Could a large squid kill a sperm whale? [Archive] - TONMO: The Octopus News Magazine Online

myopsida

Nov 17, '04, 1:44pm

It would have to be a foetal sperm whale for a squid to really stand a chance

Some years ago, we received a report of a dead giant squid washed up at Oterangi Bay (sp?) (where the power cable comes ashore). While measuring the specimen (it was one of those long hot summer days and we had little intention of returning to the office) the caretaker /maintenance guy wandered down and asked about the squids and how big they grew. After some discussion he told us that one evening he had heard a 'commotion' at the shore and had watched for 20-30 minutes as a sperm whale rolled along the beach trying to dislodge a squid which had wrapped itself around the whale's head. Apparently the whale eventually managed to bite enough of the squids arms and free itself, then rested in shallow water for ten minutes before swimming off. He never told anybody because he thought he wouldn't be believed.

Seems that given the right circumstances a squid could stand a chance . . . .

Clem

Nov 17, '04, 8:36pm

Hello Myopsida,

That's quite a tale. I don't disbelieve it, but I do wonder just how alive that squid could have been. Could an ex-squid remain stuck fast to Physeter? Perhaps one of the hook-equipped species...I'm curious about the proximity of this anecdotal event to a submarine cable. Hasn't there been at least one recorded sperm whale drowning after getting tangled in a cable, having (presumably) mistaken it for a prey item?

If a mature Messie shoved it's arms and tentacles down a (sleeping) juvenile sperm whale's throat, got good hook traction and gave it all a good pull, then, maybe, I could see the whale getting kilt.

:twocents:

Clem

legendarycroc

Nov 19, '04, 5:57pm

i dont belive the squid stands too much of a chance agains an adult sperm whale, ive read the largest whale on record was 67ft long, 72tonnes, and the squid's arms aren't gonna be strong enough to hold on the whale for 2 hours, it's gonna be very tiring, and the whale is obviously much strogner than its oponent, and dont forget he clicks ( usual, coda, creak AND lower) that stuns the prey...

Brennan Burns

Apr 10, '05, 7:34am

Hi guys, I'm new to this great site and believe it or not some insight in to this very question was one of the reasons I joined. To be honest, I'v put alot of research in to this and this question can not be accurately awnsered by ANY scientist known. The only evedence to point to an awnser to this question lies mostly in eyewhitness accounts. I have read an eyewhitness account of a man on a military lessel that was over 170 ft. long. He stated that a squid surfaced close to the side of the ship, he walked the entire length of the ship and saw that the squid was longer! Again, this is only an eye whitness account but a squid that size could strangle a sperm whale to death. I have read another nearly verified account, similar to one mentioned previously in this forum of a soviet whaler whitnesing an epoch battle near the surface of the water between a 40 ton sperm whale and a giant squid. The whale was later found by the ship strangled to death, floating in the sea with the dead squid's tenticles still wraped around it's throat and it's head crushed in in the sperm whale's jaw. Giant squids have actually been known to attack and kill the Right whale for nothing more than sport (supported by eye whitness account). The Brunswick was a 15,000 ton auxiliary tanker owned by the Royal Norwegian Navy, it was documented to be attacked at least three times in it's career by giany squid. This would support the belief that a Giant squid defending it's territory would not hesitate to attack a target even larger than a whale and in some whale vs. squid battles it may very well be the agressor. In the 1930's The fact is, scientists do not know just how big the giant squid gets, the largest specimen was 59 feet long. To be honest guys, I love the Giant Squid more than any other animal on Earth. But it would take a squid of about 130 feet to put up an even battle against a full grown bull sperm whale. Do squid that big exist I say: Darn right they do!

If you have any questions, please ask away! I'm a good, friendly guy who just loves Giant squid. :welcome:

cbarela

Apr 10, '05, 10:07am

Welcome Brennan! Be prepared, whatever you know about squids will quadruple here - the wealth of knowlege amonst these folks will astound you as they have me. I think you're going to really enjoy being a part of this group.
-chris

cthulhu77

Apr 10, '05, 10:48am

The biggest problem with such tales is that they are more influenced by rum/vodka and the natural tendency of men at sea to make their boring terms more eventful by perhaps "colouring" the truth...all of the stories regarding these monster squid can not be validated by photos or real documentation...it is always " I saw it, trust me" evidence...which doesn't hold much water.
That does not mean that such beasts do not roam the world's ocean's...it just means that they haven't been found yet, maybe...although I think in this instance, Cachalot has by far, the upper hand...(or tooth?) A giant squid attacking a sperm whale would be like a gazelle attacking a pride of lions...possible...but rather unlikely...
greg

