Killed by Squid?

[CementPizza]

Hello everyone. I am having an argument with a friend of mine. He says there is no evidence of anyone ever being killed by a squid. He refuses to put any credibility of the storys I found about a WWII ship that was sunk and it's survivors were attacked by squid an possibly one was killed. He also doesn't accept that the Mexican fishermen are ever attacked and killed by Humboldts.

He challenged me to find the name of ONE person killed by a squid. I haven't found one yet. Can any of you all help get the name of ONE person killed by a squid.

Thanks.
CP.

[joel_ang]

I'm not too sure about killings but there is a video somewhere of a humoldt attacking a diver whose name seems to have slipped my mind at the moment.

:welcome: to TONMO.com!!

[Clem]

Hello CementPizza,

:welcome:

There are no authenticated reports of any fatal attacks on people committed by squid. In the 1991 movie "Mission of the Shark," about the 1945 sinking of the U.S.S. Indianapolis, the film's creators made the wholly unsupported claim that Navy crewmen were attacked by squid. There was also a documentary about sea monsters, hosted by Arthur C. Clarke, in which the late Dr. Frederick Alldrich made the (again) wholly unsupported claim that survivors of a transport sunk off the coast of Newfoundland had been attacked by giant squid. Peter Benchley told a similar tale in his squid novel "Beast," but, again, there's no proof that anything of the sort ever happened.

Dosidicus gigas, the "jumbo squid," is a very aggressive animal, and several of them grabbed an underwater cameraman some years ago during a night dive off Baja. (Joel, I think it was Alex Kerstitch...not sure about the spelling of his last name) Mexican fishermen who ply those waters are justly worried about falling into the water with them, but there haven't been any authenticated maulings or fatalities. Put simply: if it ain't on film or in the science journals, it's purely anecdotal.

There is a famous tale of a giant squid, Architeuthis dux, that "attacked" a small boat off Newfoundland in 1873/74. The occupants had approached the (presumably) unhealthy animal while it floated on the surface, poked it, and were surprised to find it still alive, whereupon it grabbed the vessel and struck the gunwhale with its beak. One of the occupants chopped off a tentacle, which served as proof of the encounter. For a full account of the incident and its various retellings, you and your friend might check out "The Search for the Giant Squid," by Richard Ellis (available in paperback from Penguin books).

It's possible that a big squid could kill a human. A few species are big and aggressive enough to pull it off, but they would not have many occasions on which to do so. The current and unusual presence of large numbers of aggressive jumbo squid off the western coast of the U.S. does make me wonder if a surfer might not get nipped in the near future, but that's just my own bloody-minded fantasy.

Thanks for posting. There's a ton of information here about these animals. Hope you find much of interest.

Cheers,

Clem

[um...]

What about those Korean(?) dudes that were killed by the noxious fumes released by rotting squid? Does that count? Did that even happen, or is it finally time to stop mixing codeine and tequila?

[Clem]

What about those Korean(?) dudes that were killed by the noxious fumes released by rotting squid? Does that count? Did that even happen, or is it finally time to stop mixing codeine and tequila?
Um...

Aha, good on you for remembering that story. Maybe that does count. There ought to be a link to that news item somewhere around here.

:chillpil: + :beer: = :canada:

[Jean]

The diver attacked by Humbolts was on Incredible Suckers, his name was Mike........er.........Degries, Devreis.......something (sorry I can't remember) he was (& I assume still is!) an underwater photographer and filmmaker.


Haven't heard of anyone actually being killed by a squid tho'.

Cheers

Jean

[Gaetan P.]

i thougt the survivors of the uss indy were attacked by sharks?

[Clem]

i thougt the survivors of the uss indy were attacked by sharks?
Hello Gaetan,

Right you are. That event has been a case study for shark attack researchers for decades. Until "Mission of the Shark," I'd never heard anything about squid attacking the survivors. Hmmm. Perhaps I should run some searches for Indianapolis crew and memorial sites to see if any of the men who were aboard ever mentioned squid attacks subsequent to the torpedoeing.

Jean, I found a description of the Humboldt mugging written by one of the other crew on that trip. Chock full of incident. Click here to read Howard Hall's account. (http://www.howardhall.com/stories/mugged.html) The fellow mugged by three squid was Alex Kerstitch. Sadly, he's passed away.

