Hi everyone,

How do you keep your tanks clean? I'm about 3/4 of the way through my cycle and I'm getting detritus and algae on my sand. The usual snails and crabs I would use for a clean-up crew seem like they will be easy pickings for my future octopus. Does a gravel vacuum work on sand (I'm used to carbonate gravel--I would expect sand would get sucked right up!).

Dan

I don't have a ceph in my tank yet, but like you I have been looking into cleaning crews.

Others on the forum have stated that bristle stars are left alone so I have 2 and I plan on trying a sand-agatateing (sp?) star to keep the substrate healthy.

I hope to introduce a sea hare species that I have had great luck with in my reef tank. It does not ink and is strictly vegitarian. It will either be great or a great snack;)
I have to talk them into breeding again though....

I have also read here that pencil urchans can be used.

arn't those the sea slug things ew... :neutral:

Brittle stars, small urchins etc are great. I would hesitate to put in any form of sea slug as they can exude a toxic slime if they feel threatened (this include sea hares even if they don't ink). Can be pretty unpleasant. Some folks get away with snails too. It depends on the individual octi!

Cheers

Jean

I have a chocolate chip star in my tank and it cleans up some stuff but not all that much. I'm thinking most any kind of star would be okay -- although I have heard that certain stars will steal food from octopus. Any info about this?

Also I am wondering, will any urchins be ok? Can larger ones hurt an octopus? I don't know about urchins but I think they are very interesting! Would they clean up a lot of mess?

Thanks,

Robert

Urchins are ok as long as they arn't the spiny ones and you're not planning to decorate your tank with a lot of plants since urchines love plants. ( They has been cases where octo pluck urchine spines and eat them by drilling a hole into its shell with it radula thing.)

Hi Robert,

I like urchins, too, and I think you'd like having a pencil urchin. Get a small one and it will grow.

I believe Colin had a problem with a serpent star stealing his octos food (or at least, the octo thought it was stealing the food).

Actually, none of these are excellent on clean up. The best I've found is to put a few little shore shrimp in the tank. Mabye they'll get eaten, but probalby a few will escape. They are excellent scavengers. Bristleworms and amphipods help, too.

Nancy

by algae on the sand do you mean diatoms? If so they are just part of teh cycle and will go in time...

Get red brittle stars, they dont seem as bossy as the serpents... also, lots of bristke worms will appear in an octo tank if you have live rock and they do a great clean up job :)

Oh that's something I havn't heard of.

CW have a read about diatom algae, very interesting and normally happens in new tanks

I've had a suspision that they're diatoms. On the GARF page the description of diatoms is very similar to what I have (even though the pictures look nothing like it!). I don't remember having them when my other tank was cycling, however.

So when my cycle is over they will disappear? Since all of my sand is aragonite, I would presume my water is undersaturated with respect to silica. I'm more worried about it smothering my live rock in the mean time. My ammonia and nitrite levels have peaked, so I hope they get out of here soon.

Dan

it shouldnt affect the live rock, if it does it wont last long... dont beleive all the hype about diatoms spreading all over and never going away... let your tank cycle fully and it will use up the silicates... silicates often come in with the water...

we use sea cucumbers to keep the algae off the sand. Both the burrowing types and the surface ones. We don't have any trouble with them.

J

sea cucumbers sprayed their predators with sticky gut thingys don't they?

sea cucumbers sprayed their predators with sticky gut thingys don't they?


Yup! But the octi seems to leave them alone! We have NEVER had a problem. We even keep our bigger cuc's (Stichopus mollis) in our touch pools and a class of kids have'nt made them spray. I think it's energetically very expensive for them so it's a last response type reaction!

J

I've seen them have 2 types of sprays, one sticky goo strip and if the first one fails, the gut throw, the predatore gets to have a meal and the cucumber lives.

ours don't do the sticky goo stage, first they let water out of their bodies and go limp, like they've been dead for a month, if that fails THEN they do the gut throw!

J

hmmm....what kind of cucs would be ok for a 58 gal tank? or what kind of animals would be ok with my octo?

I once accidently kicked a sea cucumber a number of times underwater while scuba diving and it did the gutthrow on my fins.

hmmm....what kind of cucs would be ok for a 58 gal tank? or what kind of animals would be ok with my octo?


Having never kept a cucumber with an octopus, I wouldn't know, but as far as the other animals go: it really is up to each octopus...some eat snails, some don't...I've never had a problem with brittle stars, and a few tonmoers have had some luck with seahorses! It really depends so much on the octo's temperment, you have to kind of "feel" your way through...just part of the fun !
greg

cool thanks! what about nudibranchs? assuming my octo is pretty calm and cool in general...

