View Full Version : [BREAKING NEWS]: Colossal Squid
This thread has been established to track press coverage of Dr. Steve O'Shea's (http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7) and Kat Bolstad's (Tintenfisch (http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8)) work with the Colossal Squid. The existing articles are as follows:
Colossal squid a formidable customer (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/marine/marinestorydisplay.cfm?storyID=3350503&reportID=57034)
Giant sea monsters are real (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2375953a11,00.html) (This one includes references to the TONMO.com community!)
Mammoth task (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/0,2106,2375928a6000,00.html)
Detailed discussions with Dr. O'Shea and Tintenfisch can be found in the Physiology and Biology (http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=4) forum.
Here it is on the BBC, with remarkable photos!
Super squid surfaces in Antarctic (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2910849.stm)
TaningiaDanae
Apr 02, '03, 7:24pm
This is an absolutely remarkable discovery, and I wonder if this would cause us to re-think a lot of the sailors' stories that heretofore were thought to be fabrications.
The stories about encounters with dead or dying specimens on the surface are most likely about Archis, because nothing was said about claws on the tentacles. However, it occurs to me that all those accounts of "Giant Squid" attacking lifeboats and sailing ships, pulling sailors to their deaths, and engaging in "colossal battles" with Sperm Whales, may very well have been true except for the fact that the "Giant Squid" was actually a Mesonychoteuthis.
This may even vindicate Peter Benchley's apparently farfetched account of the title creature in BEAST.... again, substituting "Mesonychoteuthis" for "Architeuthis".
Any thoughts on this from Steve-O', Kat, James Wood, or Richard Ellis?
Tani
Interesting point, Tani! Might need to re-read Ellis' The Search for the Giant Squid with a new perspective...
:read: ... More coverage:
Merco Press Fisheries News (http://www.falkland-malvinas.com/Detalle.asp?NUM=2023)
WhiteKiboko
Apr 02, '03, 10:41pm
is a common name is needed, why not call it a TONMOnster? afterall, "If you fall in the water near one, you're history," hey, we could have Mesonychoteuthis hamiltoni brought to you by Tonmo.com... it works for the college football games.... i know i may be making light of a fairly significant scientific revelation, but we all need to try to contribute in our own particular ways...
Fujisawas Sake
Apr 03, '03, 1:26am
ROCK AND ROLL!!
Steve! Tani! Toni! This is incredible!! I am so stoked!
Steve, remember a few months ago you told me that you thought that there were bigger squid in the sea? Wow! I'm so happy! Wait until I unleash this tidbit on my unsuspecting wife and fellow students!
:beer:
It's Guiness time!! I drink to your good health!
I want to make these discoveries some day.... Its time to go into marine biology
*sigh* We don't get much news like that here, mostly since all we seem to be getting is war news. Really though, this is an exciting time to be alive!
Thanks for the links Tony!
Sushi and Sake,
John
WhiteKiboko: I was selfishly hoping it would be named Tonmoteuthis... but I'll take a college football commercial! :lol:
The Associated Press has picked up the story, as indicated in this Kansas City publication:
Huge Squid Caught in Antarctic Waters (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/breaking_news/5548742.htm)
...and so many more, due to AP syndication (some w/ photos, etc.):
Tampa Bay Herald Tribune (http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20030403&Category=API&ArtNo=304030663&Ref=AR)
UK Guardian Unlimited (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-2530576,00.html)
Tampa Bay (http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20030403&Category=API&ArtNo=304030663&Ref=AR)
and here's a unique cut on CNN/Asia:
Deep sea monster squid found (http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/04/03/colossal.squid.reut/)
...and from Ireland Online:
NZ fishermen catch more than they bargain for (http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=66444484&p=66445y9x)
...and also distributed globally via Reuters (mirrors some of the other links above):
Rare Colossal Squid Found Near Antarctica] (http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=2499413)
Steve O'Shea
Apr 03, '03, 7:33am
I just want to assure you all that this is one sensational, seriously evil animal; there is no media hype here!
Am pretty tired; looks like it's breaking in the US now (I might hide from the phone).
Cheers
Me
Also picked up by MSNBC:
Rare colossal squid captured (http://www.msnbc.com/news/894828.asp)
ABC News with coverage (via Reuters):
Rare Colossal Squid Found Near Antarctica (http://abcnews.go.com/wire/SciTech/reuters20030403_35.html)
Here's another report from Ananova.
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_766904.html
tonmo
Apr 03, '03, 10:12am
Heh...
