After keeping S Officinallis and losing him (8 months ago) I have only now just let myself think slightly about keeping a ceph again.

I have the chance of some imported eggs, which i believe are S Bandensis.

If I am able to obtain them, can you advise will 2 or 3 (if raised together) be ok in a 70 gallon tank. And will they eat my typical clean up crew or turbos and red leg hermits.

They might go for the hermits but snails seem to be left alone, in a 70 gallon 3 should do fine, make sure they get well fed though, if one is smaller than the others it'll make a good meal for the others when they get hungry.

Hi Mikey
any chance of letting me know where the foreign eggs are coming from?

Hi Colin, good to speak to you again.

Once i have been in contact with my guy, i'll try to let you know. I doubt the secret will be forthcoming, but will have a go!

HI mikey

yeah see if you can find out... id be really interested :)

PM sent Col.

Erm RE the eggs Col, how about Indonesia??

a few tonmo'ers have been successful with bandensis am i right?

they have great colour too - i watched some of joels(?) video!

indonesia is not far from australia you know :razz:

haha... if you could let us know it would be fantastic - they are eggs you say? even better!

if you cant tell me how to get them can you tell me how you found the indonesian supplier? it is really difficult trying to make a contact when you dont know where to start lol

Eggs from indonesia could be bandensis but it could also be a latimanus or anything in between, you could give them a try.Sorry this doesn't help much..

if it turned out that they were latimanus - i could house one and give the others to very keen frineds... righty has some for sale btw i think

Are latimanus similar to bandensis?

no no no way!!!! :grad:

bandensis i dont know all that much about except that they only grow to like 10cm full length but latimanus grow up to 30-40cm mantle length (plus more for arms and tentacles!) they are almost a tropical version of the common european cuttlefish now for sale on the internet.

according to the nrcc latimanus may not reach their full size in an aquarium if ample space is not provided and adapt better to a slightly smaller tank but it is definitely NOT reccomended (200 gallon minimum as always) they are really cool though...lol :lol:

Cheers for that oscar. Good shout!

hey do you mind telling me where youre getting those eggs from. ive been looking for those forever.


:cuttle: :beer: :band:

i guess if it turns out well we can share information if it is possible...

thanks for that collin - let us know how it goes! (eagerly awaiting response!!!) though it seems that getting cuttles in australia has suddenly become a lot easier with suppliers now willing to order them specifically they appear on ordering lists every 2 weeks or so i am told!!! yay

Hey all,

These eggs have completely dissapeared from the importers list recently. My guys are on it, and as soon as they turn up, we'll give you an update.

Blast - i only missed them by a week too - anyone know if the they are seasonal layers?

not sure about bandensis but the giant australian cuttlefish congregate in enormous groups of thousands in certain places to spawn - they are so docile at this time that you can pick them up with your hands. It happens at whyalla in south australia at a certain time every year in the same place/time within a week or so every year (a little off track but cool!!) im not sure if others do the same - i would have thought not since they have lifespans of less than a year in some cases! but i might be wrong...

Hi Mikey
I'm pretty sure they will be seasonal.. I'm guessing that on the fact that we have seasonal influxes of 'how to keep bandensis' questions. Thats when the adults often start appearing in the US. However, they might have two seasons per year... dont know enough about them in the wild.

Still got fingers crossed

Cheers Col, How's things going? Not seen you on-line in a while. Busy with the fish garage are ya?

Well, if they are annually seasonal, we just got another 10 months to wait mate!

Busy with a lot of stuff Mike, selling houses and buying houses aint much fun :(

Fish garage wont be too long now, aim to have it running by end of the summer, just got the glass sorted out today for tanks :)

bummer...

If any became available in the UK, hypothetically of course :wink: , would anyone here be interested in some Bandensis?

EDIT - oh, and would they collect from say Cumbria?

Hey all,
S. bandensis don't swarm to mate (but wouldn't it be great if they did!). They're very shy (in the wild) and a collector likely does a fair bit of rock (etc.) turning along the reef to find the eggs. If happy, they can mate and lay fertile, healthy eggs, and young can be raised in an aquarium (I've never kept them but know someone who has raised them). Given this- what are the sources of tank-raised eggs to the public, so people know where to buy them instead of wild-caughts? If none- then is this something that will be available soon? Seems it would be pretty profitable for someone to culture them.

Also- S.latimanus eggs are larger (golf-ball sized). Females generally lay the eggs in certain corals, and some bommies along the reef seem to be particularly good spawning grounds. A collector would have to do some major damage to the coral to get them, so wild-caughts aren't the most sustainable choice for eggs. Are these generally tank-raised?

