Well, for easterners we get to see the finale 2hr episode of Animal Face Off, aka AFO, Colossal Squid vs Sperm Whale, on Sunday 12 September (in NZ 7:30-9.30pm). I don't know what happened to the US screening.

That's NZ, Australia, Thailand/eastern countries, probably India also (have we any members from India???). I haven't seen the final edit myself, so it's going to be kind-of interesting from that perspective (even though I know the outcome).

O

Steve: This sounds very interesting as usually they are things that might be better off kept as a pub arguement ("Which would win in a fight: A tiger or a shark?", "Hmmmmmmmmmmmm it depends on whether it was shallow water or not", etc.) but this is actually relevant!!

The mini-site is here:

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/animalfaceoff/animalfaceoff.html

and it apepars people who can't see it can eventually get the DVD.

People can get more information on this episode via:

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/animalfaceoff/challenge/challenge12.html

and sign up for an email update.

well...
as a resident of the us,..i won't be seeing the show...i've no tv either so gsh steve,..ruin it for me?

enquiring minds and all that. :mrgreen:

not that it should be a great mystery...considering that we've known about the colossal from evidence in the belly of the spermacetti,right?

so what happened in teh show?
Ps im incanada so i didnt c it

I'll not comment, other than say I did have a laugh or 5, and that I was amazed that the entire 2 hrs was dedicated to this programme, without recapping on earlier shows (as I thought might happen).

Some of the squid imagery was pretty good, if I say so myself .... in fact you'd be hard-pressed to tell it from the real thing (some of it).

Did anyone watch?

dr. o'shea (i dont know what else to call you) when were to called onto the show to film it?

Howdo Legendarycroc. I've been watching your posts on the AFO Bulletin board (sorry to see that basically be disbanded; my pseudonym was Mesonychoteuthis).

You can find out a lot about that AFO episode by following the latter part of the following thread:
http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360

I'm afraid I've long-since forgotten what we got up to, and when, but there should be a decent chronological account on the earlier link. There are many other images that we have here that I'm now more comfortable about posting (on the aforementioned thread), but had been reluctant to do so until the premiere.

I'm not sure if you've seen it yet (you're US based aren't you?). I actually think that this DVD/video is worth getting; I think it's better in many ways than the earlier 'Chasing Giants' (certainly more entertaining, and there's none of this 'Steve gets weepy' nonsense).
Cheers
Steve

Just watched a re-run of the show.... love that :meso: model...

wow is tht really the squid model in the show? The marks from on the sperm whale looks quite recent maybe its what drove the sperm whale to beach himself! :D

What's happening to the model now????


J

o steve do you have any pictures of the whale been made?

J, the model .... well, something is planend for it, but it does need a little TLC.

LegendaryC ... afraid I don't have any images of the whale being built; sorry
Me

(sigh)... im like never gonna see the show....here in canada only 3 AFO episodes have aired :x croc vs sahrk, lion vs tiger, hippo vs shark, and this weekend cougar vs wolf, and elephant vs rhino, next month there's gorilla vs leopard and bear vs tiger... and its probably gonna be airing like next year..... i can not wait that long!!!!!Go sperm whale (im just rooting for the whale because .....no idea)

i'm personally routing for the hippo against the schedule dept of the once tolerable network.....


hey, i know, maybe we can remodel :meso:'s apt. and thereby get on the channel...... :roll:

As much as i hate PBS, they could do 10^7 times better than the people now controlling "discovery" channel.....

hey, i know, maybe we can remodel :meso:'s apt. and thereby get on the channel...... :roll:

And if we make a gas tank for a chopper that looks like :meso: we would be sure to see it in prime time :D

Perhaps we could break a few of :meso:'s arms or something and get it sent to the ER. Or maybe we could dress it up all skankily, give it a chihuahua, have it act like an airhead, and get it shown on Fox.

I've got it:

"Queer Eye For The Straight Squid."

Carson: "Oh. My. God. Magenta is SO 2003."

:heee:

Clem

Carson: "Oh. My. God. Magenta is SO 2003."


.... as I've got sideburns, am colourblind, have 3 sets of undies with little green aliens on them, time is a continuum, and I wouldn't know what time, day, month or year it was, Magenta rocks baby!!

I thought it was one of the sillest things I have seen in a while and oh, so long winded! Steve, you must have been in fits of laughter most of the time. It looked all so serious but so overstaged...