[image no longer available... :( .... was an animated graphic of Steve (that someone somewhere made) of him looking at the colossal squid beak, and it snapping back at him, and the bottom read, "squid hunter"].
tonmo
Apr 03, '03, 10:49am
Original piece from The Australian:
Giant killer squid hooked from sea
(http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,6234996%255E2703,00.html)
WhiteKiboko
Apr 03, '03, 12:24pm
that Squid Hunter picture is TOO funny.... but i have an idea for Steve (if he wouldnt mind cooperating) a bit of an experiment.. if cnn/fox/anything with a large audience comes calling, talk to them... in the process of explaining things refer to it both as a Colossal Squid and as a TonMonster... then we could see which the reporter(s) pick up on and use... i think the notion of a respectable scientist (as we all hope you are :roll: ) calling something a monster would be hard to resist... although there isnt anything wrong with calling it Colossal
Nice, another link to TONMO.com (the O'Shea interview):
Old "Giant" Squid Dwarfed by New "Colossal" Squid Species (http://www.scifitoday.com/story/2003/4/3/84342/67661)
and coverage on CBS:
Fishermen Hook A Colossal Catch (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/03/tech/main547541.shtml)
...and speaking of Mr. Ellis... This article is not directly related to the colossal squid breaking news, but it is relevant to Tani's post:
Squid man speaks at Discovery Day (http://www.atchisondailyglobe.com/main.asp?FromHome=1&TypeID=1&ArticleID=1237&SectionID=16&SubSectionID=33)
clawjaw
Apr 03, '03, 4:52pm
This was even at the allspark (TF message board)! And about the discovery... Squid are getting bigger, smarter. Only a matter of time before they retake the earth. (Huddles in corner) :squid:
smellslookstasteslikeocta
Apr 03, '03, 5:12pm
hey ho,
on most of the original accounts of "giant squid" (usng term loosely) werent most of the sailors in Non-freezing temperature waters? I thought these big guys only stayed in the *burrr* cold. oh well...
did the fisherman get any hits from those big spiny tentacles when he hooked it in the boat? :oops: ouch if he did
well party on steve and congradumalations
Steve O'Shea
Apr 03, '03, 6:09pm
That's one long handle you have there smellsandtasteslikeocta!
I think we really don't know what's down there - if we're still finding large animals like this in 2003 who knows what we'll find tomorrow, deeper still, anywhere. We really do need to do more deep-ocean exploration, and indeed oceanic exploration anywhere, at any depth. I think you'll find a few more sensational animals out there (there is another very large squid down in the Antarctic also, related to Mesonychoteuthis - let's hope we get a specimen for science soon).
We shouldn't fix on the size of this animal (sure, that's a rather sensational thing about it), because there are many equally amazing smaller animals (octopus, squid and invertebrates in general) that are equally exciting, if not more so.
Kindest
Steve
Tintenfisch
Apr 03, '03, 8:31pm
I see we have a new member called colossalsquid... a timely appearance, if I may say so! :)
This article has a photo I don't believe I've seen yet:
Colossal squid with 'parrot's beak' caught (http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/newsid_2915000/2915281.stm)
Bald Evil
Apr 04, '03, 12:42am
Hi all. :D I'm new to the forum here, but I'm a long-time junior teuthologist and crypto-fan. When I saw the news about this squid crawl by on CNN last night, I bolted out of bed and fired the comp back up to find out everything I could. I've been pretty well glued to the story since then.
After my initial enthusiasm over the capture of this animal wore off, it was replaced by a sort of profound and sombre awe. It is humbling to think that even as I type these words, and as you read them, these vast and alien creatures are moving through the oceans, heedless of humanity, kings of their dark domain. Can we ever know them? And how much more is there in the depths that we don't know, may never know? No one can say.
I do find it amusing that this amazing creature should be revealed to us now. While the world's attention is focused on the war in Iraq, humanity is quietly reminded that there are still secrets in the world that no satellite or intelligence agent can uncover. The giants were here before us, and they will likely linger on after us, and they will never know we were. :wink: Food for thought!
corw314
Apr 04, '03, 7:00am
I just saw a news clip on Fox 5 featuring our own Dr. O'Shea and Tintenfisch, showing them measuring!!!! Nice pictures!!! Guess this story is now hitting the US!!!!
Carol :)
Heres one from my local paper
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003151808,,00.html
So, its only half grown??????
Steve, when did the soup strainer go????
:)
Kopffuss
Apr 04, '03, 3:50pm
Tintenfisch, please marry me. I've fallen for you! That picture of you next to that squid is such a turn-on. Please don't leave me hangin'. Would you be mine?
WhiteKiboko
Apr 04, '03, 4:29pm
calm down there chief.... while i agree a fetching young lady with a great knowledge of cephs is a huge plus, :) how can you refer to any picture with several meters of stinking aquatic corpse as a turn on? of course if i understood humans i guess id be interested in psychology.....
TaningiaDanae
Apr 05, '03, 12:24am
calm down there chief.... while i agree a fetching young lady with a great knowledge of cephs is a huge plus, :) how can you refer to any picture with several meters of stinking aquatic corpse as a turn on? of course if i understood humans i guess id be interested in psychology.....
Awww, c'mon, don't be such a speciesist! I think the squid's kinda cute too. In fact, I'm thinking of getting a small one for my bathtub. More fun than a rubber duckie, plus you can use the claws to clean the grout between the tiles and pull stubborn hair clogs out of the drain. Beak doubles as an automatic toenail clipper, for a professional-quality pedicure while relaxing in the bath. Also a nifty way to scare off mooching houseguests who have outstayed their welcome!
Hmmm, wonder how much one of those things would go for on eBay.... ?
Colin
Apr 05, '03, 12:33am
Not to mention some defoliation with those nifty little hooks on the arms........ mmmm clean!
Tintenfisch
Apr 05, '03, 12:49am
Tintenfisch, please marry me. I've fallen for you! That picture of you next to that squid is such a turn-on. Please don't leave me hangin'. Would you be mine?
