Feeding Cuttlefish

[Cephdoc]

Hi again with another question. These questions are to clear things up for me that are still foggy after countless hours of reading :P! Will someone please give me a detailed guide on feeding regulations on Cuttlfish. Specifically S. Bandensis? From Babies to Adulthood. Mainly looking for how much to feed them, and how often? I know primarily what needs to be fed. Im just thinking ahead and wondering about costs, and keeping the live food in separate holding systems? Ex: Keeping fiddlers, Shore shrimp etc.. Also was brought to my attention that i could possibly raise and keep peppermint shrimp to feed to them? I thought maybe that was alittle more expensive than i wanted to go, but could it work?
Thanks:grin:

[DWhatley]

Raising peppermint shrimp is difficult, however getting them to spawn in a breeder net I have found to be easy. While I was growing out the hatchling briareus, I placed a pair of peps in a breeder net that would allow the babies to enter the water column but contain the adults. I kept the adults overfed and they spawned every couple of weeks. I am not sure if the hatchlings were able to take advantage of the food but there was no question that it was available.

[cuttlegirl]

This was from one of my threads, will be searching for more information...


Plan on spending $20-80 per week on live food (depending on how many cuttles you have...). I have three and am currently spending $80 for 200 shore shrimp every 7-10 days...

[Cephdoc]

Three will eat 200 shore shrimps as adults in 7-10 days?!!!! Oh my!!

[Cephdoc]

I was going to go more of the fiddler crab option when they get older because they seem to be cheaper unless im completly wrong.. How many shrimp a day then? Does that depend on the size of both the cuttle and the shrimp? I just assumed one crab per cuttle a day? If the crab is decent size? On Sachs 100 fiddlers are roughly $90, as in comparasion are 200 shore shrimp. Remember im asking about adults here. I know as babies they need the mysids and multiple feedings a day.. Correct?
Thanks

[Cephdoc]

I thank you both for the input.. You two seem to be the only ones who want to deal with me:sad: I hope its not because im so new.. I thought maybe we are just on alot too. I really hope all goes well. Im worried about it more and more as i talk with you guys. Is that a bad thing. I want whats best for me, and them. Please continue the positive feedback!:grin:

[corpusse]

When I kept them they would eat between 1-2 Shore Shrimp per day. I'd usually feed them 5-6 times a week.

I cannot remember how many mysids per today but it would start at 1-2. You actually want them to eat as many mysids as fast as possible. The sooner you get them onto shore shrimp the cheaper and easier it will be for you.

You can also start adding pods from other tanks assuming you have them once they get to the stage where they are eating 4-5 mysids at a time and are big enough to handle the tougher amphipods.

[Riverwatch-Mick]

I've 7 Sepia officinalis and have been struggling to keep them fed on live shore shrimp. I regularly go out to a local sea lough and gather up a bucket of shrimp and sand gobi's at low tide. The cuttles seem to favour the sand gobi's over the shrimp. At this time of the year I am catching less and less shrimp. I'd like to keep their diet balanced but don't like resorting to feeding them frozen food. Should I be making an extra effort to collect shrimp or do you reckon the sand gobi's will be enough to keep them happy and healthy until there are more shrimp available come the spring.

[DWhatley]

Do you find any small crabs in your tidal hunt? The bendensis we keep will eat them and it would provide more balance. Most of what I have found on diet is for octopuses since that is what I keep but all the reports of trying to feed them fish showed is as a poor standard diet.

[zeekat]

@ Mick: I also have S officinalis, I guess we 're the only ones one this board. Why don' t you want to feed frozen food?

@Cephdoc: When keeping in mind that the fatty acid profile of marine and freshwater crustaceans is not all that different, you could culture some freshwater "cherryshrimp" Neocaridina sp. I keep these as well, they are very low maintenance and reproduce VERY well.

I don' t have any experience with bandensis, but if I feed S officinalis more than 2 appropriate sized items they will chase and kill it but not eat it

[Cephdoc]

So zeekat clear this up, you are stating that i could have luck with Bandensis eating them when in turn your Officinalis do not?

[zeekat]

Where do you read that the S officinalis do not eat Neocaridina? They even take terrestrial woodlice!