As always, no, they are sometimes poisonnus and when they are stressed they make this really mad stuff in the water that kills octos. I think

thanks!

your welcome

I once accidently kicked a sea cucumber a number of times underwater while scuba diving and it did the gutthrow on my fins.
:yuck:

I probably would too!!! :lol:

J

Yesterday I put in 50 shore shrimp into my octo tank and let me just say, these will surely become food but in the meanwhile are being an INCREDIBLE clean up crew. I was shocked with how much of the algae they cleaned off the back of my tank in just one night. Despite them not being very attractive, I am really thinking about putting some of them in my reef tank just to clean up since they do such an awesome job.

I also put a 'pincushion urchin' in the tank. So far he is just kind of hiding! I think hes cool but I bought him without being 100% sure of compatibility. Anyone got any experience with these guys at all?

Robert

Hi Robert,

I found the same thing with those little shrimp. They do a wonderful job of scavenging. My adult bimac would eat 50 in one or two days, but there were always a few smart ones that survived.

Maybe they're not colorful or beautiful but they add movement and activity in an octo tank. I even adopted one as a pet and it was interesting to watch and feed. It had lost a pincer but the pincer eventually grew back.

About the urchin - tt's not so good to have an urchin with sharp spines because the octo can injure himself - the pencil urchin is the best.

Nancy

Pencil Urchin...hm...havn't seen those on for a while. Anyone seen them while scuba diving?

nope. while diving ive seen REALLY cool things though...i've dived quite a bit in La Jolla, CA and they just have the COOLEST animals. I've seen amazing Bimacs there that were pretty big, lots of nudibranchs, a giant sea bass (HUGE 400 lbs + and REALLY endangered), a harbour seal decided it would find its way into the canyon and kiss me on my arm, beautiful starfish and cucs as well as a breeding ground of live purple sand dollars...there must have been at least 200,000 of them in the most vibrant and beautiful purple i have ever seen...just my .02

If you find a ecxptionaly good day while diving in HK, you can expect about 20-25 feet visibilty, calm water and no large poisonus jellies.
You can see some awsome aggresive clown fish, large cucs and sea stars and some small fish. If you're lucky, you can see sting rays, sea turtles, large groupers, puffers, squid, octos, cuttles breams and flatfish. Edible stuff inculdes large scallops, welks and the large fish I was talking about if you have a spear gun or sharp pionty stakes. :wink: If you're really lucky, you might see a shark, dolphines or even the whale shark if your diving in the outlying islands. :shock:

Hi Robert,

I found the same thing with those little shrimp. They do a wonderful job of scavenging. My adult bimac would eat 50 in one or two days, but there were always a few smart ones that survived.

Maybe they're not colorful or beautiful but they add movement and activity in an octo tank. I even adopted one as a pet and it was interesting to watch and feed. It had lost a pincer but the pincer eventually grew back.

About the urchin - tt's not so good to have an urchin with sharp spines because the octo can injure himself - the pencil urchin is the best.

Nancy


I was hoping to find one at this store but didn't, but I really liked the looks of this guy. If the octopus tried to attack it maybe it would get hurt... but I hear that pencil urchins get to be like 12 inches. This seems a little crazy! If this one presents problems I will attempt a swap though

Haven't been able to tell if OCTAVIA has eaten any of the shrimp yet. Honestly, I haven't been able to tell if OCTAVIA is even still alive :(

Robert

Robert

IHaven't been able to tell if OCTAVIA has eaten any of the shrimp yet. Honestly, I haven't been able to tell if OCTAVIA is even still alive :(

Robert

Robert


A sad sad thought. I'm worried :neutral:

Well, my brown diatoms are disappearing and being placed by growing circles of pink. I trust they will be reabsorped too as the cycle completes.

My ammonia and nitrites have been continuing to drop, except for a small spike when I added a few critters--hermit crabs, shrimp and snails, perhaps first meals.

Dan

growing circles of pink? where? sounds like coraline algae to me (unless your substrate is pink of course?) Coralina is a &%%@#& to get rid of. Grazers don't like it cos it's full of calcium carbonate. We have to scrape it off of tank glass /acrylic. Which can be a pain cos a) it's hard to get off and b) can't use regular scrubbers on acrylic cos it scratches!

Hope it's not that!

Cheers

J

Scrubing the tank sounds like an awful lot to do.. :wink:

We who keep smaller tanks regard coralline algae as a plus. It's very pretty - I'm even letting some grow on the edges of the glass of my smaller aquarium as a "frame". It also comes in beautiful shades of lavender and purple, inspiring your octo to match the colors!

Nancy

sounds nice..hope some grows on my tank... :lol:

Two of the pink circles are growing in my oolitic sand, and a few tiny circles are starting to grow on the glass. Should I pull the sand out and start scraping the glass now to keep them from getting a beach-head? Or will these things go the way of my diatoms when my ammonia and nitrites finally hit zero?