Aw shucks... :roll:
Hm, Pennsylvania... Axel, bist du's? Koennte es mir irgendwie vorstellen...
Or, if this is FINALLY Ryan Stiles... YES!! ;)
WhiteKiboko
Apr 05, '03, 9:58am
Hmmm, wonder how much one of those things would go for on eBay.... ?
i think 39.99, but only if you include a Pasta Pro..... i do have to say that im very jealous, you must have QUITE a tub.... but if that german family can keep an eel in their tub for 20+ yrs ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2722603.stm ) why not a Mesonychoteuthis? it could serve as another garbage disposal and a sure fire way to lure amateur ceph heads around (whether that was deired or not)
"Hey Tani, can the Colossal Squid come out and play?"
Kopffuss
Apr 05, '03, 10:10am
This Axel character you speak so highly of sounds interesting. What a coincidence. We're residing in the same state (there are some 50 of them you know).
I had a real question pertaining to the forum. Was the story broadcasted on TV at all? Or will there be in the near/not so near future? I really want to see this beast on the tube! :lol:
Fujisawas Sake
Apr 05, '03, 12:36pm
Kopffuss,
Out here on the Western Frontier of CA we were treated to footage of El Squiddo, but mostly through LOCAL news... War and SARS pretty much filled up the national news. *sigh*
I did, however, catch a netcast on BBC Online (www.bbc.co.uk)... Try there if you have a decent connection.
PBS did a CEPH special a few years back called "Incredible Suckers". Maybe we can lobby a sequel? :P
Also, I think that Mesonchyteuthis should be changed to Tyranoteuthis osheatintenfischtonmoii...
Still searching the trees for squibbons... Or the ever elusive tree shark...
Sushi and Raspberry Sake,
John
WhiteKiboko
Apr 05, '03, 2:26pm
Steve, when did the soup strainer go????
You're right....now he looks like Alan Cumming from "Goldeneye"
:)
are you invincible Steve?
TaningiaDanae
Apr 05, '03, 2:52pm
"Hey Tani, can the Colossal Squid come out and play?"
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Love it!
Re the eel story: It apparently made the papers all the way from Europe to the US, Middle East, Africa, and Australia:
http://www.petsforum.com/petnews/020303b.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s757499.htm
http://www.arabia.com/afp/life/offbeat/article/english/0,11448,358592,00.html
URL truncated by TONMO :) (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_746870.html?menu=news.weirdworld.hear twarmers)
http://www.moggies.co.uk/wybi/2003/feb2003_2.html (scroll down)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2722603.stm
http://www.dispatch.co.za/2003/01/04/foreign/AEEL.HTM
and that's just the tip of the smorgasbord.
It is heartwarming to know that in this world of war, terrorism, crime, greed, and disease, so many people can take the time to champion the personal rights of an aging would-be appetizer.
:goldfish: (Where is an eel smiley now that we need one?)
But I digress.... re my bathtub, on reflection it might not be an ideal environment for a healthy, growing Colossal Squid. However, I've come up with an alternative plan that will be ideal for everyone concerned (teuthid and bipedal):
While my tub has limited space, there's always room in the TONMO Official Jacuzzi! And if we relocate the Humboldts to another home, the CS will have plenty of swimming room. It works out well for us too, because it's more economical to have just one beak to feed than a dozen. All we have to do is toss in the occasional lawyer, tax auditor, or smartass Kiwi teuthologist, and our CS will remain sleek, robust, and well-fed.
As for the Pasta Pro, I think we can give that to some needy Italian chef, since we could always teach the CS to drain the spaghetti through its claws, and toss and serve salads with its feeding tentacles. That delicate soupçon of ammonia will add a delightfully piquant flavor to our culinary creations.
Eat your heart out, Emeril -- BAM! :meso: :wine:
Kickin' it up a notch,
The Tanster
WhiteKiboko
Apr 05, '03, 3:18pm
DANG!!! i was hoping to bring up the hottub connection..... :) who knows, maybe i can strap on my old football gear and wrestle a Colossus for charity.... (idea to rivive an amusing but dying thread) as for john, are we getting in the springtime mood with the fruit flavoured sake? are tree sharks just reallly mean squirrels? and as for Kat, ryan stiles is yet another reason i dont understand the Homo lineage....:)
...and as for Kat, ryan stiles is yet another reason i dont understand the Homo lineage....:)
...not touching with a 10-foot mantle... :headphon:
flaggermus
Apr 06, '03, 5:09pm
hei, sosterin min! jer er naa en member paa tonmo. jeg ser et bardun har deg spoer, han "zu verheiraten". hva vil du svare? er hun svaer axel?
jeg har ogsaa alle artikkelene las. veldig veldig fint!
:D
Tintenfisch
Apr 06, '03, 8:03pm
Dude...
[ahem] For everyone else around here, that's my little (OK, sorry, younger) sister... I guess TONMO is a family affair now! 8)
Velkommen til TONMO!
Fujisawas Sake
Apr 06, '03, 9:53pm
WhiteKiboko,
Well, the Hakusan family brewery/winery is a few hours south of here in Santa Rosa, CA. They make great Sakes, including Plum and Raspberry, as well as filtered and unfiltered. I love good sake, hot or cold. As far as other alcohols I prefer a good Japanese beer or lager from the U.K.
