I've seen some sumps online that use a normal tube to gravity feed water into their sump, and then use a pump to pump it back into the main tank.

Instead of buying a pump to force the water backup to the main tank, would it be ok to use a powerhead?

Or am I completely off track here?

Yeah, a powerhead would be fine... i used to use a Hagen 802 powerhead to pump water about 4 feet or so high :)

So all that nonsense told to my by the fish guys about drilling and tapping holes in my tank (and how much $$$ it would cost) was a load?

This makes things so much easier, I'll just buy a little 10 gallon tank and use that as a sump.

I do have one more question however:

Since the water running to the sump is going to be powered by gravity, if the powerhead was too powerful it would pump faster than water gets into the sump correct? How could I maintain a balance?

Appreciate all the help!

Unless you use a really large powerhead it won't be an issue. 1" overflows are rated for at least 600 gph. I have two 1" overflows and a 1000gph return pump and have no issues.

Okay, i misunderstood your question due to term use...

'gravity fed' means that there is normally a hole at water level or on the base with an upstand, and water freely flows through the hole by gravity into the sump through a pipe. This is what most people have and I would call a gravity fed / overflow sump system.

I think you are asking about a syphon fed sump, that normally sits on the back of the tank and works via a syphon from one tank to the other and is returned by a pump.

You are correct in thinking that to balance a lower sump with a syphon is tricky, in fact, its pretty much impossible as one wrong move floods your floor!


OR, if i was initially right, like Randy in his post, that you are just wondering about water leaving your tank via a hole at a slower rate than its being pumped up then yes that is also a situation to figure out.

My cuttle tank for example had 3 holes drilled at water level and returned by a 802 powerhead, that worked fine... 3 because i was making sure that if one hole got blocked the other two would be easily able to cope...

hope you can settle this :) have you seen a pic online to point to?

Originally I was asking about a syphon, whether or not it would work. I suppose that's a negative.

So, I do need to get a hole tapped just below the water line in my main tank and then place a 1" line/pipe going form the main tank to the sump. Then use a powerhead to return the water via another hole tapped just below the water line?

I assume I would just seal around the tubes with regular aquarium sealant?

Also, where do I get glass tapped for something like this?

Thanks again.

You can do it yourself if you have a bit. Do you have glass or acrylic? Acrylic is easy, use a portable drill and a hole cutting bit. Glass you need a diamond edged bit, or a dremel with a special glass cutting bit. Call a few local glass shops and pet stores and see if they can do it if you don't want to. I drilled two 3/4" holes in a 20 gallon glass and they came out fine, but I was nervous and the tank was only a $20 loss if I broke it.

Ah, I consider myself reasonably handy so I think I'll give it a shot.

The holes, how far below the water line should I place them on the main tank? And where should I place them in the sump?

Ah, I consider myself reasonably handy so I think I'll give it a shot.

The holes, how far below the water line should I place them on the main tank? And where should I place them in the sump?

I drilled mine about 1 1/2" from the top of the tank, I think 1- 1 1/2" is about the norm. If you're using a powerhead just submerge it in your sump and no drilling is required. If you use an external pump you'll want the holes fairly close to the bottom. I'd drill them so the hole lines up perfectly with the pump suction. You'll also need to go out and buy some bulkheads.

Ok, so let me see if I fully understand before I begin.

Drill a 3/4" hole 1 1/2" from the top of my main tank. Then, drill another 1 1/2" from the top of the sump. I'm assumimg just get a couple 90* elbows and some pipe to connect them and seal with some aquarium sealant?

Then submerge the powerhead into the sump and have either a 3/4" hose or pipe connect it back to the main tank? I'm assuming I'd have to dirll another 3/4" hole for the return line as well?

So basically, three 3/4" holes, two in the main tank, one for the sump? All about 1 1/2" from the top?

I did some quick searching @ homedepot.com and this (http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@0026819414.1092870060@@ @@&BV_EngineID=ccdjadcmfleljekcgelceffdfgid gnl.0&MID=9876) was all I could find in the way of glass bits.