I was wondering what happened to the model as well.

And Steve, please go and get your glasses adjusted! It is driving me spare!!!!

KRin

J, the model .... well, something is planend for it, but it does need a little TLC.
Me

Just after I posted that message I heard a little rumour bout the model......will be most excited if its's true!!!!

eeeeeeeeeeek now I'm doing the mysterious bit........it's catching..............save me :goofysca: :goofysca: :goofysca: :shock: :shock:


J

And Steve, please go and get your glasses adjusted! It is driving me spare!!!!


:shock: What's wrong with my glasses? Nobody likes my glasses!! Everyone is telling me to get my glasses fixed/changed. Why don't people like my glasses?? My favourite glasses have HUGE lenses, near-twice the size of my current ones (that are only ~ 10 years old, frame wise)!

I like my glasses!

Wait- was Steve talking about the squid back there or is he really colorblind? With alien-print underwear? :shock:

.... With alien-print underwear? :shock:

They rock!

The Regal Footed Right Honourable Sir Dr Ummmm..... has a pair too!

Hmm... where will I find these underwears with the print of green aliens? And why didn't you answer my question? And where did I park the car? :bonk:

They are so comfortable that it's almost like going commando. Way better than my Smurfwear ever was!

You're all trying to confusiateisize me emn't you?

can we go back onto the topic...?

Ooooops, slaps wrists.

Back on topic all.

Now where were we?

Oh, that's right. What rumour have you heard about the model Jean?

It's exhausting being serious all of the time! Smurfware; LOL

Oh, that's right. What rumour have you heard about the model Jean?

It's exhausting being serious all of the time! Smurfware; LOL

That it might be heading south!

J

and that means....

down to good ol' Portobello Dunedin NZ

J

And Steve, please go and get your glasses adjusted! It is driving me spare!!!!


:shock: What's wrong with my glasses? Nobody likes my glasses!! Everyone is telling me to get my glasses fixed/changed. Why don't people like my glasses?? My favourite glasses have HUGE lenses, near-twice the size of my current ones (that are only ~ 10 years old, frame wise)!

I like my glasses!

The glasses are fine but they keep slipping down your nose and you keep pushing them up - do you realise you are doing that? Most of the time you seem to have them perched on the end of your nose! My father was an optical dispenser so I know your glasses shouldn't keep falling down your face (unless you don't have enough nose..) They just need adjusting, not changing!

KRin

down to good ol' Portobello Dunedin NZ


That's a new one to me, unless it is being returned to the Natural History Unit. There's a possibility it could be going to one establishment in the South Island, but I suppose they're still negotiating. It does need a little TLC after being towed through the oceans for a few days - it doesn't look as sensational as it once did. Anyone got a spare 20K?

Hmmmmm. Re my nose - the problem is that I'm getting 'on', and am both both short- and long-sighted, so do wear them down so I can tilt the head and read anything I want, then see away away ... a long way away. I don't like bifocals ... too hard to walk with and do # 1's; got rid of them many years ago. It's one of the reasons I tend to throw my face up close to a dead animal, to see it properly (most people think I'm licking the squid, or whispering sweet nothings in its statocyst).

Oh to be 20 again!

Oh to be 20 again!
dang, senile decay is such a drag
I don't like bifocals
check out the trifocals..... :heee:
too hard to walk
hey - I've seen you walk, whilst smoking a cigarette, talking on a cell phone AND pulling a trailer with a 200kg squid at the same time . . . .
such is lif :bugout:

8)

Men can't multitask, you know that M; I'm glad I wasn't doing # 1's at the same time ... they lock you up for such things!

wow once every 10 years! i need new glasses like every year.... im only 12 and my eyes are like 300: 800~degrees...question: Steve how large are the colossal squid's beak?

Real big!!

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=3277

wow thts like 15-20cm, so a fully-grown one should be double the size, hey i just had a thought what if architeuthis, mesonychoteuthis, galiteuthis... grew as they got older, not spotting to grow like some fish...would that be possible?

down to good ol' Portobello Dunedin NZ


Hmmmmm. Re my nose - the problem is that I'm getting 'on', and am both both short- and long-sighted, so do wear them down so I can tilt the head and read anything I want, then see away away ... a long way away. I don't like bifocals ... too hard to walk with and do # 1's; got rid of them many years ago. It's one of the reasons I tend to throw my face up close to a dead animal, to see it properly (most people think I'm licking the squid, or whispering sweet nothings in its statocyst).