:beer:
But sake and such is always best with a buddy :cheers:
"Flaggermus" (?? some kind of mouse or bat??)... Welcome to TONMO. I have NO idea what your post said, but I'll assume it was friendly... :lol: My languages are Spanish, English, some Russian, and some ancient Egyptian (I'm really working hard on the last two!)
Some time ago a local fisherman caught a 40 lb Enteroctopus ... He let it go afterwards, thankfully... Other than that, no new ceph news on the western frontier....
Sushi and Sake,
John
Tintenfisch
Apr 06, '03, 10:59pm
"Flaggermus" (?? some kind of mouse or bat??)
Very good :grad:
Flaggermus means bat in Norwegian. My sister is to bats as I am to squid, basically. :)
Alas, my knowledge of foreign languages (aside from German & Norwegian) is mostly limited to non-useful phrases, mostly including the word 'octopus.' (In Russian I can say 'thanks for the octopus' and in Japanese 'your octopus is tiny.') So... how do you say octopus in ancient Egyptian?
flaggermus
Apr 07, '03, 1:49am
bravo on the translation of "flaggermus". i bet the ancient egyptian is pretty fun to speak. wow! 8)
i'm kat's sister (maybe not SO little anymore), and thought it was high time that i join the website on which she is so prominently a part of. especially since she's getting such wicked news coverage for the colossal squid! woohoo! everyone here is really stoked about it.
i speak german and english, and am working on my norwegian. as my sister said, bats are to me as squid are to her. i thought about calling myself blekksprut, but that was more up her alley than mine. oh well. it's fun to finally be a member here!
cheers! 8)
Fujisawas Sake
Apr 07, '03, 2:25am
Tintenfisch and Flaggermus,
Thankee-sai. I tend to read a lot of biological science books, so the Greek, Latin, and other langauge bases make me somewhat of an expert in Biology as a Second Language, as I like to say.
Bats? I love bats. My wife is taking mammalogy right now, and I know the local species pretty well, as well as some of the off the wall random species around the world. I still think one of the ugliest animals in the galaxy is Hipsognathus monstrosus, the Hammer-head bat. From what I can tell, I think the name means "Horse-jawed monster" or something like that.
As far as cephalopods, well, I tend to want to understand molluscs in general, and my ulterior motive for joining this club has been to increase my knowledge on what I believe to be the ultimate mollusc; a creature with advanced intelligence and design. I think cephs are a miracle; molluscs that stretch the molluscan body plan or bauplan, to its limits. Its like seeing a dolphin skull for the first time. Same bones as us, but completely moved about and modified, as if molded as some strange form of biological plastic. And what does the future hold? New advances in cephs? Eyeless bats that prowl the night skies and lurk on the forest floor? The possibilities are endless....
Sushi and Sake,
John
As a complement to "Archie," perhaps Mesonychoteuthis ought to be referred to as "Mason."
TaningiaDanae
Apr 07, '03, 11:31am
As a complement to "Archie," perhaps Mesonychoteuthis ought to be referred to as "Mason."
Better yet, as a complement/compliment to "Nessie", how about "Messie"? (I've got a feeling that would be descriptive of the way they eat....)
:D :meso:
The Patagonian toothfish would certainly agree.
WhiteKiboko
Apr 07, '03, 3:13pm
interesting... couldnt find anything pertaining to Mesonychoteuthis on CephBase... i guess there's really not enough info yet to bother with an entry...
Sedusa
Apr 07, '03, 3:28pm
Hi WhiteKiboko,
CephBase Mesonychoteuthis hamiltoni entry (http://www.cephbase.utmb.edu/spdb/speciesc.cfm?CephID=443)
Saw it the other day when I heard the news and was digging around for info, thought I'd post a link for ya
Saul
WhiteKiboko
Apr 07, '03, 3:30pm
dont know why i couldnt find with the search...oh well, thanks! :)
TaningiaDanae
Apr 07, '03, 9:31pm
The Patagonian toothfish would certainly agree.
Hi Clem -- according to the CephBase chart, the Patagonian toothfish is Messie's predator, not its prey. Then again, I assume that applies to full-grown PTs vs. larval Messies. (I've got a feeling that when we're talking about full-grown Messies, the predator-prey relationship is vice-versa!)
:mrgreen: :meso:
Tani, Armed Marauder of the Benthic Abyss!
TaningiaDanae
Apr 07, '03, 10:02pm
hei, sosterin min! jer er naa en member paa tonmo. jeg ser et bardun har deg spoer, han "zu verheiraten". hva vil du svare? er hun svaer axel?
jeg har ogsaa alle artikkelene las. veldig veldig fint!
:D
Flaggermus, kial vi skribas norvege? Mi parlas esperante -- nur iomete -- sed neniam mi skribus esperante cxi tie! (Ne cxagrenigxi, mi sole sxercas :wink: )
Amike,
Tani
I do believe the latest Mesonycho specimen was apprehended in the act of sucking down Patagonian Toothfish.
Steve O'Shea told the CBC that it was snapping the toothfish off of baited hooks. "Biting them off behind the head" was how he described it.
An unpleasant image.