I did find one 3/4 inch diamond tipped bit here (http://www.diamondburs.net/34biton14shank.html) but it's $41 dollars!

Did you just make the outline of a 3/4" circle and cut it out with a dremel? :?:

One last request, could you provide a link to some good bulkhead information?

Thanks again for all the help!

Found a great 'how-to' with pics on how to drill the glass located here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=234382&highlight=drilling+glass).

I'll be picking up a dremel this friday along with some glass cutting bits to try it out on a 10 gallon. Suppose I should pick up some bulkheads first.

its a brave person that drills a tank FULL of water!!! LOL

make sure that you spray the drill bit and water ALL THE TIME, keep it really wet or thats when it will go wrong, A job I did last year, or was it two years???, involved me building and drilling about 800 tanks in a few weeks... never again!!!! LOL

Well, I decided to go out and buy a dremel and try this.

Also, rather than purchasing some bulkheads, I just bought a few pieces of PVC. I figured as long as the water flowed down, I really didn't need a bulkhead.

Let me tell you, using a dremel and spraying water by yourself is tough! :bugout:

Here are some pictures. The first picture is from the outside, the 2nd from the inside. I suppose I should probably take out the o-ring.

http://filepit.freewebs.com/sarcazmo/dsc00999.jpg

http://filepit.freewebs.com/sarcazmo/dsc01000.jpg

I should of put the threads out but oh well. It's only a 10 gallon tank that cost me 10 dollars from petsmart. I'll make sure to not make that mistake on my main tank however.

I'm going to make sure it works tomorrow. If it does, I'm going to drill the hole in my main tank.

Please tell me I'm on the right track :jester:

Good luck, let us know how it works out.

If you can do it outside take a hose and tape it on the tank so that water can constantly flow onto the spot you're cutting.

Good luck and let us know how your homemade bulkheads work out.

Well done!!! :)

I have only ever used the circular diamond drill bits before, gow long did that take?

Took me about a 1/2 hour of dremeling because I had to dremel with 1 hand and spray water with the other. (One of those portable little mister things would have been a godsend)

Here's a tip though. Once you make the initial hole in the middle of the glass, make a line from top to bottom. Once that is done, make one from left to right. That way you can cut the hole out in quarters and have a much cleaner hole.

Unfortunately I didn't have a gasket or anything to seal it with, so I just used a ton of Dap Aquarium sealant. I'm going to test it out tomorrow, but I think it should work. (Not the prettiest way of doing it but I was way anxious to practice)

The hole I drilled is going to be powered by gravity to fill up my sump.

I do have some questions about getting water back to the top however. If I were to use a powerhead, should I create another hole in the bottom of the tank, and just fasten the powerhead to the bottom and make another pipe that returns water to the top? Any particular powerhead reccomendations?

Also, should I go with making my own type of bulkheads or just order some? If anyone knows of any good plans online, I'd appreciate 'em.

I do have some questions about getting water back to the top however. If I were to use a powerhead, should I create another hole in the bottom of the tank, and just fasten the powerhead to the bottom and make another pipe that returns water to the top? Any particular powerhead reccomendations?.

Don't try drilling the bottom of the tank. Two reasons: a lot of tanks have tempered bottoms and there's no need for it. Just run a hose or pipe from your pump up the back of the tank and over the edge of the tank. If you have the water return much below the waterline you'll need a check valve to prevent siphoning if you pump were to ever fail.

Also, should I go with making my own type of bulkheads or just order some? If anyone knows of any good plans online, I'd appreciate 'em.

I'd just buy a couple bulkheads, they're fairly cheap and it'll save you from any potential headaches. There's a lot of DIY stuff on reefcentral, but not much about keeping octo's as pets.

Here's a picture of how I plumbed in my returns:

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean out the bottom of the tank, but the bottom of one of the sides. That way I could leave the powerhead closer to the bottom, but I don't think that will be necessary now. 1 1/2 from the top should do the trick with the powerhead I have in mind.