Oh to be 20 again!

I understand about bi-tri focals - I'm an artist and find myself having trouble finding a close focus point to thread a needle.

What's wrong with whispering sweet nothing to a squid? Licking one might be taking it too far...

I was an awful person when I was 20 - I was shy I would flee from shops if the anyone asked me if I wanted any help.

KRin

Hey guyz, i have a question. What is the total length of galiteuthis spp.?

Good question. Have you been to the Tree of Life page for the genus (http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Galiteuthis&contgroup=Taoniinae)? I assume that you have, and that perhaps you found only mantle lengths there. :?

:mesonych:

(family resemblance)

aye.. thts the web i went to, im assumaing the total length 7-8metres long but im not sure i wanna know, cuz im working on a science project called monsters of the deeps im writing about mesonychoteuthis architeuthis galiteuthis, sperm whale and the oarfish.

The late, great Kir Nesis was not one to exaggerate, and must have had very good reason to cite a possible mantle length of 2.7m for Galiteuthis phyllura. Not only would such a monstrous mantle render this the 'largest species of Galiteuthis', but it would give the species a mantle that was considerably longer than that of Architeuthis , and marginally longer (0.2m) than the submature Colossal Squid (Mesonychoteuthis) we reported last year.

What amazes me is that the adult has never made the press (that I am aware of). Even if Galiteuthis lacks hooks on the arms it would still be a most frightening squid to bump into in the abyss.

Xcuse me sir but somebody refered me to u about caring for squid (kinda). They said u had alot of problems can u tell me about it? I am trying to raise some squid of my own and I have no clue how. Got any pointers or warnings? Im really new to this sort of thing. Thx a million! :mrgreen:

uh steve do you know whats the total length of an adult g. phylura? And why would it be the most terrifying squid?Accoring to http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Galiteuthis&contgroup=Cranchiidae
g. phylura does have hooks on its 2 long tentacles

o another thing i read somewhere on tht web tht architeuthis could reach a mantle length of 5 metres could tht be true?

Xcuse me sir but somebody refered me to u about caring for squid (kinda). They said u had alot of problems can u tell me about it? I am trying to raise some squid of my own and I have no clue how. Got any pointers or warnings? Im really new to this sort of thing. Thx a million! :mrgreen:

Howdo there Octomush. I've just had a chat with Nancy; sorry that I missed your earlier posts in Ceph Q & A, but what I'll do is refer you back to Ceph Q & A and check out your posts there.

Yes, it has been extremely difficult to keep squid (for old people like me), but we've figured out a few basics now and I'm sure that if you get a few basic pieces of equipment - a cylindrical tank (and if you cannot get this, something like a concrete cow trough or 200 litre drum, kept outside with a shelter over the top [to stop rain water getting in]) you'll be able to do it. The trick is in the food, and getting lots of it, live, so you'll probably need 2 drums or troughs, or one nice cylindrical tank and another for keeping your food in.

I just need to know what sort of species you want to keep alive, whether you are collecting them as adults or as 'babies', or trying to do this from eggs.

I'll see you over in Ceph Q & A soon,
Toodles
Me

uh steve do you know whats the total length of an adult g. phylura? And why would it be the most terrifying squid?Accoring to http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Galiteuthis&contgroup=Cranchi idae
g. phylura does have hooks on its 2 long tentacles

Yup, hooks on the tentacles, but not on the arms. As to the total length of the thing, well, that I don't know. I would imagine that the arms are considerably shorter than the mantle, so perhaps (if the mantle was 2.7 metres long), the arms might only be 2 metres long; the tentacles are probably not much longer than 4 metres (on a fully mature specimen, ML ~ 2.7m), so the total length would actually be ML (2.7m) + head length (~ 0.5m) + tentacle length (~ 4m), to give 7.2m (~22 feet) [you don't add the arms in, as the tentacles start at the base of the arms, and being longer you just take that measurement]. Please understand that this is just an educated guess!!