Steve O'Shea
Apr 07, '03, 10:29pm
Did I say that :wink: I guess it must be true then :grad:
Actually, when small (as in considerably smaller than this present specimen), Mesonychoteuthis almost certainly would be eaten by larger Patagonian Toothfish, but as the squid grows predator soon becomes prey (so this might explain the toothfish being cited as 'predator' on cephbase - based on toothfish stomach content analysis).
Could go either way
Cheers
O
TaningiaDanae
Apr 07, '03, 10:30pm
I do believe the latest Mesonycho specimen was apprehended in the act of sucking down Patagonian Toothfish.
Steve O'Shea told the CBC that it was snapping the toothfish off of baited hooks. "Biting them off behind the head" was how he described it.
An unpleasant image.
Ouch -- gives new meaning to the phrase "instant karma"! James Wood is gonna have to add Patagonian Toothfish to the Prey chart too. Sounds like what happens to hatchling crocodiles, some of which are eaten by large fish, while the surviving hatchlings grow up to eat the same species of fish in turn.
Suddenly those wild stories -- about "giant squid" attacking boats and pulling down sailors hanging on to life rafts -- don't sound as apocryphal anymore, assuming the culprits were Messies rather than Archis. Ditto the speculation about size. The account by that Merchant Marine guy from the 1940s who saw a huge squid swimming beside his boat, which he estimated to be about 100 ft. long, was probably accurate too.
Now the question of finding a live "giant squid" becomes more complicated. Coming face-to-face with a live Architeuthis is an exhilarating prospect. Coming face-to-face with a live Mesonychoteuthis is both exhilarating and frightening. One would hope that, in the latter case, we find it before it finds us.
I can just hear H.P. Lovecraft's ghost laughing with delight....!
:meso: = :cthulhu: :?:
Steve O'Shea
Apr 07, '03, 10:31pm
just beat you to that posting by seconds Tani (same wavelength eh)
TaningiaDanae
Apr 07, '03, 10:34pm
Could go either way
Cheers
O
Hey Steve-O', looks like we posted to the Board at the same time! Now I feel vindicated by an expert :!:
The Tanster
TaningiaDanae
Apr 07, '03, 10:35pm
just beat you to that posting by seconds Tani (same wavelength eh)
You took the words right outta my beak! :lol:
Taningia,
Yes, Lovecraft would be delighted with Mason/Messy, as would H.G.Wells (read his short story, "The Sea Raiders").
Then again, Lovecraft might have been one of "them."
:shock:
Clem
TaningiaDanae
Apr 08, '03, 5:59am
Taningia,
Yes, Lovecraft would be delighted with Mason/Messy, as would H.G.Wells (read his short story, "The Sea Raiders").
Then again, Lovecraft might have been one of "them."
:shock: [the Innsmouth look? - TD]
Clem
Hi Clem --
Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn! I see you are among the many TONMOers who venerate the Eldritch Gentleman from Providence. There are several of us here who have made that wise choice, as when :cthulhu: awakes from his aeons-long sleep in R'lyeh, we will have the privilege of being eaten last. Not too shabby, eh?
Is "Sea Raiders" the one about the guy who stumbles upon a meeting of super-intelligent Octos plotting to take over the world? I think I read that years ago, and it was very good -- ya can't miss with either HGW or HPL! (Obviously they were both One of Them....)
And BTW, thank you for being the only person on this board with enough class to call me by my beautiful genus name. (All you other peasants, take note! :grad: ) C'mon over here so I can give you a BIG HUG:
http://seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov/OCEAN_PLANET/HTML/squid_taningia_surprise.html
(Was it good for you too?) :D
La Belle Taningia
(Ms. Danae If You're Nasty!)
Taningia,
First Kat gets a marriage proposal, and now I've been embraced by a strobing teuthid. What next?
Growing up in Providence likely pre-disposed me to appreciate Lovecraft's work.
"The Sea Raiders" didn't plot to take over the world, but they did eat some people.
This might be a topic better suited to Kat's Pop-culture forum, but it is true that artists occasionally anticipate science before it becomes science. Benchley's breaching, aerial-gaping Great White comes to mind. Many informed people scoffed at the notion of a white shark getting airborne and sticking its head out of the water, behaviors now familiar to anyone who watches "Shark Week."
"Archie-toothless" still doesn't have any talons, however.
Clem :shock:
squidhavefeelings2
Apr 08, '03, 10:29am
I felt sad when I read the story.
They should not have killed the squid by gaffing at it and dragging it on board, indiscriminately killing the animal. Now that its dead, cut it open and study it. Fine I have no problem with that. I just wish it wasn't dead.
Also, why must we keep demonizing the poor animal by calling it a "monster". Its just an animal, no more of a monster than a shark or you and I.
I would like to know, if this squid was still alive, would it be possible to still somehow study it in its natural environment ? Is it possible to do what they did with Keiko the killer whale, tracking its movement, etc.
Thanks.
Steve O'Shea
Apr 08, '03, 7:00pm
Dear squidhavefeelings2, and anyone else who feels the same (including myself).
Immediately following any press release of this nature I am bombarded with mail, most positive, a few quite vitriolic. I will post some of these messages separately (new thread; removing traces of person's identities) and discuss them; it is important that these concerns are addressed (more so than responding to people who say congratulations on the new find), because I have the same point of view.
