Hi

Welcome to Marine Conservation. This is an entirely new forum for the site, established by Tony so that we may discuss aspects of marine conservation that might not directly apply to cephalopods. However, because everything is linked, ultimately anything that impacts the marine environment will impact the cephalopod.

There is a global movement to outlaw such barbaric and medieval practices as bottom trawling, and I would imagine that this forum will enable both cephalopod experts, specialists in different disciplines, and general naturalists to voice their concerns in their areas of expertise.

Conservation is a huge field, and neither Kat nor I are experts in it. What we are trying to do here is start the ball rolling, and provide people with somewhere to express their concerns, view others, and collaborate with data. The forum has been seeded with a few popular conservation-oriented threads from Physiology and Biology; it has the potential to become quite significant for those with an interest in marine conservation.

We look forward to further posts. Read on, enjoy, and thanks for tuning in.

Us

Cool!

J

Neat-O !

TPOTH

In the sea of cortez, the mexican government (which has proven itself to be quite conservational lately, due to president Fox) finally put its foot down on the trawling in the north end of the sea...when the shrimpers came in (as they had been for years) to poach , they were warned off by coast guard cutters...they ignored them and began trawling...what a suprise when the next morning, a destroyer showed up in the bay, and sunk one of the shrimpers (after forcing the crew to leave) !!! The other shrimpers put into port, and began a massive demonstration...blocking roads, burning and overturning cars...mexican and american alike. Rocky Point is a popular destination, and some friends were blocked in for the better part of a week while the authorities got everything straightened out...all of this happened just two days after I had left, come back, and posted those O. digueti pics... :shock:

I all just like to thank the commercil fishaman of New Zealand It appears that some some people dont appreciate there voluntary commitment and importance, of the even "bottom trawling" thay are constantly provided us and scientists with lots of new specimens, and important research imformation, over a year a quota owner would pay $20,000 in levies $10,000 of that is conservation levies, alot of that money goes back in to the industy, to scientists researchers exporters,training providers, and stock managment, so cheers to those bottom trawlers and meny people who have a difference to the industry over the years and help make the NZ fisheries industry, the world leader today..............not looking for a squid, maybe you should stop eating fish ,,,, :mrgreen:

Actually, many of us have stopped eating fish.

Tell us a little more about yourself.

How old are you?
Are you a fisherman yourself?
If so, what is your usual target fishery?

I know many fishermen, and, until recently, got along famously with them (many were friends); I have been at sea on many commercial and research vessels throughout our EEZ, working the deck and processing plants, so have a pretty good idea of what goes on out there. Nobody need know your name, and we don't, so anything you say is guaranteed to be anonymous (and many retired commercial fishermen will tell you 'off the record' that the oceans are empty, the coral gone, and generally things are grim).

If you are a commercial fisherman can you honestly say:
1) That you really believe what you posted above.
2) That you really think scientists owe you a favour for saving stuff that has been ripped from the seafloor.
3) That things have not changed for the worse over time.
4) That all is well in New Zealand fisheries.
5) That bottom trawling is an environmentally friendly, appropriate means of harvesting fish.

I'll ask you one final question.
Why is it that New Zealand vessels are travelling further afield, and working deeper than they have in the past? My answer to this is because the larder is bare around our coast. Am I wrong?

Debate is good. Let's not use bad language (many kids read these forums too).

Did you no the ocean covers more than 90% of this planet??? And that Man has explored more of outer space??? fishaman did found the coral in the first place, because of them, we have discoverd, what thay have explored,

So YOu are saying (Do U eat Fish) because of the money you are paying out...everything should be on the "up and up" with scientists and fisherman..well...what about the Earth in general..fishing out a species will impact the rest of the ecosystem..

Good Fisherman are not just great hunters..they also manage their fisheries will the utmost importance.

For example..take a look at the lobster fishery in MAINE, NJ
Years of fishing...still abundance of Lobster..good fish management?

Peace, Eat fish, but know about the fish you eat, where it came from, and how it was fished. I often drive the fish monger crazy..

peace,
Gaetan

my dad is actually the guy who buys and processes 40 percent of all the fish caught in california. a very small percent of the fish is caught by bottom trawlling. right now we (meaning netmakers) are working on new drag nets that reduce bycatch and almost eliminate damage to the bottom of the ocean. i have to admit that bottom trawling is pretty bad for the ocean floor but most of the time theyre just going over the same spot hundreds of times. also, my dad being one of the few conservation-oriented people in the industry keeps quotas very low because if he lets more squid or fish live for longer they get bigger and are easier to sell to the very picky japanese people. And, did you know that 10 percent of the united states' entire export is seafood.but, to be completely honest im on Do U eat Fish's side. He's right, dont say anything until you stop eating fish. but i respect your side of the story, Steve. :arr:

Why must we keep our opinions down unless we stop eating fish?