CementPizza, where did you hear/read/see the story about squid grabbing shipwrecked sailors?

Cheers,

Clem

[erich orser]

Jean,

The proper spelling is Mike DeGruy. I just saw him at the Clyde Roper lecture at the Santa Barbara Natural History Museum last month. He was the underwater photographer who filmed Incredible Suckers. I had to go check out Nature on Google to get the spelling right - I wasn't sure either.

Incidentally, did anybody see the special where Clyde Roper went down in the Sea of Cortez in a shark cage after they had baited the water to attract Humboldts? One of them - about 25-30 inches long, if I recall - actually managed to get in the cage with him. Clyde swam to the top of the cage, while the increasingly upset Humboldt explored the bottom, trying to find a way out. Finally, after spotting the way it came in, it managed to exit, but not before darting over to bite Clyde on the leg, almost as an afterthought. When Clyde surfaced, he was ecstatic, like someone who has just had a religious experience. This squid did not seem to bite him out of anything more than annoyance. I've heard the legends about man-killing Humboldts for years, but yes, it appears to all be anecdotal. Maybe an experiment could be done in this area... hmmm... maybe they could be trained... :madsci: :sink:

Erich

[Snafflehound]

so unlike the common house fly, the humboldt squid is smart enough to go out the hole it came in by?

[myopsida]

find the name of ONE person killed by a squid. I haven't found one yet.

You won't find any ...just as you won't find any names of the people dolphins push out to sea . . . . .

[Clem]

You won't find any ...just as you won't find any names of the people dolphins push out to sea . . . . .

:lol:

CementPizza,

I found a discussion forum for "In Harm's Way," Doug Stanton's book about the Indianapolis disaster. The squid issue came up there, and Stanton's assistant weighed in. Click here to see the initial query and the replies. (http://www.ussindianapolisinharmsway.com/forum/_disc2/00000159.htm) Some of the respondents mention some apocryphal squid attacks. Material for more sleuthing, anyhow.

Cheers,

Clem

[CementPizza]

Myopsida

Ok. Now are you saying that it doesn't happen? Or that it does happen and we just don't have the names?

I know these things would be inconsistant and unusual.

[CementPizza]

Oh, I also want to say thanks to everyone so far. I love squids. Before I was in kindergarten I used to talk my mom in to buying them for me at the grocery store so I could disect them. (They were dead, they were in the sea-food section). I have always had and interest, but alas, I never became a squid professional. Hahaha.

Nice to meet everyone.

Mark

[mr_goodbomb]

No one ever has proof of the attacks because no one lives to tell the tale.

:wink:

But really, I heard recently some man was attacked by three of them... something on Discovery channel, but I can't find any info about it now.

[cuttlegirl]

There is this article, but the two scientists seem to disagree over the "personality" of a Humboldt...
http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/issues/Issue.03-10-2005/cover/Article.cover_story

[bigGdelta]

Talk about mixed messages. They are not dangerous but one will approach you while another attacks you from behind.
And speaking of the Clarke series, I seem to remember an interview with a survivor of the WWII incident who showed scars supposedly from a squid attack and hearing speculation that the bright red Mae West life jackets were to blame for attracting the squid.

[erich orser]

The apocryphal incident I remember involved a man interviewed in England in the late 1950s who survived having his British vessel torpedoed by the German raider Santa Cruz off the East coast of South America in 1943. This man (now conveniently deceased) still had "raised ulcers" on his leg from the sucker cups that violently groped him after dragging his comrades down into the inky depths. This was retold in Frank W. Lane's "Kingdom of the Octopus" which I once purchased during a visit to Scripps Institute in 1981. Alas, this book has long since disappeared.

Somehow, like a lot of what I read - wide-eyed and impressionable - in Lane's book, this seems a little unlikely. Still, it was a great read when I was eleven.

[erich orser]

Here's one for Greg:

Was there a German raider in the South Atlantic called Santa Cruz?

[monty]

...speculation that the bright red Mae West life jackets were to blame for attracting the squid.