Think it'd be ok for me to only have 1 return?

Is your top acrylic?

Are these (http://aquariumpros.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P34BHKIT) bulkheads alright? I'm having a tough time figuring out if some site's bulkhead kits include everything.

Those bulkheads are fine.

I siliconed a couple pieces of acrylic across the back top 1/3 of the tank. I drill holes in that for my probes, pump returns and air lines. My canopy rests right in front of thos pump returns. If my octo tries to escape he can climb on top of the tank under the canopy, but can't go any further. This makes it easy for me to get into the tank, allows for good air contact with the water surface and keeps the tank escape proof.

Here's two pictures. The second is inside the canopy with the door open. The first is the back side, you can see how the canopy rests on the top.

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=3050

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=3051

[edited by colin to include pics]

That's a very nice setup you have there! :shock: Hopefully mine will be alright.

I'm going to order two bulkheads, hopefully the'll arrive by Wednesday. I'm still working out on all my positioning etc.

Do your return lines extend to just beneath the surface, or are they just above?

Also, do you think one return line for my tank would suffice? And what size pump would you recommend?

Found some good information here (http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html).

Still have some questions though. I'm not understanding how to determine the flow rate from the main tank to the sump, can anyone explain how to do that? A link is provided to figure out what size pump, to use, but not to establish the flowrate.

It also says to drill 1/8" holes 1/2" below the waterlevel in you return live. If you're using a pump to push water back up to your tank, wouldn't water squirt out of those holes?

Can't wait for my bulkheads to arrive, then it's time to drill my main tank and test out to see if gravity is going to do it's job. :)

Thanks again for all the help!

it will squirt a wee bit of water out but not very much and is its under the water level you wont notice it...

the reason why you do this is to break a syphon.

EG if the power goes off, water could start travelling backwards down your return pipe and keeping syphoning out until it reaches the bottom of the return which could be a foot or more under the surface!!!! Flooding your sump!

But if you have a small hole 1/8 " of the way down under the water the level can only drop so far before taking in air and breaking the syphon

Cheers
Colin

u can also cheat by putting a check valve on the return line, that will keep it from back flowing. usually u can find them at ur local home improvement center.

Do your return lines extend to just beneath the surface, or are they just above?

I have a check valve and it only goes about an inch under the water line. If the check valve sticks open the sump will be able to hold all the water that gets siphoned down. Only one return is from the sump, the others are from a closed loop. That keeps my tank powerhead free. If you have it just above the surface of the water you could end up with a lot of bubbles, which often looks bad.


Also, do you think one return line for my tank would suffice? And what size pump would you recommend?

One return should be fine, unless your pump is rated really high. After headloss I think I have about 800gph going through my sump. My return line is 3/4" and then I have a 20" piece of modular hose with nozzles on it. Modular hose is handy but not required, but you can use it to make the water do anything you want.

Here's a couple tips on your sump though. Buy a nylon type mesh sack to put all your bioballs in, then drop that sack into your wet dry filter. I know aquaticeco.com sell these sacks and you can buy them at some clothing stores too. If you ever need to take out your bioballs it makes that real easy to do. I've read that fresh air makes wet dry filters more efficient, so take an air pump and run a round bubble disc on the bottom of your wet dry filter. You can just set it on the eggcrate before you put all the bioballs in. If your bioballs are already in you can just slide it under the eggcrate and have it rest on the bottom of your sump. This keeps fresh air going up and the water trickles down.

Alrighty, that cleared up some of my questions.

As soon as my bulkheads arrive I will be plumbing the whole tank, and then testing it. So hopefully middle of next week I'll have some new stuff to show ya. (Must remember to pick up a check valve)

I am still worried about one thing. I still dont' know how to figure out my flow rate from a 3/4" tube. Because of this, I'm worried I'll buy a pump that'll either pump too much or too little.