Maybe my English is lacking some finesse or something?

[zeekat]

I meant if I give more than 2 prey items a day (of 'good' size) they no longer eat but still chase other prey.
I thought that would answer your (Cephdoc) question about how much to feed.

[Riverwatch-Mick]

I have a good selection of crabs in a seperate tank but not enough of the size that my cuttles would eat. I have been searching for a good batch of juvenile shore crabs of the right size. so far the cuttles are eating the sand gobi's but I'd worry that they aren't getting the right balance in their diet. They usually devour whatever shrimp I put in.

They have shown that they will eat frozen food. I've used frozen mysis that I put in with live mysis in the beginning and they eventually took to eating it. I'd just prefer to feed them live food.

My main worries are that they aren't getting enough of the food that they would get in the wild.

@ Zeekat; Do you have any problems with butt burn with your Sepia Officinalis. I have two in a seperate tank that seem to have done damage to themselves and spend alot of their time near to the surface. I have spent alot of time nursing them towards eating and nearly praying that they recover to some degree so that they can enter in to the large tank I have the rest in.

I think they are great but as I am new to keeping cuttles I feel my ignorance could be fatal at this point. I keep a wide variety of marine and freshwater fish as well as other invertebrates in a set of aquariums so their is no issues with water quality. It's just my lack of knowledge towards cuttle fish. Which is why I'm releived to find this site.

[zeekat]

@ Mick: For the time being no butt burn, I hope this will not change.
I had no previous experience with cephalopods neither, but I have had tanks for 26 years.

[Riverwatch-Mick]

I now have five but they are in fine condition and have taken well to frozen mysis. I've also managed to find enough small shore crabs to give them some live food. I'm no longer going to keep cuttles in a small, seperate, quarantine tank. I lost the two with buttburn and believe by isolating them in the smaller tank I did them no favours. Lesson learned much to the detriment of two cuttles.

[Thales]

Its difficult to give you info like you need to order X amount of crabs/shrimp for x amount of cuttles because lots depends on the size of the cuttle and the size of the food item - and worse, keeping live food alive can be problematic. I like to feed S. bandensis twice a day both for nutrition and to keep them busy, especially if they are mating or laying eggs. You can get them onto frozen foods which can be cheaper and easier. Sourcing food, and keeping it stocked is one of the hardest parts of cuttle husbandry. Freshwater ghost shrimp work well and are often easier to get than saltwater prey items.

Growing your own food in enough numbers to keep cuttles healthy seems like a daunting task. 4 cuttles eating twice a day is 56 food items per week.

Nice to see Europeans here posting about S. officinalis - we generally don't have them in the US because there is not much of a market for them because of their size and because they are just hard to get.

[Cephdoc]

Thanks Thales! I appreciate the input! Another question? As long as they arent treated with copper as a live food source will Guppies work to feed to them whne big enough? Because arent guppies really easy to breed and raise? So i guess my ultimate question is, is that since saltwater crabs and shrimps are more expensive and harder to get than freshwater prey items. Can that be a substitute in the long run when they get old enough? Not a perminant replacement, but just to cut costs?

[Thales]

Thanks Thales! I appreciate the input! Another question? As long as they arent treated with copper as a live food source will Guppies work to feed to them whne big enough? Because arent guppies really easy to breed and raise? So i guess my ultimate question is, is that since saltwater crabs and shrimps are more expensive and harder to get than freshwater prey items. Can that be a substitute in the long run when they get old enough? Not a perminant replacement, but just to cut costs?

Thats iffy. Freshwater fish have a very different nutritional profile than saltwater fish, so as a long term food they are not so good. As treats or something to get you through a week until you have better food. I wouldn't use them as a regular food, even though guppies can be acclimated to saltwater.
Sailfin mollies could work, but raising any fish as food yourself is not that easy. The rule of thumb is that you need 4 times the gallonage of your display to raise food, but I think that is optimistic. You need enough food of the right size when you need it and it takes time for the little fish to grow.

[DWhatley]

We need a "chicken of the sea". Something that grows quickly and has high food value in both egg and adult form.