Squidman

Apr 10, '05, 1:54pm

Clem

Apr 10, '05, 3:08pm

Hello Brennan,

:welcome:

I have read an eyewhitness account of a man on a military lessel that was over 170 ft. long. He stated that a squid surfaced close to the side of the ship, he walked the entire length of the ship and saw that the squid was longer!
Was that the account of Dennis Braun, printed in Richard Ellis's book? Braun didn't claim that the squid had surfaced alongside the ship, but that the animal was visible far below the surface, and that it was "probably" 100ft or more in length. You're quite right to point out that this was an uncorroborated eye-witness account, but it is quite a story.

I have read another nearly verified account, similar to one mentioned previously in this forum of a soviet whaler whitnesing an epoch battle near the surface of the water between a 40 ton sperm whale and a giant squid. The whale was later found by the ship strangled to death, floating in the sea with the dead squid's tenticles still wraped around it's throat and it's head crushed in in the sperm whale's jaw.
Never heard that one. If something like that happened, I think it's significant that this scene was observed from a Soviet whaler. Perhaps they recovered a harpooned sperm whale that vomited up a large squid in its death throes, or killed a whale after it had surfaced with its dinner.

Giant squids have actually been known to attack and kill the Right whale for nothing more than sport (supported by eye whitness account).
'Twould have to be for sport, wouldn't it? Right whales are massive animals, and unless the squid could somehow physically cover the whale's airway (and be smart enough to do so), there's really no way it could kill such a leviathan.

Take a look at the Giant Squid and Colossal Squid Fact Sheet (http://www.tonmo.com/science/public/giantsquidfacts.php) for the most accurate and up-to-date assessment of maximum size for the Architeuthis No accurately measured specimen has ever approached 59 ft. in length. That doesn't mean they never attain that size, but there's no physical evidence to suggest that they do. You are right to suggest that squid will attack objects much larger than themselves, but when it occurs it is probably due to a combination of biological imperatives: hunger, innate aggression and deep, deep stupidity. Keep in mind, too, that there's more than one type of "giant" squid, and Architeuthis may not be terribly energetic, especially not at the surface. If the Brunswick was repeatedly rushed by a very large squid, it might have been a different species.

Look forward to more posts from you, Brennan. Enjoy the forums!

Cheers,

Clem

Steve O'Shea

Apr 10, '05, 4:01pm

Never heard that one. If something like that happened, I think it's significant that this scene was observed from a Soviet whaler. Perhaps they recovered a harpooned sperm whale that vomited up a large squid in its death throes, or killed a whale after it had surfaced with its dinner.

How odd; Clem, this is the second time this week that I've heard of this story. I don't believe it, or any other of the eyewitness accounts, but I'd be interested to know where this particular story comes from (popular press or web?).

Clem

Apr 10, '05, 4:53pm

Steve,

The story is oft-repeated on cryptozoology sites, with little variation in language and detail. (Run a google search for "Soviet whaler, giant squid" and you'll see what I mean.) The event supposedly took place in 1965, and most versions hold that the squid's head was found in the whale's stomach, with the arms and tentacles "wrapped around the whale's throat." So, it sounds to me like a Soviet whaler waxed a sperm whale, the whale coughed up some appendages while floating in the water and imagination/vodka/crushing boredom supplied the rest of the story's elements.

Brennan, there's a fishy tale involving a monster squid in the Indian Ocean, attributed to one A.G. Starkey. Alone on deck (of course) aboard a WWII-era British Admiralty "trawler", he claims to have witnessed a beast on the surface that was longer than his ship. It's another crypto-site staple, and sounds totally unbelievable. For one thing, the size of Starkey's vessel keeps changing: some accounts put it at 60 ft, others at 175 ft. The vessel is described as a trawler, but the Admiralty wasn't in the fishing business during WWII, if ever. Finally, Mr. Starkey claims to have walked the length of the boat during the encounter, finding the squid's tail at one end of the boat and the tentacles at the other. Assuming, for the moment, that there really was a monster squid that helpfully positioned itself next to the nearest scale reference, to believe Mr. Starkey you'd have to accept the existence of a squid fully 100% larger than the largest known specimen of any species. It doesn't add up. Blame the poor quality of wartime rum, I say.

Cheers,

Clem

cthulhu77

Apr 10, '05, 7:11pm

and also, think of how long it would have taken him to "walk the length" of the boat...the photos of british ships show them cluttered with odds and ends...why would a squid just sit there for so long??? on top of that, that would be one hell of a small trawler...even the pt boats were 76-80 feet in length...