I'm pretty sure that no cephalopod big enough to interact with a human is believed to have color vision, though... and red would look dark to most cephs anyway... (firefly squid photoreceptors peak respond at 484, 470, and 500 nm, while human red cones peak at 560-565nm, green cones at 535-540, and blue cones at 430-440, so the only cephs that can see color at all see it in the range between human green and human blue-- of course, I don't have a ref on the width of the freq response, but still...) I suppose, now that I think about it, since no one has ever seen messy eyes, no one's ever looked to see what photopigments they have, but it's unlikely that any squid not closely related to firefly squids will turn out to have color vision...

[TaningiaDanae]

Great discussion, gang! Some excellent points were made (e.g., the fact that large cephs lack color perception, thus refuting the "red life jacket" incident).... though thankfully I don't think there will ever be an end to this fascinating controversy.

I am especially grateful to Clem-san for bringing up the Newfoundland incident as described in Dr. Ellis' book. One of my longtime pet peeves has been the general public's tendency to demonize large cephs as "dangerous" or "vicious" to humans. While I don't doubt the aggressive nature of Humboldts (though Dr. Gilly and others have experienced the more placid side of these critters), I get very annoyed with those who use cephs' natural survival mechanisms as an argument for their allegedly homicidal tendencies.

For example: In the Newfoundland anecdote, the "monster" of the story -- as Clem-san aptly points out -- was in reality a sick, dying animal, stranded on the surface (far from its familiar benthic environment), and undoubtedly in a state of pain or even panic. Imagine being in this vulnerable position, and then finding oneself senselessly attacked by a couple of small, aggressive, two-legged beings intent upon thrusting harpoons repeatedly into one's already agonized body. Wouldn't self-defense be the most natural -- in fact, the only rational -- reaction?

So, who were the real "monsters"?

I strongly suspect that if any other alleged Architeuthis "attacks" could be verified, further delving into the stories would uncover initial provocation (either deliberate or unintentional) by the human or humans involved.

I have also heard anecdotes about GPOs drowning divers by pulling off their masks and attached breathing apparatus. But marine biologists go on to explain that these drownings were in fact the tragic result of the GPOs' insatiable curiosity about unfamiliar objects, using the tactile input from their suckers to gain environmental information. Despite the occasionally lethal results of this behavior towards divers, it could hardly be classified as an "attack".

(I've noticed, in more than one nature show, that experienced divers gently but firmly guide cephs' arms away from their masks while being "frisked" by the critters)

I understand that in last year's renowned "first contact" film of an Archi, the big dude launches a head-on attack on the camera. But was it an attack, or just another example of rather heavy-handed but innocuous curiosity on the part of a ceph? And even if it were an attack, it was on a piece of machinery, not a human. I'd be interested in learning more about this.

As for aggression in Messies.... well, the jury's still out on that. Or is it? Inquiring minds want to know!

Looking forward to more on this thread,
Tani

[Graeme]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Humboldts are just naturally a very inquisitive squid, and love to investigate, and when something THAT big comes over to you and starts playing with your mask and tank, you begin to get nervous and do silly things that will inevitably agitate the animal. Obviously it's going to retaliate if you do soomething like hit out at it! There was a programme on over here last year (I missed it:cry: but was told lots about it!), in that they tested the animal by NOT doing anything threatening when it came over, and it was fine! It was only when the divers begin panicking that it shows agressive behaviour, like any animal really!

Graeme

[CapnNemo]

OK, the WWII squid story is certainly in the book Arthur C Clarke's Mysterious World. I have an old battered copy and will find the full quote later for you. It is, however, the only place I have seen the story.

Which suggests a great deal of 'itchy chin' as we say in British playgroundspeak.

:sink:

[Graeme]

or Beardies!

Graeme

[Nancy]

Is this story of GPOs causing divers' deaths by pulling of the facemask substantiated anywhere? - it's the first I've heard of it, but I've read a lot of accounts of encounters between divers and GPOs.