Thanks for the info there mucktopus, espeiclally on latimanus, and their egg size/shape.

I guess I was trying to drop a hint, to see what the interest was like, rather than make an enquiry on the species. As if all goes to plan, I'm quite a bit on with my plans - as in, maybe get ready for some in a couple of months time....

Just to add, eggs just developing at the moment. Haven't got a fantastic ID on them, but location and size seems to tie in with Bandensis.

Does Phillipenes still tie in with Bandensis?

Just checked on web, and noticed they are found in those waters- still fingers crossed. I suppose even with a scientific name supplied from an LFS they can still turn out not to be as described! :lol:

Heres a pic, egg size may 14mm now swollen with development, compared to about 10mm when i got them. Eyes are soo cute!

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/DSCF0256 (Medium).JPG

Wow, those eggs look splendid! Yep, there's still a chance they're bandensis :wink: Do keep us updated :grin:

Thanks Joel.

Just took these few today, and they were quite good so i've attached them.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/DSCF0259%20(Medium).JPG

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/DSCF0270%20(Medium).JPG

Beautiful!

The first eggs I had hatched with some yolk sack still attached and the babies wouldn't eat for a couple of days. You is gonna be a daddy soon.

WOW! They are awesome pictures! - how have you got the eggs set up? did you separate them or not? have you got a small pump aimed at them? or air bubbling? - all of these things are suggestions i have read but noone knows exactly what to do i guess! - then again just look how successfull you are being so far!!!

So, GOOD LUCK!! your doing awesome! - you might not want to say how you got the eggs obviously but is it possible to - firstly, get more, and secondly get them shipped to a different country (Aus) - I would love bandensis!! Just one or two though - not for my show tank - i have newly set up a 4 foot fuge but hey i can ditch a little of the algae and there should be lots of room!!! lol -

I had almost stopped believing cephs existed at all!!! lol

Or if you dont want to organise it (and i imagine it was a bit of work!!!) Could you give me a place to start looking for a supplier? - being in a different country to the suppliers makes it almost impossible to communicate! How did you manage it?

Hi Oscar,

The eggs are currently in a floating breeding trap, and i have tilted the trap so water from the main reef system ebbs the eggs and provide fresh water. I have not seperated them, and they are in their laid state.

The eggs came from a shop who sponsors a bulletin board I moderate on. There is the chance for more definiately, but my aim is to breed myself.

I don't like the sound of shipping, although it is always a possibility. If all goes well I could look into it, if not, it may be possible that I get the name of the collector or exporter.

All early days yet, and with info I have received, I think a hatch in a couple of days can be expected.

The eggs ship well. I shipped some overnight. I also shipped a number of hatchlings the same way and there were almost no problems.

:D

Just to add, thank to Righty and Colin for all their help througout this!

:notworth:

(Collin and righty are great - we all know that - lol!)

Thanks for that - if you could check it out when the next batch come around and maybe i could get something done the batch after that or whenever - im not going anywhere lol

It sounds great! i hope the hatch goes well! Have you hatched or reared cuttles before - i have very little idea what is involved so i would be interested! It sounds like you do cos you have set it up well!!! let us know how the hatch goes!!!

:lol:

I have not reared them before, so it's a steep learning curve with the help of the guys. I will be happy if just a few come through.

I am keeping a photo log of development, and will grab some videos soon too. I hope to put together a paper for tonmo, and/or a website so all can access the information.

As an update, today arms are clearly visible, and the yolk sack is decreasing in size, so a hatch sounds imminent!

God... wish me luck!

Hi Mikey, hows it going?

Just as an added bit of info, all of the Sepia officinalis that were sold via Octopets were sent through the post from the UK so that's point enough that eggs can travel well compared to juvies

Cheers

what is the red tape and paperwork like on shipping eggs coll? any idea?

Still waiting!! Although talking to the food supplier yesterday some good news came through - they can also supply me with live river shrimp and crabs!! So no need to get my hands dirty!

Although a day at the beach is fun!!!!!!

still...a day at the beach every week gets old very quickly i am guessing...lol

Live food ordered! Think I have shy cuttles!

I checked one egg yesterday and opened it up. Out came a fully functioning cuttle with small yolks sack. He was about 8mm mantle length and had spiny skin. Put him in main tank and he colour flashed 100% but plain white colour otherwise.

Thoughts?

hmmm... well i dont really have thoughts seeing as i have no idea - but i suppose the move shocked it? although it is the same water right? - anyway has it dissapeared yet? lol - not to be seen for two weeks (or unless it gets really really hungry...lol)

8mm is sooo small! good luck (not small for bandensis i mean small compared to giant aussie cuttle fry)

actually i believe the giant aussie ones have small fry too they just grow quicker...funny...although the eggs are larger i think so maybe the babies are too...hmmm

any way i am drifting off! (in both senses of the word) lol - good luck and good night

I mean thoughts on species... How old do they have to be to get an accurate ID?