[Riverwatch-Mick]

I have no problem finding large shore crabs but difficulty finding small ones the right size for the cuttles I have. They are quite young and can just about manage crabs their own size (1 - 2 inch). I was considering crushing up a large crab and putting it in to the tank for two of the smaller cuttles to get a feed. I've been psyching myself up to do it for the last two hours. I hate killing anything but don't wan't to see the two smaller ones miss out on the benefits of a good feed.

I'm aware of this fiendish plan not working and a poor shore crab's sacrifice being for nothing.

[DWhatley]

You could freeze the crab first. I do this with hermits that I want to feed out of the shell. Freezing is possibly a less tramatic death than smashing and is a bit easier for the human psyche. Freezing also allows you to try putting it in there whole to see if they will attack it, then you can try smashing it if they don't

[Cephdoc]

I was at Menards today with my father. I went to the storage section and was looking at their heavy duty storage totes... I have this idea of keeping fiddler crabs in one of those totes. Supplying water and food for them with a sandy bed. Is this a good idea? Instead of ordering them every week, actually having them on hand. Has anyone ever had success with this? Lot of 10 are $15 and 20 are $25 from Sachs.. Ive read they eat strawberries and or bannanas? Also Sachs says to keep them in water and change the water daily? If i go the sand route would maintinence be greater or less than just keeping them in water? Also i have questions on Amphipods and Mysids? I have a 20 gallon glass tank, could these be housed in there as food for the babies with an airstone and some food? More the Amphipods than the Mysids... I know the Mysids are cannibals!! HA, but will the baby cuttles prefer the mysids over the Amphipods? I am just worried about running out of food and i would like to have them on hand to net out and put in there when i feed.. trying to keep away from ordering all the time of possible.

[DWhatley]

The problem is not so much the storage but the quantity they consume. The mysis seem to either die or be eaten and ordering larger quantities seems only to cost more money without going any further than about two weeks (sometimes less). Once they can eat fiddlers, you will not need the smaller live foods and should be able to train them to frozen mysis even before they can eat the crabs.

The crabs will keep as Paul suggests for about a month. I use brackish water and two rocks in an old salt pail (Paul also says or when the water smells :grin: and I change the water weekly or "when the water smells" with only a few losses.) If I remember to check the habitat and catch one about to die (not moving much) or dead without smell, I freeze it and thaw and feed when I am out of live food. However, I keep octopuses and I don't know if anyone has tried thawed fiddlers with the bendensis.

[Cephdoc]

Fiddlers will only keep for a month :(.. darn. I was hoping longer :( I might not want to set up all this then. I was hoping to get 20-40 and keep for a good amount of time when the time came.

[Reef Geek]

I don't know if anyone has tried thawed fiddlers with the bendensis.

I have not tried a thawed fiddler, but I did have success getting my bandensis to eat a dead fiddler that had just died. He still doesn't like to grab things that don't move, so I was just moving it a bit with my glass scraper and he went for it. Seems he's used to my tools for working on the tank and isn't afraid of them at all.

But overall, I keep live fiddlers and live shrimp (from the local bait shop) in a 40g breeder in my garage. I have no problem keeping the fiddlers for a month or more but the shrimp don't seem to make it as long. Not sure why yet, so they get the first dates with Mr. Cuttles.

I've tried keeping fiddlers in just a few inches of water with rocks to get out on, but I've had just as much success with a full tank and no way out of the water. Got that tip from the bait shop and it works! I also use the same salinity as my cuttle tank.

I have fiddlers and large shrimp in abundance so I'll try the frozen/thawed crab idea next and see what I get.

[DWhatley]

I have had long term success (unintentional) with keeping them in a full aquarium set up but they did have access to the overflow box or other items in the tank to get above the water (usually they stayed below). This had made me wonder if crowding may be more of an issue than the tank itself. Nancy had some that lived over a year in a sand environment outside. However, I never count on more than a month, month and a half when I buy them.

Females with eggs seem to die the most easily. For a long time I would experiment to see if the eggs would hatch but never had any luck and the females died. Now I feed berried crabs so the octopuses get the benefit of the eggs.