Nancy

[CapnNemo]

Good evening all. I have found the section in Arthur C Clarke's Mysterious World (paperback, 1980 Fontana Press, London)

The Kraken
But men have seen such creatures, and indeed been devoured by them. The exigencies of the Second World War took ships to waters round the globe which are otherwise seldom frequented. Lieutenants Rolandson, Davidson RN and Lieutenant R E Grimani Cox of the Indian Army, were caught by a German raider flying the Japanese flag in a remote part of the South Atlantic. After firing on the ship til she caught fire, the raider gave all aboard five minutes to take to the boats. The three officers found themselves left with a small raft and nine companions, taking turns to cling to the raft or sit upon it.
They were faced with all the traditional nightmares of the ship-wrecked; a burning sun, a terrible thirst, attacks from Portuguese men-of-war, which Lieutenant Cox said 'stung like a million bees', and then, on the third day, the sharks appeared to pick off the wounded and those who had gone mad with thirst. After three more days, the sharks suddenly disappeared - not a relief but a prelude to the most appalling moment of all. Slowly, beside the raft, a gigantic shape appeared with huge tentacles. For some time it seemed to stand off and contemplate its strategy. Then, deliberately, it reached out onto the raft and grabbed one of the Indian survivors 'hugging him like a bear'. Cox and the others made a futile attempt to tear the tentacles away, Cox himself suffering several sucker wounds, but the creature slowly took the Indian away. Apparently one man sufficed, for Cox and the two navy officers, picked up by a Spanish ship, lived to tell the tale. (p106-107)

There are no references for the story given and a cursory google search brings up nothing, not even a reference to Mysterious World. This smells more of fish than squid to me.

[Graeme]

It could have been Cthulhu?:grin: :wink:

I think my dad might have had this book, but it disappeared a LONG time ago. I seem to rememebr that familiar French woodcut pitrure being in it, as well as possibly a photo of a large squid. If I rememebr it was about the normal novel sized, softback, not one of these large hardbacks you usually get on the unexplained. does this description sound valid?

Graeme

[CapnNemo]

It could have been Cthulhu?:grin: :wink:

I think my dad might have had this book, but it disappeared a LONG time ago. I seem to rememebr that familiar French woodcut pitrure being in it, as well as possibly a photo of a large squid. If I rememebr it was about the normal novel sized, softback, not one of these large hardbacks you usually get on the unexplained. does this description sound valid?

Graeme

that sounds very valid. Add in a golden crystal skull with a shiny eye and stonehenge on the cover and yer laughing!


:lol: see?

[Shadow Mantis]

I seem to remember a show on the Discovery Channel called Killer Squids. It explained how a Humbolt Squid attacked someone.

[gonetobaja]

Hello everyone. I am having an argument with a friend of mine. He says there is no evidence of anyone ever being killed by a squid. He refuses to put any credibility of the storys I found about a WWII ship that was sunk and it's survivors were attacked by squid an possibly one was killed. He also doesn't accept that the Mexican fishermen are ever attacked and killed by Humboldts.

He challenged me to find the name of ONE person killed by a squid. I haven't found one yet. Can any of you all help get the name of ONE person killed by a squid.

Thanks.
CP.

CP,

Although your friend has a right to question the reality of it, he is wrong.

I dont have the name of the fisherman that was killed but I do know that one was killed in Santa Rosalia.

But dont take my word for it....:roll:

The only way he will really know the reality of the situation is to see for himself, and I happen to know just the guy to take him there.

Me :goofysca:

This is the clip that I shot with my dive team leader Mr. Scott Cassell on a photo shoot for Outside Magazine. On one shot you will see a squid come in from about 25 feet at full speed with tentacles first in a point. He comes straight in and grabs Scotts fin. They are smart, a diver on SCUBA can go in and safely interact, however a fisherman who falls out of his boat at night is in trouble. Our best footage that we have on squid attack is going to be released in a DVD in March. The first showing will be at the www.ncups.org meeting on March the 10th in San Francisco.

Yes I have personaly been grabbed, but not bitten by a Humboldt squid.

See it with your own eyes? Pay attention at 1:18sec.

http://209.242.151.5/seawolves/DancingWithDemons.wmv

If you would like more information on diving with giant humboldt squid than please check out our website. www.seawolvesunltd.com

You tell him that when he is done diving with me he will believe all of the stories.:bonk:

For those of you who want to dive with the squid and not get touched we have a special squid cage. I believe we are the only ones in the world who can take you to the world of the squid and then back alive.:bugout:

By the way, I am an avid aquarium person with a 125gal full reef. I see other octopuss all of the time. I am a full time guide to the Enchanted Islands in Baja CA
www.gonetobaja.com

I never put them in my aquarium because they eat everything but the coral.