It looked just like Righty's though, soo god dam cute!

oh right - i thought u "knew" (or close to it that they were bandensis!) - size and shape of the eggs would be ur best bet at this stage i would say...not that i could id it from the egg

Sounds like mine, but it is impossible to tell without cutting up the body and looking at the club and cuttlebone. Of course, as they get older we get some great clues!

I strongly suspect that you are getting the same eggs I am getting because I doubt there is more than one exporter exporting them!

Don't open up any more! :D

oh, you actually opened an egg? - and it survived? maybe they are close to hatching...but why open them up?? i suppose the excitement would make me do the same though...lol

can't you tell from the egg pictures righty? - or are they still too similar...

They are very close Oscar, and my importer has had some hatch too, but he maintains that sometimes they break the egg wall and stay in there hiding!! Funny things, and cute to boot!

sounds good! give us all the info you can! - good luck!

keep those pics coming too mate :)

pictures are awesome! id have to agree - so what are you doing - drag out the digital...lol (such a mission i know...)

Quick one for righty - how long did it take your guys to recognise mysis as a food source, and did they only really hunt at night?

Not righty, but newly hatched officinalis will take mysis with a day of hatching...

How many have you got hatched out Mike?

Some took it right away, some took up to 4 days after hatching OR after the yolk sack was absorbed.

PICS!

Have 2 at the mo, will post some pics up tomorrow. Not ate in a day :(

Don't worry yet! They'll prolly be fine!

Didn't wait until tomorrow!

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/DSCF0299 (Medium).JPG

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/DSCF0300 (Medium).JPG

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/DSCF0298 (Medium).JPG

NICE!

Bandensis?? Walks with 2 lower arms. Raised skin....

??

Prolly !

Hard to tell - the first cuttles I had I was sure were bandensis, not I am not so sure.

:mrgreen:

Sweeet! :birthday:
Awesome... the proud father.. keep the pics a'coming..

they are sooooo cool! - i thought they would just be like brown blobs but they look mad!!!

Mikey,

Fabulous pictures! So cute, they make my baby shrimp look kinda dull now. :wink: :rainbow: .

Regards

Lisa

Those baby sexy's are amazing little characters Lisa! Between us we'll have the whole sea sorted!

They still aint eating to my knowledge guys :sad: at least not during the day. I know they are nocturnal (aren't they...) so maybe they are taking food at night.

Had my first inking yesterday - thick it was, syphoned right out. Now if it only stayed like that! :lol:

Will keep you all posted.

Excellent news Mike

Will need to come and visit soon ;)

wow can they ink when they are that small! - i guess with all those babies you wouldnt want to spook them!!! - how big are they now?

From what my eyes could make out last night, 2 hatchlings ate. After having spoke to my supplier, his (who kept some eggs more developed than mine) took 7 days to eat. That would give me until saturday for the first one. Less worried again now!

I know one did for sure, as he had those crooked arms they get when they're eating, also it did that classic, huff and puff when it had finished and half a shrimp flew out.

I'm hoping that they will all take it's lead now. So fingers crossed.

Yup, saw them strike last night, and the majority of them ate. Was happy to see. I think with them being largely nocturnal, thats when they pefer to eat in my tank.

As long as they eat at night, not to fussed about them just laying about during the day!

glad to hear the news

did you chuck in a lot or more controlled method?

The majority of the mysis had remained from the night before (flood fed), when only one cuttle fed. I followed the lead of my supplier, and chucked some cyclopeeze in with them last night - he only used it to feed the Brine he was using, but it seemed to act like an attractant to the cuttles, initiating a feed response.

I dont know whether it was coincidence, but feeding ramped up as soon as the lights went out.

Just a quick shot from 5 minutes ago:

What do you call a gathering of cuttles? A swarm? A Gaggle :lol:

http://www.ultimatereef.net/photopost/data/533/1374S20PRO_055_Medium_.jpg

we decided a while back to call them a 'cuddle' LOL

we decided a while back to call them a 'cuddle' LOL

just to make it difficult to say i suppose! lol

When do you have to start worrying about fighting colin? or should these guys be fine?

Wow, those pictures are so great mikey! keep them coming - it makes up a very small part for me not having my own cuddle of cuttles lol


:lol: :mrgreen: :lol:

Ahhh, it has just clicked! are they still in the hatching net? - i suppose they would all have dissapeared if not! - what is the main tank the net is sitting in like? is it big? lr? reef? fish?