Unfortunately it is impossible to attend to this today, but I'll try and do so tomorrow. Squidhavefeelings2, most of the work I do is geared towards conservation of the marine environment and its species - not collection of squid specimens, self promotion or the sensationalisation of specimen finds (like this present 'colossal squid'). However, we do need to know what is down there in order to protect it - otherwise we are operating blind. Protective measures proposed in ignorance (of full biological information) could prove to be inadequate to preserve or conserve either representative or sensational environments/species - thus offering no protection to the species and its environment. When our knowledge is in its infancy, as it is with this beast and the environment within which it lives, we must make a compromise between specimen/information collection and conservation/preservation. First we need to gather information (through acquisition of specimens [usually dead commercial fisheries bycatch that would otherwise be discarded], which we then follow by (in the ideal world) identification of appropriate 'no go/leave alone' marine protected areas (MPAs - otherwise known as reserves)).
I will respond in more detail soon.
Kindest
Steve
TaningiaDanae
Apr 08, '03, 7:26pm
I felt sad when I read the story.
They should not have killed the squid by gaffing at it and dragging it on board, indiscriminately killing the animal. Now that its dead, cut it open and study it. Fine I have no problem with that. I just wish it wasn't dead.
Also, why must we keep demonizing the poor animal by calling it a "monster". Its just an animal, no more of a monster than a shark or you and I.
I would like to know, if this squid was still alive, would it be possible to still somehow study it in its natural environment ? Is it possible to do what they did with Keiko the killer whale, tracking its movement, etc.
Thanks.
Hiya SHF2 --
I can understand your concern regarding this, and perhaps it would be better for one of our resident teuthologists, like Steve-O', Kat, Richard Ellis, or James Wood to field these questions. (Yo, guys, where are you now that we need you?) But I will offer my :twocents: as a laysquid anyway.
Unfortunately, the first reaction of humans to Big Squids for the past few millennia has been fear. There are so many cases of Archis in their death throes at the surface, being harpooned and otherwise tormented by people in boats, and then when the poor creature tried to defend itself by lashing out with its arms, being slaughtered as a "dangerous monster." To paraphrase a line from THE ELEPHANT MAN, who are the real "monsters" in those scenarios?
So if the animal in question was an Archi, the fishermen would have been totally unjustified in their actions. Letting it go, and reporting the incident to the local marine research lab, would have been a saner and more humane reaction.
That being said, we are not talking about an Archi here. From what I have read about recent studies, Messie is an aggressive, powerful creature with sharp hooks on its arms, which it has no compunctions about using if threatened -- or hungry. I don't know the exact circumstances of its capture, but if I saw something huge in my net flailing an array of big scimitars in my direction, my first reaction would have been to kill it too, before I or my companions ended up on the business end of those weapons. It isn't as though the fishermen were out to net a humongous ceph, they were apparently just catching fish for a livelihood and found themselves face-to-face with a very vicious and scary-looking surprise (more so than an Archi would have been).
Had it been a research vessel on the lookout for a Colossal Squid, the crew would have (hopefully) been prepared for the danger of being skewered alive, and would have worked out a way of capturing a CS with a minimum amount of danger to either the Squid or themselves.
Regarding Keiko the Killer Whale -- we're talking "apples and oranges" here. Orcas ("urban legends" to the contrary notwithstanding) have never once been known to attack humans, except in clear cases of self-defense. In fact, like many other cetaceans, Orcas seem to sense when a biped approaching them has benevolent intentions, and they respond in a similarly benevolent manner. The same remarkable intelligence (perhaps close to that of primates!) that makes them Angels of Death to pinnipeds and great whales, enables them to relate empathetically to our own species.
Similarly, Archis -- though not exactly the Brightest Crayons in the Pack (if I'm not mistaken, Steve-O' says their brains weigh about 3 grams) -- are apparently placid animals, and perhaps it would be within the realm of possibility to tag them without risk to their delicate physiology. Messies are another story entirely. According to Steve-O', they are likely to slash or bite first, and ask questions later. IMHO it wouldn't be easy to get close enough to a Messie to tag it, and I doubt that its molluscan body chemistry would survive "darting" with anesthetics as one would do with a land mammal like a big cat or primate (Steve-O' or Kat, please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this stuff.)
I am moved by your compassion for living things, regardless of how alien their appearance. It's just that I don't think the fishermen would have been able to keep a pissed-off Mesonychoteuthis alive either on or next to their boat, without incurring serious injury to the creature and/or themselves.
I trust that the TONMO teuthologist contingent can pick up the subject from here!
Blessings -- and stay as kindhearted as you are!
Your bioluminescent benthic buddy,
The Tanster
TaningiaDanae
Apr 08, '03, 7:28pm
Dang it, Steve-O', you read my mind again! :o
Me
Tintenfisch
Apr 08, '03, 8:28pm
Similarly, Archis -- though not exactly the Brightest Crayons in the Pack (if I'm not mistaken, Steve-O' says their brains weigh about 3 grams) --
LOL
Actually the brain is about 20g, but most of that (I'd guess about 3/4) is made up of the two optic lobes controlling Archi's extraordinary eyes.