Dan

welllllllllllll personally I'd get rid of the stuff! I guess it's OK on tank frames but once it's on the viewing surfaces it has to go! Also when it dies it just turns white!

Dan, our tanks have been on the go for around 74 years they're pretty stable now! And we still have coraline.....so it you don't want it you'll need to scrub. Your sand will possibly be OK

Cheers

J

Thanks Jean

wow, scrubing the tank..still sounds like an awful lot to do.
P.S: I've got this green alage/bacteria/seaweed thing on my tank! I hve no idea what it is and it just keeps coming back! #*$&$^&#*$!!!!!

OK, my coralline algae is taking over. Its been spreading rapidly across the sand. Every few days I "peel" the top layer of algae-consolidated sand off and throw it into a dry bucket for possible future retrieval, but it still grows back. Its started taking over one of my pieces of live rock, growing in pink mats.

My tank is cycled with 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and nitrate just barely registers on the test. I've got a couple hermit craps and a peppermint shrimp, and a couple margarita snails that never leave the glass.

Is there anything I can do to stop this onslaught? I was planning on buying a brittle star to help with some of the detritus, but I can't imagine him eating this stuff?

Dan

Hi Dan

Sounds like you've got a real bad "infestation" of coraline there! What's your lighting like? Coralines being a red alga don't need much light and if you've got a brightly lit tank it'll go nuts. This stuff must be getting nutrients from somewhere. How old are your test kits? The chemicals in them do have a finite life and they can give odd readings if they're old. Other than that more snails!! We keep a whole bunch of top snails, turbinids etc but we still have to scrape. Problem is coraline algae has the calcium carbonate in its cells to inhibit grazers, so snails etc have quite a hard time dealing with it. We also keep our lighting quite dim (a day working in the aquarium can feel a little like working in a cave!!!)

Sorry I can't be of more help

J

Are we sure this is coralline algae? - I've never had any form on the sand, although it will cover almost anything else: rocks, shells, snail shells, glass, etc.

Nancy

Coralines being a red alga don't need much light and if you've got a brightly lit tank it'll go nuts.


I'll think I'm gonna go turn on the lights now..
Wait, where's my flash light?!

Are we sure this is coralline algae? - I've never had any form on the sand, although it will cover almost anything else: rocks, shells, snail shells, glass, etc.

Nancy

I'm starting to wonder this, too. The stuff that's on the sand cements the grains together, which is presumably consistent with what a coralline algae would do. In a few spots where its particularly thick--especially on one of my pieces of live rock--it has pink wavy filaments coming off like you usually see with green algae. Its hard for me to imagine something calcareous waving with the current.

My test kit is a brand new FasTest kit from Aquarium Systems. The chemicals come in individual foil pouches. I still have my old Tetra kit that just expired. I'm using both for redundancy.

My light is on for 12 hours. I'm sure that's a culprit, and tonight I will cut the timer down to 8. I don't expect that will be an end-all? I was going to make a run to the LFS tonight. I'm planning on getting a brittle star and an army of crabs and snails. Its a little easier for me to spend for them now since I know it'll be at least another month before they become meals :)

Dan

Let's hope that what you bought helps :wink:

Lets hope so. Right now its only one one piece of live rock, so I like to consider this "early stage" prevention.

Dan

In my experience coralline can grow ANYWHERE!!! Especially if the sand is static. Dan you may want to think about adding some burrowers (burrowing worms etc) to keep your sand churned up. I would imagine a sea cuc would help there too. (We have worms, burrowing brittlestars, and sea cuc's in any tank that has sand)

Can you post a pic of the stuff???

Cheers

Jean

I know I've got a few burrowers in there, tiny brittlestars and live rock hitch-hikers, but not an amount proportionate to the size of the tank. I've also been focused on moving burrowers that I see into my refugium's DSB. I'll see what I can get at the pet store tonight.

One of my housemates has a digital camera, so hopefully I can have some pics up tomorrow.

Dan

BTW Coralline can have an erect phase, although it doesn't move with the current, tis a lot more "tufty" maybe there's more than one alga in there .......or I could be completely off base!

J

OK, I finally got a picture of the stuff in my tank. I apologize if its slightly blurry.

You can see that it tends to grow up as well as out, in the form of filaments. I've heard of people getting algae in areas where the water isn't moving, however from the motion of the filaments I know there's plenty of current here.

Here's what I've done so far to inhibit growth:

a. reduced light from 12 hours a day to 8 hours a day.
b. purchased some sifters and burrowers: a serpent star and 10 large nassarius snails
c. occasionally I'll stick my hand in and mix-up the sand (the red stuff comes through again overnight)

My levels are all still good. I read on some reef bulletin board that levels can look good because the algae is using up what would otherwise show up as excess ammonia and nitrite.