Sordes

Apr 15, '06, 8:50am

I think it is very very unprobable that any giant squid ever killed a sperm whale. Even newborn sperm whales have a weight of about 1t, as large or even larger than any archi. But this small ones have no contact with big squids, because they don´t dive. If they are big enough to dive, they are also many times heavier than even the larges Mesonychoteuthis, and no squid could drown them. Even small female sperm whales are about 15 tons in weight, that means about 30 times the weight of a very large Archi, it´s comparable to a fight between a mouse and cat.
Even very large and aggressive species like Mesonychoteuthis had no chance even against a small sperm whale. They are much smaller, and furthermore they have no true weapons against a giant like a sperm whale. Although the skin of sperm whales is very thin, they have thick layers of blubber which would defend them from serious damage from beaks and hooks. Even if a large squid could manage to bite a whale in its eyes, it would have little effect, because such a wound wouldn´t be deadly for the whale, and sperm whales needs no eyes (as several very healthy but also very blind specimens have shown) for orientation. Strangulation seems also unprobably, because sperm whales have most oxygen in their blood and inner organs, and not in their lungs, furthermore their bodies are built to withstand enormous pressure, so a squid had really no possibility to kill a squid.
But I still ask me which ass tells stories about squids which kill right whales for sport...

legendarycroc

Aug 20, '06, 5:53pm

http://unmuseum.mus.pa.us/squid.htm
"Giant Squid have been seen in battle with adult whales too. In 1965, a Soviet whaler watched a battle between a squid and a 40 ton sperm whale. In this case neither were victorious. The strangled whale was found floating in the sea with the squid's tentacles wrapped around the whale's throat. The squid's severed head was found in the whale's stomach"

I think this was the story was mentioned earlier,
I know of sperm whales to be about 3m in height around the "throat region" and a large architeuthis would have tentacles that are about 10metres long. Theoretically, the architeuthis could only get one coil around the whale's head! Let us compare this to some other animals- a burmese python (13ft) failed to asphyxiate a 6ft gator and had to swallow it alive! The gator was just over double the constrictor's girth.

From my understanding of reptiles, a snake with 3 or 4 coils around a crocodillian isnt enough to kill him (unless in water- then the croc may be drowned). So in this situation, I find it extremely difficult to believe an architeuthis was actually strong enough that it was able to strangle the whale! Also, aren't suckers powered by muscles? Therefore after death- should "the suckers lose suction"? I find this story incredibly difficult to believe, especially those thin long tentacles strangling a whale with a single coil, whilst constrictors cant with just 3 or 4!

----------

Steve, you responded to my email the other day saying the architeuthis beaks found in physeter bellies are no larger than the 13m giant squids that you have examined, shouldn't this indicate that this is an ongoing cycle, that sperm whales are not reluctant in feeding on even the largest squids- this would be a common act of predation and therefore the chances of a sperm whale being killed a giant squid would be no more likely like any large predator taking slightly smaller prey (considering that sperm whales do not take prey larger than itself).

chrono_war01

Aug 20, '06, 6:14pm

Wait..if a large squid exists...and the whales are not eating them, which means no beaks. And it too us so darn long to find Messie and Archie (even with a ample supply of beaks)...this means that there could be bigger things out there, no?

Tintenfisch

Aug 20, '06, 7:10pm

... and therefore the chances of a sperm whale being killed a giant squid would be no more likely like any large predator taking slightly smaller prey (considering that sperm whales do not take prey larger than itself).

Yep, I think we are all pretty much in agreement that no squid we know of would be able to kill a sperm whale or even struggle with it in any meaningful way. In any physical dimension but length, the giant squid (or colossal, for that matter) is significantly smaller.
There is, of course, the possibility (and secret hope of many, no doubt :wink:) that there is something bigger out there that we don't know about yet, because the whales and other predators we rely on for much of our information don't eat it... :cyclops:

tonmo

Aug 20, '06, 7:18pm

Yep, I think we are all pretty much in agreement that no squid we know of would be able to kill a sperm whale or even struggle with it in any meaningful way.
Hi! :smile:

Referencing that freaky news story about the book about real, scary monsters in the sea, is there a chance that a giant squid could act as a kind of parasite to a whale? If they were to affix to the whale, couldn't they, in theory, kind of feed off the whale, while going along for the ride? So, maybe not "strangle" but "slowly feed on and overcome"? What's a whale gonna do about it?