Can't we eat fish and Manage the fisheries in the right way so we don't wipe out a species, which would inadvertantly throw a monkey wrench in the food chain??

Ask your dad?

Peace and Green Earth,
Gaetan

steve, think about it!... lots of fishaman are quoter holders and have big money invested, iam sure thay must, do all thay could to help the fisheries for there future aswell as yours :roll:

Gaetan, thats what new zealand has done, Manage the fisheries in the right way, so we can eat the fish, over in scotland and england management was far to late, and look what happend to there fishery :)

so....all is well in NZ? The fisheries are fine?

so....all is well in NZ? The fisheries are fine?


not that im the most educated on the subject, but that might get a slight rise out of Master O'Shea....

well, DO U EAT FISH is stating that they are...I'm just trying to get the facts...

G

well, DO U EAT FISH is stating that they are...I'm just trying to get the facts...

G yes all is well over here, for some species, its the best its ever been for 10 years i think it could be the water tem, changing

Global Warming? Pollution?

What species are threatened?

Thriving?

the deepsea orange roughy is threatend! couse our 50% quoter cuts were to late, tho the inshore fishey is thriving,

yes all is well over here, for some species, its the best its ever been for 10 years i think it could be the water tem, changing


REALLY??????? What about orange roughy??? Hoki????? The Hoki quota was cut last year! Sealords laid off most of their Dunedin factory staff LAST MONTH due to decreases in quota's.

Whether we like it or not ALL fisheries have an impact in some way, be it bycatch, overfishing, habitat distruction....whatever....and no I don't eat fish or any other seafood.

Check out www.forestandbird.org.nz for the best fish guide which looks at some of the commercial catches and their problems. They're not saying don't eat fish but choose wisely!

I do believe that with adequate knowledge ....which means research we can improve many of the fisheries.

DO_U_EAT_FISH what is your background? Fisher, Fishers Family, Researcher, Interested member of the public???????? What is the basis for your statement above?????? can you back it up with numbers????

FYI I am a grad student in marine science (fisheries)

Cheers

J

now we're talkin' what else Jean? I am collecting info...sponging, if you will, normal teacher stuff....

G

NIWA and the gvt of NZ, let the deepsea go down hill thay where making to much money out of over fishing, back then, you had to pay the NZ NIWA and govt money thay, would send you a bill for each kg you're over ,so if you had just little quoter or went over your TAC it was ok,to over fish, you just pay the deemed value to them, SAD BUT ITS TRUE

Well recent research is showing a change in the reproductive status of NZ sole (unfortunately unpublished stuff, we will hopefully get round to publishing it soon). The animals are larger but much more immature than in previous years. This has been shown to be an effect of fishing pressure in other flatfish.

Dare I say it Arrow Squid! (My area!) are typically reproductively overfished. It has to do with the way squid reproduce, right at the end of their lives, so they tend to be caught before they get a chance to breed (This is true of any squid fishery, the world over!)there is also bycatch of NZ Sealion in the southern trawl fishery (although here the fishers are experimenting with escapement hatches on the trawl nets yay!).

To be fair, many of the local fishers are willing to try new techniques to mitigate the effects of fishing (course many insist on doing things the way gran'paw did!). In the Golden Bay Scallop fishery, fishers have a system similar to farmers where areas are closed and left to lie "fallow" for a while, plus they reseed with artificially reared spat.

But there are still problems and I guess no system is ever going to be perfect.

I could go on but I'm on duty at the aquarium, & I s'pose I should go do some work!!

Cheers

J

NIWI and the gvt of NZ, let the deepsea go down hill thay where making to much money out of over fishing, back than, you had to pay the NZ NIWI and govt money thay, would send you a bill for each kg over ,so if you had little quoter or went over your TAC...........it was ok but you have to pay us...... SAD BUT ITS TRUE

I reiterate....who are you?????? At least I know who the NIWA scientists are and what their training is and where they get their facts from?? Oh mystery person!

J

srry jason is my name, brb

I reiterate....who are you?????? At least I know who the NIWA scientists are and what their training is and where they get their facts from?? Oh mystery person!