Hope you enjoy the clip, feel free to ask any questions.

GTB

[monty]

This is the clip that I shot with my dive team leader Mr. Scott Cassell on a photo shoot for Outside Magazine. On one shot you will see a squid come in from about 25 feet at full speed with tentacles first in a point. He comes straight in and grabs Scotts fin. They are smart, a diver on SCUBA can go in and safely interact, however a fisherman who falls out of his boat at night is in trouble. Our best footage that we have on squid attack is going to be released in a DVD in March. The first showing will be at the www.ncups.org meeting on March the 10th in San Francisco.

Yes I have personaly been grabbed, but not bitten by a Humboldt squid.

See it with your own eyes? Pay attention at 1:18sec.

http://209.242.151.5/seawolves/DancingWithDemons.wmv


That is really cool! If I get a chance to get down to Baja sometime soon, that looks really fun! Of course, I don't see the price on the web site, so maybe I'll have to wait until I make my first million or something (since there's a $500 deposit, I can extrapolate that it's not dirt-cheap, but the web site sure comes across as a very professional operation, so I expect it's a fair price for a great service... )

One question: in the video, it looks like there are clouds of something in the water... I'm assuming that's because the squids are inking, but it looks different from what I've seen before-- it looks like the squid is both grabbing the diver and inking, while I was under the impression that squids' inking was almost always part of an escape behavior, so it seems very weird for a squid to be both grabbing the diver and inking at the same time... it doesn't look like the diver's doing much to stop the squid from leaving if it feels like it... am I interpreting it correctly, or is something else going on?

Thanks for the cool video!

[gonetobaja]

What happens is that the squid will come in and grab you. If you just kick or punch back then they let go. If you grab the squid when he grabs you then he gets scared and shoots ink.

"Oh no, this big bubble blowing monster has my leg! I guess its not edible!"

Of course this works on the ones up to 4 or 5 feet. The big ones are a different story. You must remember that these animals are as big as you in the water. They are faster, more agile, and more equipped to do damage. They are not afraid of people in the water. Sometimes when they shoot ink I think they are trying to just deploy a decoy to throw off their prey, then they reverse direction and grab you.

To be honest, Im not really sure about all of the squid behavior. More research needs to be done on them and this is one of our goals.

One thing that I have found is that if you act like prey in the water (dont move or offer any resistance, or panic and swim in a retreat from the animal) then you will get inspected for the food chain. If you act aggressive when they come close it helps to keep them off. They are less likely to think of you as a prey item. This works with Squids, and Sharks.

Of course they are wild animals so for me to predict their behavior is a joke really.

The price of the trip is 2,200$. IT is 5 days and includes all of your transportation, meals, and hotels from Loreto to the dive site. 3 days of diving with the squid. boat costs, tanks and video work.

We take 4 divers at a time and film the whole thing in HD and give you a copy.

We do both cage and armor dives.

GTB
www.seawolvesunltd.com

[monty]

Thanks for the info... it does sound like a good deal, considering it's all expenses included, although it's too much to say "sign me up" just now-- I better start saving! And maybe practicing taking an aggressive posture-- I know when facing mean dogs & such I stand tall, stomp my feet, and speak in a loud, firm voice, but it seems like none of that works on SCUBA... I guess turning to face the squid, maintaining eye contact, and making large gestures is the sort of thing that works?

Do they ever get relaxed enough that they will enjoy being petted yet neither be trying to eat you nor run away? I know that sometimes octopuses get to that point, and I saw some documentary on giant cuttlefish that said they have that response sometimes...

Another thing I saw in the video that surprised me was that when the squid goes after the camera directly, it looked like there was some sort of membrane with "mini-arms" around the beak area... I had never seen that sort of anatomical feature on a cephalopod before... most pictures I've seen of squid beaks just have the buccal mass around like a knot of muscle... I wonder if that's a feature I had just never noticed before, or if most squid species don't have it...

[WhereMyFishes99]

um i have heard of people in mexico fishing for squid get attacked..nothing fatal but missing fingers and such..

[SoulFish]

http://209.242.151.5/seawolves/DancingWithDemons.wmv

Armor wearing diver with giant squid

[chrono_war01]

Nice...that was awesome *starts saving money*