell me where to find those pics again?Sharon

Hi Sharon; pm me with your email address and I'll send you some (additional to those that the Sir Most Regal and Right-Footed, Most Honourable and Jolly-Good-Fellow, Lord and Fish-Net-Wearing Dr Ummmmm...... has already located).
Kindest, Me

Found this whilst doing one of my periodic squid image searches, and it comes courtesy of Greenpeace:

"Spectacular" Bottom-Trawled Squid (http://www.greenpeace.org/international/photosvideos/photos/this-spectacular-squid-is-disc)

Nothing in the photo to provide scale for the squid. The eye is quite protuberant.

Ban bottom trawling.

Cheers,
Clem

Looking at the T-shaped funnel-locking cartilages, it is some kind of ommastrephid squid (Ommastrephidae). If it is large it could well be your good old Humboldt; otherwise you'd be looking at, most likely, one of Todarodes or Ommastrephes.

It's eyes are bulging out like a deep sea fish reeled up real fast, and it's guts are all over the palce. Was it caused from the net slamming into the squid?

That bulging eye is likely to be capture damage, i've seen that before.

It kinda looks like a Todarodes we have gently pickling under a bench in our teaching Lab!

J

I just found this on the BBC website:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/video/9012da680028d30/nb/09012da68002901b_16x9_nb.ram

You'll need Real Player to see it I think.

dont make me look!! dont make me look!! Evil. Its so evil. Some many people want fish but they dont care ware it comes from. Evil I dont eat fish or inverts from the ocean anymore becasue of awful people like that. I eat farm raised but not ocean. People complian ware are ther fish and why are the sharks close on the beach!! its becasue the sharks have no food. I would realy like to set up a group of people to bred aqarium fish so they cant point the finger at fish keepers. oh sorry I dont now ware thoughs pics are How does rope damage the sefloor? thats what inshore trawlers tow around, as thay trie to stay away from rocks or "hard" bottem. only mud is all i seen! inshore trawling is fine, deepsea thats a diffrent story, people just get the wrong idea, go out and have a look sometime then you see for yourself, go hard all you fishaman!

/Somewhere there are pictures of the same bit of sea floor with pictures taken before a trawling ship came through, and another taken after. Can anyone tell me where to find those pics again?
Sharon
HA HA HA yes that was the NIWA trawler that done that damage! i seen the photos, sad how thay have to do that for a few

photos

With all due respect, do you know what you are talking about? NIWA doing that? I think not.

great idea, I would've sent letters to congressmen id I lived in the US, sad;y, we don't.
you must get out there sometime............. and test your own eyes mate, you know nothing but sitting on your sit with your com, vr=ery sad i must say what people dream and like to think, remember get out have a look befor you start dude. get out there get out there and see for yourself....... what a joke........... :goodbye:

for your information, I just came back from a diving trip and a fact-finding mission on the impacts between fishing, eco-tourism and the balance of SouthEast Asia's fisheries stock. And I will now say that your PM was offensive and rude. I will now cease to reply to you and your furthur posts until you know what you are talking about.

:alarm:

This one came out of the blue; it's been a while since we've had a commercial fisher online.

:welcome: Sharkfin, but let's not resort to abuse as all that will happen will be that you and all of your posts will be removed from the site (we have done this before).

You are 31; what you are seeing now is the result of a century of impact. Certainly inshore fisheries use lighter-weight gear than deep-water fisheries, but the impact is comparable. Ask some of your older colleagues about trawling back in the 50's and 60's - they'll tell you a different story about what was down there (and how much fish they caught). You'll also find that an increasing number of retired fisherfolk tell a completely different story to the newer generation of fishers, and that with the benefit of age and wisdom they do recognise that their fishing techniques have significant damaged the seabed (although the terminology used today is 'modified').

I'll feed the troll no further.

for your information, I just came back from a diving trip and a fact-finding mission on the impacts between fishing, eco-tourism and the balance of SouthEast Asia's fisheries stock.
Dude!
Way to go CW!
Must have been real cool... *jealous*

TPOTH

Did a tour on Suneday for 2 North Sea Fishermen.......Apparently the lack of fish is all down to fisheries scientists, telling them to fish as much as they wanted cos the cod, herring, haddock.....etc etc won't run out :shock: I mustv'e been asleep during that part of our fisheries lectures! Seems that in the UK the big nasty anti fishing gremilin is now the EU!!