Feel free to ignore me. :rolleyes:

chrono_war01

Aug 20, '06, 7:22pm

And we also have to presume that all dead bodies of those animals sink as we would've found them if they float.

Of course, all those "Kraken" stories might be real and that poeple have spotted it...

cuttlegirl

Aug 20, '06, 7:26pm

Hi! :smile:

Referencing that freaky news story about the book about real, scary monsters in the sea, is there a chance that a giant squid could act as a kind of parasite to a whale? If they were to affix to the whale, couldn't they, in theory, kind of feed off the whale, while going along for the ride? So, maybe not "strangle" but "slowly feed on and overcome"? What's a whale gonna do about it?

Feel free to ignore me. :rolleyes:

Hmmm, well there are plenty of animals that will take a chunk out of a marine mammal, cookie cutter sharks come to mind. But I don't know if the squid would actually go along for a ride, that would be quite a ride...
http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishfacts/fish/llacepedei7.htm

tonmo

Aug 20, '06, 7:43pm

Yikes again!

legendarycroc

Aug 20, '06, 8:22pm

There is, of course, the possibility (and secret hope of many, no doubt ) that there is something bigger out there that we don't know about yet, because the whales and other predators we rely on for much of our information don't eat it...

I personally do not believe that the environment as it is could sustain cephalopods much larger than mesonychoteuthis or architeuthis (for example- the Krakens the "preyed" upon 18th century ships). Why? If such a larger animal existed on extreme depth >3000m, would the animal not need a such amount of food supply to sustain that size? The way I understand it is that the deeper the water- the less and smaller the "moving food supply" is... it would then mean that "the kraken" must live in shallowers waters (~1000-3000m?), and this is within the range of sperm whales as well as other large squids- which would mean it would only be a matter of time until we see sucker marks on sperm whales that are double the size of architeuthis' :wink:

Referencing that freaky news story about the book about real, scary monsters in the sea, is there a chance that a giant squid could act as a kind of parasite to a whale? If they were to affix to the whale, couldn't they, in theory, kind of feed off the whale, while going along for the ride? So, maybe not "strangle" but "slowly feed on and overcome"? What's a whale gonna do about it?

As a parasite, should the squid not have to "hang on" to its company? I personally have not seen anything close to a sperm whale (stranded or not- the closest in size/figure would probably be a common carp) but, if this theory is true, we should find sucker marks on not only the anterior-head area of the animal, but also closer to the posterior or even natal areas (where most other parasites "hang"). Most accounts of sucker marks on whales are said to be near the head of the animal- which would be a clear indicator of some predation activity, not parasitic.

Plus, if another whale sees a parasite this large, it would be a sensationable meal! I would think architeuthis is too big to be a parasite. As well... sperm whales have to return to the surface every hour or so; there have never been reports of "squids hanging on to sperm whales"- so its either that these animals hang on and ditch.. or they dont do it at all! The ditching theory- I would think is also invalid because an hour isnt so long a time that they could get much profits from. Sperm whales hunt using echolocation- they would of already sensed the squid before the squid "touches down" on the whale, why would a sperm whale let the squid become its parasite unless it got something in return (other then a future meal :wink: ). Lastly, architeuthis is a large part of the whale's diet (70% for sperm whales in Antarctic?), most parasites are not inevitable prey items to their host- if so they wouldnt stick around!

Of course, all those "Kraken" stories might be real and that poeple have spotted it...

The world needs some mystery doesnt it? There is a high possibility that a man saw an oarfish breach near a ship and assumed there was a "kraken" with a 30ft tentacle near the ship and every onboard scrambles to get the h3ll out of there! :grin:

Tintenfisch

Aug 20, '06, 9:40pm

If such a larger animal existed on extreme depth >3000m, would the animal not need a such amount of food supply to sustain that size? The way I understand it is that the deeper the water- the less and smaller the "moving food supply" is... it would then mean that "the kraken" must live in shallowers waters (~1000-3000m?), and this is within the range of sperm whales as well as other large squids- which would mean it would only be a matter of time until we see sucker marks on sperm whales that are double the size of architeuthis' :wink:

Unless (playing complete and total devil's advocate here :wink:) the 'kraken' were foraging in any waters below, say, 1000m but never above (so we'd be unlikely to have encountered it), and taking large prey in the shallower ranges (1000-2000m). Of course, the prey corpses would have to sink, and so would all traces of the 'kraken' after death. But if no sperm whale ever survived such an encounter, that could explain why we never see sucker marks of the larger size... :roll:
Actually, as far as we know, even the giant and colossal squids take prey substantially smaller than they are (Architeuthis seems to feed mostly on squid of about 40-50 cm total length, Mesonychoteuthis on fish up to about 2m), in the adult stages anyway. So unless there were something truly *enormous* down there, a whale is still likely to be too big to be a food item, plus I'm not sure mammals would be good squid food, since squid don't digest lipids well and marine mammals generally have a lot of blubber.
And then, as you say, squid require a large amount of food, so our hypothetical 'kraken' would have to be feeding pretty much constantly on its smallish prey, and you make a good point that food is scarce down there. But hey, a girl can dream... :roll:

Tony, the parasite idea is interesting. I'd probably raise the blubber point again though... unless the squid is feeding on scraps the whale drops during feeding (though they seem to be pretty tidy; squid in the stomach are often whole), the only whale tissue it would have access to without burrowing is the blubber.

Lastly, Architeuthis is a large part of the whale's diet (70% for sperm whales in Antarctic?)

I think you're thinking of the colossal squid - according to Clarke (1980) Mesonychoteuthis is thought to make up about 77% of the sperm whale's diet in the Antarctic. Archi is sub-Antarctic to sub-tropical in distribution, which is probably why it makes up less than 1% of the beaks examined in Clarke's data. But we should get Felipe to weigh in on what proportion of the sperm whale's diet Archi comprises in warmer waters!

Clarke, M.R. 1980. Cephalopoda in the diet of sperm whales of the southern hemisphere and their bearing on sperm whale biology. Discovery Reports 37: 324 pp.

WhiteKiboko

Aug 20, '06, 9:58pm

And we also have to presume that all dead bodies of those animals sink as we would've found them if they float.

They All float down here. When your down here with us, you'll float too!

legendarycroc

Aug 20, '06, 10:16pm

But if no sperm whale ever survived such an encounter, that could explain why we never see sucker marks of the larger size...

:roflmao: I just gotta laugh at that. The whole thought of a kraken sized animal is really a funny thought! But no predatory animals have 100% success rate- and was the reason I chose to state this:
"which would mean it would only be a matter of time until we see sucker marks on sperm whales that are double the size of architeuthis' "

Such a large animal would have to prey on extremely large animals- architeuthis, galiteuthis, mesonychoteuthis, physeter could all be on the menu. But I think this thread is getting too "fantasy" for my likings...

I think you're thinking of the colossal squid - according to Clarke (1980) Mesonychoteuthis is thought to make up about 77% of the sperm whale's diet in the Antarctic. Archi is sub-Antarctic to sub-tropical in distribution, which is probably why it makes up less than 1% of the beaks examined in Clarke's data. But we should get Felipe to weigh in on what proportion of the sperm whale's diet Archi comprises in warmer waters!

Yes, I was referring to the colossal squid.
I had just done some calculations (driven by curiousity) based on the beak lengths of mesonychoteuthis specimens compared to their mantle length. It appears that the growth of beak length is not proportional to actual body length, and it appears as if the beak's grow slows as the animal continues growth. Is this of some parity to data you may of gathered, if so why? Would the size of prey proportional its its [the squid's] body size be a contributing factor? Using some very basical mathematics, with ML 1.05 (LRL22mm) ML 2.5 (LRL37mm) and (LRL48mm)- it appears that on a linear chart- a mesonychoteuthis could reach 4.6m in mantle length (I could share my calculations if you want)

cuttlegirl

Aug 20, '06, 11:48pm

Yikes again!

And just in case you are having trouble sleeping... the Pacific Sleeper Shark also sometimes takes chunks out of marine mammals.
http://www.conservationinstitute.org/ocean_change/predation/sleepershark.htm

Although it also preys on giant squid. This may be old news (before I became a supporter).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3370019.stm

chrono_war01

Aug 20, '06, 11:56pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3370019.stm

There goes the londen double decker bus again!

Tintenfisch

Aug 21, '06, 12:07am

Yes, we are getting a little far-fetched. :wink:

So far the LRL-ML ratio does seem to be linear in those species of squid for which these data have been collected/analyzed. For some species, the equation is even sex-specific (paper on this coming out soon... :wink:). Meso has been estimated by some authors (e.g. Nesis 1987) to attain mantle lengths of about 4m, though others (e.g. Klumov & Yukhov 1975) stick to a more conservative estimate of about 2.5m (although we know our 2.5m (ML) female wasn't mature yet).