TaningiaDanae
Apr 08, '03, 8:51pm
LOL
Actually the brain is about 20g, but most of that (I'd guess about 3/4) is made up of the two optic lobes controlling Archi's extraordinary eyes.
So what was all that "Architeuthis dope" stuff about? Slander! Libel!
:x :squid:
TaningiaDanae
Apr 08, '03, 9:59pm
Taningia,
First Kat gets a marriage proposal, and now I've been embraced by a strobing teuthid. What next?
Ummm, lessee.... maybe Kat gets a marriage proposal from a strobing teuthid?
Growing up in Providence likely pre-disposed me to appreciate Lovecraft's work.
Ah, Providence! Several years ago my husband and I visited there as part of a trip through New England. That leg of the trip was an HPL pilgrimage -- we went to the Swans Point Cemetery to pay our respects at the new (back then) grave marker with the inscription "I Am Providence"; following that, we went to Angell Street to take a photo of the Ancestral Homestead; and we wound up the day with a spaghetti-and-meatballs dinner at a restaurant in the Federal Hill district.
It is a truly beautiful city -- I only wish we'd had more time to spend there.
"The Sea Raiders" didn't plot to take over the world, but they did eat some people.
D'oh! It was so long ago that all I remembered was the diabolically intelligent Octos.
Are you familiar with the works of HPL's close friend Frank Belknap Long? He was a fine horror and sci-fi writer who also wrote a memoir called H.P. LOVECRAFT: DREAMER ON THE NIGHTSIDE. My husband and I had the privilege of knowing Frank in his later years, when he and his rather weird wife Lyda occupied a shabby apartment in the Chelsea area of Manhattan.
Anyway, in FBL's fine anthology RIM OF THE UNKNOWN, he wrote a very ceph-y story called "The Man With A Thousand Legs," which is both poignant and disturbing. Very worthwhile, as are most of his other stories. Frank was a very sweet and very talented gentleman, who like his friend HPL unfortunately spent the final years of his life in poverty.
This might be a topic better suited to Kat's Pop-culture forum, but it is true that artists occasionally anticipate science before it becomes science. Benchley's breaching, aerial-gaping Great White comes to mind. Many informed people scoffed at the notion of a white shark getting airborne and sticking its head out of the water, behaviors now familiar to anyone who watches "Shark Week."
As I noted in an earlier post, this late-breaking news might vindicate Peter Benchley's sensational description of the "squid from hell" in BEAST. He just has to make sure that in future editions of the novel Colossal Squid is substituted for Giant Squid, and Mesonychoteuthis for Architeuthis.
"Archie-toothless" still doesn't have any talons, however.
"Archie-toothless" -- love it! :)
Taningia, Dark Goddess of the Brooding Reef
Bald Evil
Apr 09, '03, 12:45am
I think Peter Benchley has some kind of side deal going with Poseidon (or some other seagoing deity). He always seems to get the inside scoop on deep sea beasties before the rest of the world does. Let's hope Stephen Sommers (who wrote and directed "Deep Rising") doesn't have the same deal! :shock:
Yes, I loved that movie!
WhiteKiboko
Apr 09, '03, 1:44am
I think Peter Benchley has some kind of side deal going with Poseidon
i still think jules verne had some impressive visions that he's gonna pay for, or he's had some built up "spiritual currency".....either way the view from the sidelines aint bad..... :)
Fujisawas Sake
Apr 13, '03, 4:07am
Hello Everyone!
SHF2: I know what you mean about alien animals and compassion for life.
My favorite place in the universe is the Monterey Bay Aquarium. (My second favorite is the Trapezium - Four newly formed stars in the Orion Nebula... but anyway...). One day a woman asked me why I so enjoyed a place where animals were held "prisoner" (i.e. in captivity). I pondered this for a moment, and replied that as human beings, we only truly react to what we can really experience for ourselves through our senses.
My response:
Face it; television isn't REAL... As much as so-called "reality TV" is a mockery of real-life, people know that its not "real", and therefore won't react as strongly as something they can really see with their own eyes, or touch with their own hands. We want the "real". Places like wild animal parks and aquaria bring life to us, and while it may seem like a sacrifice on the part of the animals in question, it makes us truly aware of their existence.
Nevertheless, cruelty should be out of the question... always...
What I'm trying to say is stick by your guns. Its good to embrace new life instead of demonizing it. Keep the faith! 8)
Peace on the homeworld,
John
Fujisawas Sake
Apr 13, '03, 4:14am
Oh, and I'm still lobbying for the name Tyrannoteuthis osheatintenfischtonmoii...
Of course, Linnaeus is probably spinning in his grave by now...
Inari's Blessing,
John
Bald Evil
Apr 13, '03, 3:18pm
He started spinning when they named that dinosaur after Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits.
He started spinning when they named that dinosaur after Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits.
HA! I remember that... too funny. Because they were listening to Dire Straits while doing their digs...
squidhavefeelings2
Apr 14, '03, 1:45pm
Dr. O'Shea, et al.
I am still checking here from time to time hoping to see more of Dr. O'Shea's views on this Colossal Squid. I was glad to see his initial answer to my earlier post saying "most of the work he does is geared towards conservation of the marine environment and its species - not collection of squid specimens, self promotion or the sensationalisation of specimen finds (like this present 'colossal squid')".