As to Architeuthis reaching 5 metres mantle length ..... no, I do not believe this for one second - not even a millisecond .... nor a squintillionth of a billionth of a second. The web is full of these exaggerated claims, and this is one that must not be taken seriously!

then tht'll mean g. phylura will only be 5~ metres long! Rather short...lol...i think around 6-8 metres because the guess you made of meosnychoteuthis is 10-12 metres, and the mantle length of galiteuthis is a bit less than 2/3 of the ML of mesonychoteuthis, 2/3 of 12 metres is 9 M, and 2/3 of 10 M is 6.6 M, so i estimated 6-8 metres long...

then tht'll mean g. phylura will only be 5~ metres long! ...


No, no no, G. phyllura would be ~ 7 metres (~ 7.2 as per my earlier post); you are right in estimating it to be 6-8 metres in TL.

Wopps i think i misread it... o well....hehe im gonna get like 110 % in this cuz im handing it in early... its actually due next week :) :D THNX!

steve did u know the whale was gonna win before they told u the results?

I still don't get how the whale shook the squid off when it had all those suckers and hooks...

steve did u know the whale was gonna win before they told u the results?

Ja; in fact the squid came an electron close to being the winner .... but I didn't want that (there'd have been an uproar); in fact we sat around a table and discussed it, and I insisted that the whale win.

canna figure how the whale shook the squid

The whale charged to the surface; the squid holding on for dear life (and digging in), met with too much water resistance, basically slipping down the whale's massive head, eventually falling off. It was then toast.

lol, thts making me hungry....how much did the 2 models weigh?

Unfortunately I have seen only one of the episodes (shark vs. crocodile), and it was really interesting, but I have to say that it was often highly populistic. It is also interesting that despite some of their "calculations" seems to be completely wrong. For example the hypotethical fight lion vs grizzly. They write that a lion would easily kill a grizzly, because it is faster, and the grizzly had no chance. Interestingly there were in fact around 1900 some pit fights with grizzlies, and they killed even large male lions with ease, smashing their spines or skulls with one blow of their paws.
But in the case spermwhale vs. colossal squid they were surely right, a squid has no chance against such a megapredator like Physeter macrocephalus.

For example the hypotethical fight lion vs grizzly. They write that a lion would easily kill a grizzly, because it is faster, and the grizzly had no chance. Interestingly there were in fact around 1900 some pit fights with grizzlies, and they killed even large male lions with ease, smashing their spines or skulls with one blow of their paws.

Sordes,
I believe you're speaking of the "AFO game"- we had several conflicting arguments of that game on several other forums like GZS, AVA and the original "AFO boards" (where my roots originated). The game was concluded to be created by the curator of the Discovery Channel forum- though expert opinions were noted, they were only "evidence" that may support the victory of animal A. After much debating on this topic- I personally discovered yet another flaw with the game, that is- they used a measurement scale: Animal A will win x/10. When infact even if you have combatents as closely matched as lion and tiger- the victor may very well win 9/10, and given another set out of 10, it may only win 6.

Many 20century bear vs bull/lion fights were exaggerated. Lairweb does provide several accounts like so but nonetheless this site has no reference! Most sites deem it uncredible for this reason. There are, however real accounts of bull/ bear fights described in a book that a friend of mine has, though the bear does not win with a single strike to the head.

I saw it...2 years ago? I remember it was a month before TONMOcon.

I remember the part where they put the squid between the mech-sperm whale and they made it bit down on it all in the name of science...

in fact the squid came an electron close to being the winner .... but I didn't want that (there'd have been an uproar); in fact we sat around a table and discussed it, and I insisted that the whale win.

Steve,
Who do you think would really win in such a hypothetical fight betweena fully grown mesonychoteuthis and sperm whale, and why?

@legendarycroc: I´m not Steve, but I think it would be highly unprobable that even the largest Mesonychoteuthis had any chance against a sperm whale. Even despite the fact that this squid are true monsters with hooks, tentacles and a fierce beak, they are still very tiny compared to a sperm whale. A Mesonychoteuthis with a mantle length of 4m would have a weight somewhere between 1 and 1,5 tons, about as much as a big white shark. But even a smaller bull sperm whale has a weight of about 15 tons or more, the squid had no possibility to hurt the whale in a serious way.

Despite off-topic I wanted also say something additional to the animal -face-offs: Last year a brown bear attacked some yaks of Reinhold Messner (the famous mountaineer) who had brought some of this animals to Tirol. One bull was so badly hurted, that it died the next day. Yaks are very strong animals, and the bear was no grizzly but only a european brown bear, which are a good bit smaller than their american cousains.