Klumov, S.K.; Yukhov, V.L. 1975. Mesonychoteuthis hamiltoni Robson, 1925 (Cephalopoda, Oegopsida) and its significance to feeding of sperm whales in Antarctic waters. Antarktika, (14), p. 159–189.

Nesis, K.N. 1987. Cephalopods of the world (English translation). Tropical Fish Hobbyist (T.F.H.) publications, Neptune City. 352 pp.

Mizu

Aug 21, '06, 8:48am

meh
I dont know about squid but an Octopus 59 feet across would tear a whale a new one.

legendarycroc

Aug 21, '06, 2:23pm

So far the LRL-ML ratio does seem to be linear in those species of squid for which these data have been collected/analyzed.

What I mean is this-
A{250cm)/B(105cm) = 2.38
A(37mm)/ B(22mm) = 1.68

A is the Ross sea specimen. The beak/mantle length doesnt appear linear at all!

Steve O'Shea

Aug 21, '06, 3:18pm

.... Oh to go back in time and slap some sense into those drunken on sailors and whalers!!

legendarycroc

Aug 21, '06, 3:27pm

.... perhaps that 'Animal Face Off' series was not such a good idea afterall ... it seems to have spawned debates like this everywhere.

Did anyone ever see the finale - the squid/whale episode ... all 2 hours of it?

I could name you 4 of these forums right off the bat :wink: . They were all "spawned" after the deletion of the AFO boards- everyone parted and went their separate ways! A lot of us nerds are really into this stuff and spend hours typing and typing and typing trying to prove they're right. Then again- Adam Britton told me this was AFO's ultimately goal =P

The finale- I've been literally dying to see, but it still hasnt aired here in Canada. I'm still trying to get my hands on those production photos of the squid. Can you by any chance re-post them?

Steve Singarell

Oct 22, '06, 8:26pm

HELLO EVERYONE..

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE ALL WENT A FISHING AND CAUGHT A DAM BIG FISH AND WERE AMAZIED AT THE SIZE OF IT...!!!

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE SEEN THE OLD CROCK HUNTER BIND THE BIGGEST OF CROCKS WITH JEST A LITTLE BIT OF ROPE AROUND HIS BIG OL MOUTH!

CAN YOU JUST SEE THE GIANT SQUID WRAP ITS TREE TRUNK SIZE ARMS AROUND THE GIANTS MOUTH AND WITH ITS GREAT INTEL THE FIGHT IS ON..!!

Steve O'Shea

Oct 23, '06, 2:25am

hmmmmmm. welcome, steve:welcome:

Steve Singarell

Oct 23, '06, 1:33pm

THANKS FOR THE WELCOME....STEVE O'SHEA..!!!

and HELLO EVERYONE WHO LOVES "THE GIANT SQUID AND WHALES 2!"

________________________________________ _______________

Steve O'Shea

Oct 23, '06, 2:42pm

NO WORRIES

HaVe YoU sEeN tHe FiNaLe EpIsOdE?

sorseress

Oct 23, '06, 4:18pm

Dr. Steve, are you trying to tell us something? :hmm:

sorseress

Oct 23, '06, 4:20pm

Oh, and by the way, :welcome: Steve.

Steve O'Shea

Oct 23, '06, 4:59pm

Who, me?

Twaz just that Steve wrote in capitals; I thought he may have been shouting. I just wanted him to know we heard.

sorseress

Oct 23, '06, 7:47pm

Who, me?

Twaz just that Steve wrote in capitals; I thought he may have been shouting. I just wanted him to know we heard.

I figured...I was just gently tweaking your chain, which is one of my favorite past times. :sagrin:

Steve Singarell

Oct 26, '06, 2:56am

Sorseress ...Hello to you to!

Hello Dr. Steve...sorry about the volume...did not mean to shout..just lazy with all caps sometimes!

I was trying to find out what the Dr. was saying myself... Sorseress!

This is great now I can ask all my Giant Squid Questions...

Like how much would a 50 ft. squid have to eat a day lets say in pounds?

And do they attach themselves to pray and feed or do they grab and transfer to the beak?

thanks..

Steve Singarella

myopsida

Oct 26, '06, 3:21am

Like how much would a 50 ft. squid have to eat a day lets say in pounds?

As much as it likes.....

mournblade

Nov 03, '06, 11:28pm

They All float down here. When your down here with us, you'll float too!