My next course of action is to get a nice big clump of caulerpa and plant it right where this stuff is growing--hopefully it will outcompete it for those nutrients?

Dan

This looks like a job for... SEA HARES!!! Seriously...

I know they eat algae, but it seems to me that would be a band-aid solution: This must be caused by some sort of imbalance in my tank, and just removing the algae wouldn't solve that. Also, if I removed the sea hare when the octo came (or let it be eaten god forbid!) the algae would come right back.

Dan

All very good points except for your last one.... I had a sea hare and an octo togther, and the only time I ever saw them interact was when the Hare crawled into the octos den and was sent flying back when the oto blew water out of its funnnel! LOL!

Yeah, but I wouldn't want to take the chance :)

Dan

Hi Dan, you've got some coralline there, but also some sort of filamentous red algae (we call it sea hair, kind of a generic name for all the red filamentous stuff we can't ID :grin: ) You sound like you're taking all the right steps. The other thing you can do is to manually pluck the worst of the hairs off. The problems are

a) very tedious!
b) algal life cycle. Algae have a multi stage life cycle and one stage is microscopic. Which is why invading seaweeds are a real prob for an ecosystem (or a tank :mad: )
c) vegetative reproduction, the blasted stuff can regrow from a broken bit :mad: :mad: so if you pluck you must be sure to get rid of all the "bits"

Good luck....keep us posted

J

wow, scrubing the tank..still sounds like an awful lot to do.
P.S: I've got this green alage/bacteria/seaweed thing on my tank! I hve no idea what it is and it just keeps coming back! #*$&$^&#*$!!!!!

Sorry CW not ignoring you!

Hmmm check your nutrient levels in your tank (nitrate/nitrite etc) and your light levels (even what's coming in through the window could be a problem) Course algals spores wil be present in rocks etc so scurbbing the glass isoften the only way... sorry. If you keep on top of it though it shouldn't be too huge a job (I used to do my cichlid tank once a week)


cheers

J

Thanks Jean,

I'll physically remove as much of the stuff as I can and plop a nice big caulerpa in the middle to see if it will conquer it. I might even reduce my light cycle to 6 hours a day. Oddly enough I haven't gotten any of it in my refugium, which is now lit 16 hours.

Right now I've got about 60 lbs of live rock. That's probably a little low for a 75 gallon tank, but I've been building up slowly. If I went ahead and picked up another 15 or 20 lbs would that be at all helpful as a nutrient sink?

Dan

Hm....hope you plan works. Stalingrad of the saltwater tank, eh? Battle to the very last plant cell.

Hm....hope you plan works. Stalingrad of the saltwater tank, eh? Battle to the very last plant cell.

We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.

Dan

Hi
Looks like some sort of diatom alage, it often happens in new tanks and should go in time.. it looks unsightly but will dissapear once it has used up whatever nutrients it is using just now.

I'd be tempted to put the photoperiod back to what it was and let it run its course... If you still have bother in a couple of weeks check the silicate level. But in my experience it wont last long

Cheers

We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.

Dan

That is if we can find something to fight with. ( Picks up bottle cap)
Aha, a weapon of mass destruction! :twisted:

Hi
Looks like some sort of diatom alage, it often happens in new tanks and should go in time.. it looks unsightly but will dissapear once it has used up whatever nutrients it is using just now.

I'd be tempted to put the photoperiod back to what it was and let it run its course... If you still have bother in a couple of weeks check the silicate level. But in my experience it wont last long

Cheers


Hi Colin,

When the tank was only a few weeks old I had a big invasion of stuff that was a pure brown color that has since disappeared over the months--I figured those were diatoms and this wasn't.

Update: I've been culling the red hairy stuff every day, and Wednesday I put down some ulva over the the worst areas (weighted down with a couple strategically-placed rocks). Since then, my red regrowth has been dramatically slower, and if I weed it out again it certainly won't be on a daily basis.

About an inch of gracillaria came in the bag with the ulva. Its about three inches now! :)

Dan

That is if we can find something to fight with. ( Picks up bottle cap)
Aha, a weapon of mass destruction! :twisted:


don't you mean

a weapon of mess destruction! :lol: :twisted: :lol:

J

Hi again

I had a scan on some books here and the consensus is cyanobacteria. Not a true algae at all but a pain none the less. Basically something in the tank is causing it to get established... most likely high phosphates or silicates, can you test for either?

Here's a handy link...
http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=cyanobacteria+aquarium&spell=1

http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&safe=off&q=cyanobacteria+red+slime

werid, i don't have any thing from the sea and it keep appearing!
( Like everthing's sythetic( or whatever you spell it) sea water, fish, clay decorations and stuff.

...it could could come in with the water from when you buy fish or even as pores floating around in the air........