[Cephdoc]

Reef Geek.. You only have one Cuttle? I plan on eventually keeping 5 in my 75. Hopefully with success i can keep 5 alive after at least 5 hatch from a batch of eggs. So yes i need some sort of food source all the time.

[Reef Geek]

Yes, unfortunately my batch of eggs didn't fare so well and only 1 has survived. I think the refugium I kept the eggs in was too warm as it ran with my reef tank. My next batch I plan to use a cooler environment for the eggs and see if I get better results. I have a 110g L-shaped tank that I'd love to have multiple cuttles in.

Fortunately for me, living in Florida has been a big help with regards to cuttle food. I caught my own mysis for the hatchlings and either caught or found larger food at bait shops when the need arose.

The 40g breeder is working out great for keeping live food on hand. I just use an OTB filter and an air stone for circulation, thin sand-bed and maybe 20lbs of LR scattered over the bottom. I don't even do water changes, just top it off as needed. It's just for food, so no special lighting. This has worked for about 6 months now with great results.

[Cephdoc]

Where did you get your eggs? I am going to keep my eggs in a clear fish holder in the top of the tank. Do you think that should be fine. I am currently running the tank at about 77 degrees. Im not too sure what the temp should be after reading alot of different things.

[Reef Geek]

I used a breeder-net hung at the top, but my temp stays closer to 80. Not sure how much flow you can get thru your fish-holder without the holes being large enough for a newly hatched bandensis to slip thru, but that's a topic for another thread. 8)

But I ordered a couple of eggs from a store in N.Y. and the rest my LFS came up with for me.

[Cephdoc]

The flow doesnt seem to be that great through it, i just bought it today on clearance... $2.00 lol. Anyways, there has to be alot of flow for them in the holder? :( well that was a wasted 2 bucks! I wanted something i could monitor them in besides just a breeder net... hmmm.

[DWhatley]

I think Thales cut out a panel and replaced it with netting for some he used. Hopefully he will chime in and explain. I don't remember if he cut out the ends or the side opposite the tank wall. If I am remembering correctly, he left the side he kept at the tank wall solid so that he could monitor and photograph without the net interference.

[Cephdoc]

I think i understand now, the water gets "dead" without the exchange of new fresh water then right?

[Cephdoc]

Its not very big at all... i hope it will work, i will upload a quick pic here... its full of algae right now lol. And if this is the case i will open the box and turn over the algae for the night and let some new water in.

[DWhatley]

Not so much "dead" as stagnant, polluted and low on oxygen (important!)

[Cephdoc]

Here are some pics of it, showing the slits in the lid and sides. Im sure i could fabricate alittle netting though :) cutting out the back or something... if i cut out the sides.. then it might not float. and it floats really well (to my surprise).

[DWhatley]

They also dump over really well too (albeit, I was using a cascade filter when I used one like it but it doesn't take much). I would not leave it unsecured. An algae cleaner magnent works well but you will need to keep the tank water level. If you are using a sump this should not be an issue but I kept a fixed one in my sump and had a few issues with varying water level and a fixed net.

[cuttlegirl]

I used this breeder box for my three cuttles, I actually thought it had better water flow than the net kind. It does tip over easily.

[Cephdoc]

Cuttlegirl!! Its been awhile since ive heard from you! Ha, but you used a similar box? I am thinking about putting a smaller rock in it and sinking it when the time comes. I mentioned to my dad that i wanted to modify it today and he didnt like that idea lol. He thinks it fine the way it is, and it might be, i just want to ensure it being fine. So i was going to take one of the ends and modify it with black mesh.

[cuttlegirl]

Why are you going to sink it? I just left mine floating with a little chaeto in it for the babies to hide. You can modify it with black mesh, I just think the tiny net in the other breeders is too small to get good water flow.

[Cephdoc]

Im not sure why i would sink it, just to keep the current from blowing it all over the top of the tank. Put a smaller rock in it with some algae, and then they can have at it. Real wuick question why i have one of you interested, are the babies more likely to ink than the adults? I watched this video and they are just going crazy after they were fed... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE_n0X2O5Vk Love this video BTW!!! Cant wait to possibly go to visit!