Nice! :twisted:

Ritual of Chüd indeed! :wink:

Also sprach Vincent

ArchieFan

Nov 04, '06, 1:37am

I would have to agree with cthulhu77 on the "big fish stories" If giant squid were threatening ships, there would be a lot more forensic evidence to support that. I got a cat that gets nervous around a mouse, but that doesn't mean that a mouse might be capable of killing a cat. Giant squid are a known prey species of whales by the beaks they find in their stomachs. That forensic evidence should be a good indication of the actual maximum size of Archies. I guess it is possible that the archies might outgrow predators as large as sperm whales though. I just have a hard time believing that they could get so large that they could actually be a serious threat to a sperm whale. Besides nothing has ever washed up on shore, or caught in a net, large enough to be a serious threat to a sperm whale. My opinion on that sceanario it is just fanciful imagination. A lot of prey species can give their predators a run for their money, but that doesn't mean it's a serious threat.

ScottDV

Oct 20, '10, 2:31pm

I half-way agree, when someone imbibes too much it isn't known as "drinking like a sailor" for nothing. However, I would be careful in too easily dismissing sailors accounts of giant squids just because they are too big than what is considered 'acceptable range' to modern day marine biologists. Keep in mind the very idea of a giant squid just 150 years ago was scoffed at by scientists and anyone who claimed to have seen one bigger than several feet long was dubbed a drunken fool. So when it comes to the existence of giant squids from the start they were always a mythological creature proven to actually exists so its sailors 1 and scientists 0 in this game of tall tales and legends. We don't know enough about them to give an accurate size range, a couple dozen dead bodies floating ashore over the past 100 years out of presumably millions of RL giant squids is not a sufficient sampling to give a real size range for an animal, only a guesstimate that could be accurate or very wrong.

ScottDV

Oct 20, '10, 4:25pm

That would have to be one big squid to kill a sperm whale. Oh, where did you find that account of a right whale being killed by squid? In my eleven years of studying giant squid, I have never come across that story.

-Squidman-

Yes indeed, but if the question were changed to 'Has a Giant squid EVER killed a Sperm Whale" I would bet my life it has happened at some point in the history of this world.

The report of a giant squid killing a Wright Whale is something new to me as of yesterday (just before i found this website). I have never read it in a book before but did read a reference of it off the internet. The right Whale gets almost as big as the Sperm Whale topping out at 60 feet which is about the max of the Sperm Whale too. But in this case it was a baby Wright Whale, but even a baby Wright Whale is pretty big at most likely 9 to 15 feet long or so which is approx. the size of most Great White sharks so we have our answer to what would happen if those two ever met in combat. Now the squid supposedly drowned the Whale and since a whale is a mammal it needs air unlike a fish. However, sharks need to move to keep breathing so all a squid would have to do is grab it and hold it in a vice like grip until the fishie (shark) dies. This is probably a very boring death and counter to the Gotterdammerung battle most people here would imaging them having.

Anyway, back to the topic this is the quote I read:

In October 1966 two lighthouse keepers at Danger Point, South Africa watched a giant squid drown a baby southern right whale.
from here. http://www.pibburns.com/cryptost/kraken.htm

So killing Wright Whales for nothing but sport is an obvious exaggeration, if this happened there is no reason to believe it was other than a random and isolated event until proven otherwise (and if it did it could have done so for food not sport). For accounts like these without much supporting documentation and verification I put it in the category of 'Might be true" and not the Gospel truth. I don’t immediately dismiss them as drunken tales either though because you would be surprised how these sometimes turn out to be dead on. When it comes to these Tall Tales of Monster squids its best to classify them in three categories of True, Maybe true, and utter bullshit IMHO.

ScottDV

Oct 20, '10, 4:31pm

I agree with that insofar that a Giant Squid vs Sperm Whale battle is kind of like a He said She said story and we would only get one side of it since the Whale needs to surface to breath if it get's locked in combat therefore if it does surface it successfully is beating the squid and will win thus we can see it but if the squid wins it will STAY down at 20,000 feet plus where mankind will never see the squid emerge as the victor because the evidence says down in the deep inky depths along with the victorious squid. So who knows, I doubt they win often but they probably have before (especially if two work together against one Sperm Whale).

ScottDV

Oct 20, '10, 4:38pm

I would have to agree with cthulhu77 on the "big fish stories" If giant squid were threatening ships, there would be a lot more forensic evidence to support that.

Keep in mind in the story of the Schooner Pearl sunk by a Giant Squid it did not attack the ship until after the captain saw it floating on the surface of the water and despite the warning of an old sea hand from Newfoundland provoked it by shooting it with a rifle.