J

Did a tour on Suneday for 2 North Sea Fishermen.......Apparently the lack of fish is all down to fisheries scientists, telling them to fish as much as they wanted cos the cod, herring, haddock.....etc etc won't run out :shock: I mustv'e been asleep during that part of our fisheries lectures!

Well, unfortunately they are partially correct. There is a long history of gross overestimating of the fish stocks in the North Sea (and around Europe/US in general). Lack of general knowledge (hence research) is to blame more than a deliberate effort to empty our oceans (in most cases). However we now know a lot more. The fact that a fish can lay million of eggs doesn't mean that we can repopulate an ocean by leaving a handful of fish to do the job (talk about pressure!). The myriad factors affecting survival rate from egg release to mature adult are better known but that knowledge is still incomplete and/or impractical. Oh and saying "yeah scientists told us to fish but we [the fishermen] knew it was wrong" is laughable to the point it becomes pathetic.

Seems that in the UK the big nasty anti fishing gremilin is now the EU!!
The EU is the best scapegoat of all. Gets blamed for everything. A lot of people rant against EU directives/quotas/"laws" and how they mean nothing at a local level but tend to forget that their own politicians are responsible for that constant fudging. Agricultural regulations are iirc especially ridiculous and set up to fail anyhow. About the same with fishing. Akin to drawing the blanket to oneself no matter what. IMHO the EU is the only way through which a resolution to the North Sea overfishing can come about. Too many countries fighting over a small areas, constant clash between national regulations, etc... there is the need for an organisation to step up and enforce a moratorium (total or partial, so long as something gets started) regardless of national resentment and the thrice-cursed electoral grumpiness. Again drawing a parallel with the land, farners have had to adapt to survive in the wake of changing public opinion regarding battery-farming, fetilisers, pesticides and new EU-wide directives (although the latter are far from perfect) and it meant for a lot of them to convert to something else. I'm thinking the voting/lobbying power of those people at the time exceeded that of the fishing community of today but it did happen eventually. Can't help but thinking that the fishing industry is simply trying to delay things just long enough for them to finish raping our seas, make a buck and finally give up the ghost. I can already hear them saying "ok, let's make all the oceans no-take zones, no more fishing! see? we are good and nice" ... until somebody points out there is absolutely nothing left (but plankton... if that, since plankton can always be harvested to feed fish farms). See the de-facto marine reserves of New Zealand because it's too deep/difficult to fish there.... :roll:
I believe Europeans (and others for that matter) have a choice to make right now. Do we want to save what's left or let it die out and get a plankton soup in the North Sea? Sometimes i reckon we should let the whole thing collapse completely, wait for the scrapyards to dispose of the fishing fleet and then repopulate (somehow).

TP:yinyang:TH

True TPOTH, but my thought was if you (the fishers) knew that the scientists had got it wrong......why did they carry on fishing????? They couldn't answer that one! (I suspect the almighty dollar/pound/euro was in control...plus the "my dad, his dad, his dad all did this" attitude prevailed!)..

J

We covered a similar idea on this in a random ethics class I took.
It is logical for the fisheries to stop for their own benefit, however since this isnt going to happen, the logic shifts to maximising the individuals takings, which are first in first served. If your not there exploiting the fish someone else is - so it might as well be you.
Thats why you cant have the fishing industry regulate itself.
Personally I dont blame them, the situation sucks, but its a lack of information presented to the public thats the real cause.

Banning bottom trawling doesnt get many votes unfortunately, and the votes it gets are probably equalled by the disgrunted fishermen.

I think a perfect example of why we have a problem here - the main opponent to the fisheries industry - is the Forest and Bird conservation group. They are great - but not exactly a group with as directed a focus on the oceans as the fisheries industry.

Trying to get the public interested in saving something they dont get to see is a very difficult task I imagine.