J
sorry my name is jason yes i have the facts i have every (seafood new zealand for professional fisherman) magazines dateing back to 1996! yes i also have a bit to do with this industry, peace :)

:alarm:

A little too much tension here.

Do_U_Eat_Fish - I'm really glad to have you here, honest, and I really am impressed that you came back and responded to a number of members online (basically it tells me that you weren't spamming, actually do have an opinion and are prepared to debate it online, and are a valued member online). Heck, in the NZ Fishing Industry I can do with whatever friend I can find - and in all honesty I have no problem with commercial fishing - what I am against is bottom trawling!

You do say that ~ 90% of Earth is ocean. True. But different species live at different depths. If you have experience with fishing, and I believe you do, correct me if I am wrong - you're either fishing 350-650m, 650-1100m, or 1100-1500m. If you have trawled for scampi or hoki you will notice one type of bycatch (typically soft-sediment); if you have trawled for orange roughy you will have noticed another type of bycatch (hard ground, basically today); if you have trawled for dories you will notice yet another kind of bycatch. This is because different species occupy different depth ranges. Presently, to the best of my knowledge, there are no commercially viable fisheries stocks at depths greater than 1500m. If there were you would notice a completely different kind of bycatch.

An argument made by the fishing industry (in NZ) is that most of the ocean is not fished, because (by default) it is too deep. HOWEVER, it has a completely different type of bycatch (fauna), so in effect you are not conserving or protecting anything at shallower depth.

I sincerely do want you to stay online, and to contact anyone you know and to get them online too. I want to bounce ideas off you. I do not want to try and convert you to my way of thinking (but at the same time you'll not convert me to yours). Some of the things that you have said already have been very true; some, of course, might raise the hairs on the back of my neck .... but if you know me, or know of some of the things that I have said or done, that should not come as any surprise.

So, what I want to do now is send you a warm and sincere :welcome: , and request that you become a regular poster on this (and any) forum.

If you saved me squid or octopus, sure I'd be excited. I'd also be upset that the animals were killed, albeit inadvertently, and would probably have to say something to this effect. It is a double-edged sword, and this is what has landed me in hot water with the industry. I am passionate about conservation - you need to eek out a living however you can (or are experienced).

Aquaculture is the future!

:twisted: ok thanks steve tell me if the fishing is so bad in new zealand why is NIWA or QMS allocating a 10% increase in quoter (ACE) for terakhi (TAR) lower north island ,its that true??? if so. why are NWIA or QMS doing that when you said ( oceans are empty, the coral gone, and generally things are grim) .hmmmmm its funny you say that! ..... i think you just proved something to me............ tell me if im wrong plz thanks :)

It's late and I could respond this eve, but I'd sooner do morrow when I have some facts (numbers) on hand.

I don't think it is like increasing the TACC for ORH off NE NZ, when we have no reliable stock estimates (to compensate for loss of fisheries elsewhere). Perhaps coastal resources are increasing .... but what sort of TACC increase (tonnage) are you talking about?

Years ago I don't recall ever eating terakhi. In fact my wife said to me tonight that she didn't like that very fish (for its taste).

I don't eat fish personally (unless I caught it myself), but I don't try and impose my ideals on my wife (she'd hit me if I did - though she is very careful in what fish she does eat .... perhaps to avoid the endless debate).

thanx matt, i think NAWI should take the blame not the fishos, hmmmm its simple, the deemed fish law that "MAF (NIWI)" brought in Devasted the fishing QMS more than anything or anyone, I wonder where there scientist were back then ?? probley looking for that squid! cheers guys :)

Looks like that darn squid has ruined more than one life!

:twisted: ok thanks steve tell me if the fishing is so bad in new zealand why is NIWA or QMS allocating a 10% increase in quoter (ACE) for terakhi (TAR) lower north island ,its that true??? if so. why are NWIA or QMS doing that when you said ( oceans are empty, the coral gone, and generally things are grim) .hmmmmm its funny you say that! ..... i think you just proved something to me............ tell me if im wrong plz thanks :) You will find that its 10% or maybe even more like 20% of the (TAC) "total allowable catch" for tarakhi(TAR) quota(ACE) for the lower north island

Why are all these people so thin minded and onesided! Sounds like you guys work for "greenpeace" DO U EAT FISH is wright. Keep up the good work fish, can i talk with you fish? I would like a copy of photos,

Well, some of us do run with Greenpeace from time to time. :wink: They certainly do know how to get attention drawn to their issues.