Oscar, always nice to read your replies.

They are in a 75 gallon LR only tank with a mahoosive skimmer.

The are in a breeding net, although i do have one alive and well in the main tank.

All feeding now so happy! :smile:


From advice, if they are kept together and fed well, canabalism should be rare.

Keep your fingers crossed guys.

PS: the way they walk is soo cute! :lol:

haha sounds good - And i am glad to hear you have a "mahoosive skimmer" lol

How big do you reckon they should be before you "rtelease" them into the tank? - the problem will be finding them no doubt...

err...yeah i meant "release" ... :[

From the top view they look very much like the critters I have! Nice!

I haven't seen aggressive behavior till around the three month mark - but I only kept 5 to a net breeder.

NICE!

Bloomin heck! Just had 6 hatch within the space of 5 minutes!

YEAH!

Well, I witnessed my first hatch about haf an hour a go.

Thought it would a bit of heaving and pushing, but it took about 2 seconds! Butt end first, like slicing through jelly!

Then an onslaught of births! 6 in the space of 3 minutes!

Now 11 babies all eating like pigs!

Some pics (rather bad after balancing on a stool to get them :lol:) excuse the blue light.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/photopost/data/533/1374DSCF0329_Medium_.JPG

http://www.ultimatereef.net/photopost/data/533/1374DSCF0330_Medium_.JPG

yeah the leaf kinda covers the focal point...lol but any picture is awesome - and all eating! sounds promising! (damnit i want eggs!!! lol)

16 now and counting - all other eggs look viable too.

Oh dear - they're eating the mysis (who are eating themselves) out of house and home :lol:

Oh dear - they're eating the mysis (who are eating themselves) out of house and home :lol:...errr what the?

The mysis are very carbiverous. Ordered more and will be with me tomorrow...

25 now..

42 babies in all - all hatched, no fatalities so far! Fingers crossed!

how are you getting on with the shrimps now?

Good thanks - little more robust that what I gave themm credit for. Water changes are a bit easier and infrequent now on the mysis.

They seem to tolerate higher SG changes quite well, I think temp is the main problem but most get whipped up by the babies so fast that aint much of an issue :lol:

When you coming down Col? Your moving this week or next, right?

I start moving this thrusday and finish friday, got a lot of stuff to do. The big FW tank is down to about 12" of water, just syphoning it all out to get the last few loaches and cats out!

I am off for a week but dont know if i'll manage down or not and then i go staright back into 12 in a row so best case is next week, worse case scenario is 3 weeks, but might have a wee SW tank set up by then? :wink:

cheers

Taking into account that these are tropical cuttles, do you think indirect metal halide lighting is ok? Dont want to hurt their eyes.

Good question, i am not sure whether it would actually hurt their eyes or not as they can easily adjust their pupil, i think more likely it would make them much less active during the lights on period.

try and see but i dont really remember much from my cuttles when i changed to MH bulbs, other than switching off the heater :)

Cheers Col - covered over slightly just in case!

Monkeys are growing now - largest maybe now 15mm??

Hoping to get some pics up over the bank holiday weekend!

42 babies!!! (hard to count?) Errr from what i thought they dont mind very dim or very strong lighting - remember where they live! - in caves, deep down, in the shallows, on the reef, amongst weed... (im guessing bandensis stay around the reef but i have no idea! - which is a high lit area!)

Just in case the lighting is too strong provide lots of caves and introduce it slowly - like having a short photoperiod with the light diffusing through a thin sheet or something - but even this wont be needed if they have a place big enough for all of them to get out of it! I think most people i have talked to who keep a cuttle in a reef system used strong halides (one used 250 watts!) but really i think they are fine - (and look awesome!)

anyway back to the babies! - got any new photos? are they growing as fast as i have read (although bandensis doesnt get big does it...hmmm) anyway it sounds like you are doing great! good luck! id love to get as far as what you have some day!

oh sorry i just read the previous post...15mm! thats tiny!!! how did you count them!!! lol - they are still in the net i take it!

I counted them when i switched breeding nets. 15mm is almost double in size!! And one is now knocking that!

More pics soon, just got a power adapter for my cam so can take as many as I want!

i like the news about the camera!!! lol

DOUBLE!!! wow that is impressive! it hasnt been very long has it? this is more like what i had been reading!!! look forward to hearing (and seeing) more!

I don't think the light would actually hurt their eyes. I think that idea got started by people putting WC cuttles in reef tanks and having them die. Also, their eyes often cloud up as they approach sensescence, and I believe this has also been blamed on MH lighting with WC cuttles.

Wow, that is the most poorly written paragraph - I am too tired to fix it!
:D