ScottDV

Oct 20, '10, 5:37pm

Hello Brennan,

Never heard that one. If something like that happened, I think it's significant that this scene was observed from a Soviet whaler. Perhaps they recovered a harpooned sperm whale that vomited up a large squid in its death throes, or killed a whale after it had surfaced with its dinner.

Clem

Here is the story:

1965. Crew of the Soviet whaler Mirny- Giant squid attacks 40 ton sperm whale, neither survive. The whale is strangled, the squid's head is bitten off.

from http://scienceblogs.com/deepseanews/2007/10/attacks_of_the_kraken.php

We have a date and a name of the ship now. For someone who is a man of means with time and money to spare, which I have little of (especially the latter) one could probably pull the crew manifests and track down the ship and then all the sailors who served on it for that year and ask them if this story is true and if they actually saw that or if it is an invented internet hoax making the rounds.

The name of the vessel was

ScottDV

Oct 21, '10, 6:55pm

Even if the average squid is much smaller and always gets eaten by Sperm Whales when they fight and that most likely is the case from what evidence we have seen over the years so far. There is a reason I am confident that a giant squid has killed a sperm whale in battle before at some point. I know most of the people here are squid and octopi enthusiasts and probably don't care much about mammals. However, let's say hypothetically a thread was started here saying "Could a coyote kill a human?" I bet most of you would say other than perhaps a small child the answer was a resounding 'NO!'

The posters here would say that was a preposterous questions and rightfully point out that:
1.) Coyotes are small, from 15 to 35 pounds on average
2.) Coyotes are shy and not aggressive around humans
3.) Coyotes prefer to hunt alone unlike their larger more viscous cousins the wolf that hunts in packs.
4.) Coyotes prefer smaller game that are easier to kill and eat like rabbits, squirrels, dogs, and cats.

Yet...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto-singer-killed-by-coyotes/article1341376/

Strange things happen from time to time...

Oct 22, '10, 3:47am

A sperm whale could die from a squid counterattack if by chance the entire squid, or its tentacle club would cover its blowhole and stay there. The force of an exhaling sperm whale's breath is, however, not a trifle matter, so I wonder if sucker rings and vacuum would suffice to pull it off, reverse pun intended.

PS: what on earth makes you think we don't care about mammals? We love them :grin:
PPS: Had you started your coyote thread, my answer would have been a resounding "yes!", by the way, coyote borne rabies kills humans easily.

DWhatley

Oct 22, '10, 4:14am

I suspect the majority of answers would be yes considering that a domestic dog can kill a human :grin:. MY dogs wouldn't of course, but trying to convince a neighbor that a 130+ dog who's head allows it to reach your dinner plate without stretching and who has huge teeth is not aggressive is somewhat difficult. I would say humans in general would answer yes to almost any animal with teeth. As a lot, we are pretty whimpy and don't do a lot of research. You would be surprised at how many people think an octopus is dangerous and not because of its poison. The tales and imagination about the sea scares most people and they will believe almost anything about that unknown without question.

ScottDV

Oct 22, '10, 11:42am

Ok, yeah I wasn't counting killing people based off of illness or disease though but good point nonetheless.

I understand what people here and other cephalopod experts try to do with educating the masses ignorant of animals and their behavior. I think the torrid imaginations of tales of Giant Squids sinking boats and plucking sailors off ships to eat them is just as ridiculous as you all do. however, I do look at both sides and when an expert gives a conclusive solid "no" answer to say that has NEVER happened before or squids NEVER get above a certain size then that's when i have an issue with is because only God and one other would know (assuming they exist).

One thing I have noticed too and it might be human nature is usually when biologists work with animals with a fierce unfounded reputation they sometimes go to far to the other side and start to become reckless or careless thinking reports of attacks are ALL unfounded and refute them. When this happens they open themselves up to a rude awakening when the animal does read the darker side of its nature. Think of Timothy Treadwell who proved most bears are not the man-eating machines that popular culture imagines them to be. Until he ran into one bad individual that basically was. Like humans animals (as any pet owner can attest to) have individual personalities and dispositions of their own and some are just bad apples. imagine running into a giant squid with the personality of a serial killer? lol

Anyway, another example of a animal with a really bad rep. is Timber Wolves, very undeserved in many ways at least as it relates to interaction (ie attacks) on humans.

Then we get experts who go too far the other direction and proclaim wolves NEVER attack humans...Now over the past 5 years we have had 2 people in North America alone that were torn apart by a pack of wolves in unprovoked attacks.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/13/nation/la-na-wolf-attack13-2010mar13
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/11/10/wolf051110.html