Why are all these people so thin minded and onesided! Sounds like you guys work for "greenpeace" DO U EAT FISH is wright. Keep up the good work fish, can i talk with you fish? I would like a copy of photos,


Well maybe but remember this without a fishing industry, there would be no need for fisheries scientist (such as me!) So I'm not out to stop fishing per se BUT I think we need to have more open dialogue.....not a diatribe (in fact I just had a great chat this am with a Sealords employee [Sealords is one of our biggest commercial fishing outfits]). Plus without fishing scientists and what we learn and pass on for management purposes we could lose the fisheries (eg Atlantic Cod etc ) THEN we are all out of pocket.......fishers, scientists, public alike.

OK I'll get off my soapbox now!:grin:


J

Is there any way to check on the IP's for "wendy" and "d-fish" ? By the spelling and inarticulation, I would perhaps hazard a guess that it is one juvenile flamer with nothing to do but borrow his Mom's pc and stir up some trouble...this happens a lot on the Herpetological forums...
All of the points raised by DF are pointless and vague, at best, and can easily be dismissed as the rantings of an under-educated person who is simply trying to get people to notice him/her.

sigh.
greg

right, both are vague and say 'fishos', 'thanx' and 'wright'.
Spelling's funny, had some trouble at another web site also, same IP, but with 10 different names ranging from 'Wanton soup' to 'A. Hitler'
but then arn't I a juvenile flamer with nothing to do but borrow his Mom's pc and stir up some trouble...

right, both are vague and say 'fishos', 'thanx' and 'wright'.
Spelling's funny, had some trouble at another web site also, same IP, but with 10 different names ranging from 'Wanton soup' to 'A. Hitler'
but then arn't I a juvenile flamer with nothing to do but borrow his Mom's pc and stir up some trouble...

Several differences CW! you weren't rude to the point of being obnoxious, you were/ are willing to listen to other points of view and you can spell!!!

J

Thanks. :grin:

Peace, Eat fish, but know about the fish you eat, where it came from, and how it was fished. I often drive the fish monger crazy..

peace,
Gaetan[/QUOTE]

:twisted: ok thanks steve tell me if the fishing is so bad in new zealand why is NIWA or QMS allocating a 10% increase in quoter (ACE) for terakhi (TAR) lower north island ,its that true??? if so. why are NWIA or QMS doing that when you said ( oceans are empty, the coral gone, and generally things are grim) .hmmmmm its funny you say that! ..... i think you just proved something to me............ tell me if im wrong plz thanks :) You will find that its 10% or maybe even more like 20% of the (TAC) "total allowable catch" for tarakhi(TAR) quota(ACE) for the lower north island

yes so i here thay did increase the TAC for (TAR) in some parts of NZ he's wright cant be as bad as all you make out to be............. about time some people should do hamework befor opening there trap, just gos to show, who's wright and who's wrong.... Off the topic BUT did you know (greenies) have the most smokest cars on the road . . . . . . . . funny aye! :tongue:

We do have a problem to solve, but the fisheries being in jeopardy are debatable depending on how myopic your viewpoint is. The REAL problem is that the number of people in the world is increasing faster than we are learning how to manage the resources that the planet has to offer. How many terrestrial species have been decimated in NZ because of the sheep, cows, and all of those non-native species of deer, as well as the trout? All of those species have to do with feeding the population of humanity, which is a habit from our earliest days of cultivation. The ocean will be no different.

It is time to stop talking about sustainability in the environment until we have a stable population. There is plenty of food available on the planet, the fact that there are more obese people in the world now than starving ones is proof of that. But how long will that last? Do you really think we will be able to stay ahead of that curve?

As an interesting sidenote, think about all of the Sci-Fi stories that have to do with an alien species coming to Earth to make slaves of us, or kill us off, just to have the resources for their own ever expanding population. Those stories are soon to be prophetic for our species if we do not curb our population surge.

In some ways, I have to blame science for many of our ails. Without it, we would never have become the dominant species of the planet, capable of extending our lifespans, which no other species can do. I believe that we will are coming upon a nexus within my lifetime, one that will require us to make really unpleasant choices about the future of the human race.

I do not, and will not, have children of my own because of my views on this.

So regardless of whether or not the fisheries are fine now, just how long do you think they can stay that way?

There was a good term for this : "thintelligence" , coined by Crichton...basically a damaged way of thinking "can I do this?" instead of "should I do this?"

The fishermen got greedy, and overfished the waters...several populations may be irretrievable. P. you are correct, if nothing is done to control mass expansion, we are going to have a dusty rock in a millenia or two.