I also have more questions and comments but first a disclaimer that I'm a novice when it comes to squid and marine animals, i.e. I don't know what an Archis or a Messie is.
Given this hugh Colossal Squid is rare (or rarely found/seen), should it be protected ? Should it and could it be listed as an endangered specie to be protected ?. I believe Dr Rod Hay (New Zealand) is CITES Regional Representative for Oceania.
Is he active on any of the Forum here ?
thanks and cheers.
Tintenfisch
Apr 14, '03, 5:27pm
Sorry about the jargon! Archi is Architeuthis (the giant squid) and I guess Mesonychoteuthis (the colossal squid) had been dubbed Messie - apparently we at TONMO are on more than a first-name basis with these guys. :)
As far as rarity goes - we know that Mesonychoteuthis makes up about 77% by weight of bull sperm whales' diet in the Antarctic (Clarke 1980), so it'll be a pretty common species - we just don't have the opportunity to see them very often. Of course, the more we study them (ideally in situ of course) the better we can gauge how common they are, and what the best conservation strategy would be in the event that they do require protection.
:meso:
REFERENCE
Clarke, M.R. 1980. Cephalopoda in the diet of sperm whales of the southern hemisphere and their bearing on sperm whale biology. Discovery Reports 37: 1–324.
Fujisawas Sake
Apr 15, '03, 1:11am
SHF2
Read my post "IKA-ology"... I would like your take on it, if you don't mind.
Tintenfisch,
I thought "Messie" was a cousin of "Nessie" :lol:
O-hiyo Ikariya!
John
Steve O'Shea
Apr 15, '03, 3:10am
SFH2 and others, I've started up a new thread on the 'Physiology and Biology' board to address your conservation issues. Drop in there some time and post away to your hearts content; am low on time and energy right now to post anything detailed, but it will happen (so will Xmas, they tell me).
O
squidhavefeelings2
Apr 15, '03, 11:17am
Fuji S,
Have not been to Monterey Bay Aquarium, not familiar with Trapezium but I hear OGLE-TR-56b is an exiting found. Near where I am we have the National Aquarium in Baltimore although end of April, I'm going to Cancun for a training/retreat for a week. Hope I have time for a reef dive or two at the Cozumel. Jacques Cousteau was there in '61 and said it was the best place in the world to dive. This will be my first time there. I hear there's a Cave of the Sleeping Sharks there where divers sometimes claim to have "petted" the sleeping sharks. Not sure if I have the nerves for that though. Hey can any of the BIG squid, Archie or Messie, be found here near the reef or is it too warm ?
Also, I must admit I have a slice of the ocean in my living room. I have a reef aquarium with live rock, corals and fish (no anemone). So I agree with you when you said "we only truly react to what we can really experience for ourselves through our senses".
As for TV, I confess. I watch too much of it. But I try to watch the good stuff like National Geographic, with the Tivo (digital recorder) its easier to program and filter out the garbage and commercials.
Steve O,
I will check out the 'Physiology and Biology' board as suggested. thanks.
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flaggermus
Apr 22, '03, 1:17pm
hey guys, i don't know if anyone else has seen this, but steve and kat are on comedy central! the daily show with jon stewart did a little bit on the colossal. here's the link, if you guys are interested. i thought it was pretty sweet!
http://www.comedycentral.com/tv_shows/thedailyshowwithjonstewart/
click on the "intents and porpoises" video link. enjoy!
cheers,
berit
:notworth:
WhiteKiboko
Apr 22, '03, 1:42pm
how did i know.... it wasnt funny....what a big shock there.... hasnt been worth a spit since kilborne left..... pretty cool to see the clip of the hook rotating though....
maybe we can feed john stewart to a :meso:
Thanks for sharing that link, I've been looking for that! Unfortunately I can't seem to get it to load, though...
I disagree with Whitekiboko about Jon Stewart... I've LOL many times watching his show... At the same time, I'm all for feeding him to a colossal squid.
flaggermus
Apr 22, '03, 4:04pm
i don't know, it wasn't THAT bad. at least it made it on the show, right? that's worth something. it's the first time i've seen a family member on comedy central (that i know about).
still, i wonder what clever thing he'd say while being eaten...
:ammonite:
Tintenfisch
Apr 22, '03, 5:09pm
Arghhh, we can't open it either!! :evil:
i tried last night with no luck either :(
flaggermus
Apr 23, '03, 5:57pm
um, the only thing i can think of is for you guys to download realone player. that's what my roommate played it on. good luck!
(kat, where's the bird?)
cheers,
berit
:grad:
TaningiaDanae
Apr 23, '03, 8:45pm
IMHO the funniest part was the soundbyte portraying Steve-O' as a dour, super-serious pedant. ("It was almost as exciting as when he saw a really big horseshoe crab.") But that's because we know what a card-carrying lunatic he really is! :lol:
HA!! That was great! I can see Steve exclaiming just as Jon suggested... :lol: :lol:
On a side note, I despise RealOne Player. Firstly, it's near impossible to find the *truly* free version of the software on their site, and secondly, you have to painstaking install it to ensure it doesn't hijack your entire PC... But it was worth the effort to see Steve and Kat in that forum! :D