Hey everyone,

I think I have a male an a female Sepia bandensis and will try putting them together tonight or tomorrow night.
Check out the video (8 meg, and for a weird reason it doesn't stream so it may take a while to load) at http://www.stickycricket.com/aquarium/movies/sexingcuttle.html

In the video, they are looking at each other through a clear door in the divider of the tank.

Let me know what you think!

:D

It was real good at the second half where both of them were parallel and displaying.Sad thing is they might be two males sizing each other up. At around the first quarter, the cuttle on the right lunged at the side of the other cuttle, something which I saw when my cuttles fought.

I must say I'm extremely jealous right now :mrgreen: since my attempt failed :( . Any how, good luck :thumbsup:

Ok, i have seen the video now and I'm 99% certain that we are looking at two males squaring off to each other, it certainly looks like threat displays, very similar to the ones that my male officinalis would go through before a fight.... also looks like they are both the same size, I'd expect the female to be a fair bit smaller

Interesting Vid! I personally amnot versed at keeping cuttles. But the others are and I have to agree this looks like a showdown! :goofysca:

I think its a male and female.

At the beginning of the sexing video, they seemed to line up perpendicular to each other, looking like they were looking for love rather than sizing up for a fight. The displays at the end looked like courting because they didn't like up eye to eye.

Colin, it is hard to tell in the vid, but the one on the right is smaller.

Anyway, on to the exciting news!

I put them together last night (based on my feelings and the feelings of a friend of mine that breeds Sepia o. at a research place in Flordia), and here is the new video:

http://www.stickycricket.com/aquarium/movies/cuttlesex.html

And the videos now stream! And if you are having trouble downloading it to your computer, try letting it load fully and then right click it.

I am so freaking excited.

If so looks like he wanted more than she was willing. :P

Thats does seem pretty peaceful, until the ending.
GL if they mated!!

Fabulous! Does anyone know what cuttlefish eggs look like? Clusters like Jetta's or the squid eggs SOS collects? Strings like frogs' eggs? Cuttle homunculi?

Great soundtrack - that Andrews Sisters sample cracked me up!

Melissa

i am going to be negative here and say that it still looks like 2 males, here is my thinking...

female cuttles would not be attacked by the males, as the smaller one inked several times it obviously felt threatend. the left cuttlefish is in definite strike pose, nothing like a mating pose.

Cuttlefish mate face to face. their arms are intertwined and the male passes sperm directly into the females mantle, this process takes a minute or two each time. There was nothing of this in the clip to suggest mating.

I had several males and females of officinalis living together for several months, it looks exactly like the males squaring off to each other, and obvious attempts at bites.

The female should lay eggs like little grapes straight after mating, then go back and mate again with the male. The male would normally be protecting her at this time. this could go on for several days.

i'd expect a female cuttlefish to be at least 25% smaller than the male, not just a small amount.

and last but not least........... i dont think they are bandensis.

I hope that I am proven wrong as i obviously have not kept this species and wish you lots of luck

i am going to be negative here and say that it still looks like 2 males, here is my thinking...[/'quote]

Not negitive! Helpful!

[quote]female cuttles would not be attacked by the males, as the smaller one inked several times it obviously felt threatend.

I thought the chasing and the inking at the chasing towards the end was common in mating after the female had had enough.

the left cuttlefish is in definite strike pose, nothing like a mating pose.

Can you be more specific about which pose?

Cuttlefish mate face to face. their arms are intertwined and the male passes sperm directly into the females mantle, this process takes a minute or two each time. There was nothing of this in the clip to suggest mating.

I swear I read that they can also mate sideways head to head (like when the very first contact in the video), though I can't find the link right now, and that the process can be 'instant' or longer.

I had several males and females of officinalis living together for several months, it looks exactly like the males squaring off to each other, and obvious attempts at bites.

I know what you mean. Did the males line up head to tail, head to head or both?
Also, these don't live together. Any thoughts on displays and mating of animals that aren't 'friends' living together?

The female should lay eggs like little grapes straight after mating, then go back and mate again with the male. The male would normally be protecting her at this time. this could go on for several days.

Never heard that before! Are these feterlized eggs right after mating? I thought I read they keep 'em inside for a while before laying.

i'd expect a female cuttlefish to be at least 25% smaller than the male, not just a small amount.

Never heard this before.

and last but not least........... i dont think they are bandensis.

Any thoughts on alternative id's?

I hope that I am proven wrong as i obviously have not kept this species and wish you lots of luck

Thanks and me too!
I may be jumping the gun on the mating, but they followed exactly the pattern that was described to me by someone who breeds Sepia O (and who also identified them). Although the 'mating' was very fast. I will try again tonight.

I really wish there was some good lit on these guys!

And again, thanks for the input!

Thay do look like bandensis don't they?

Under part 4 of Dr Wood's "Cuttlefish Husbandry" article, it has something on the displaying. Males will go paralel while the female will normally watch.

I got Two pics, Sorry if they're copyrighted

The first one shows a sepia apama in breeding colours. Though bandensis can't get this colour pattern, they can make lines run down their body when they're displaying.

The second one shows two males side by side sizing each other up. They adopt a stance similar to the ones seen in the video.

Hi again…

I’ll try and expand a bit on some stuff; glad you’re not put off by it!

As far as I am aware the female and male will hang about together for a long time, perhaps even several days while continually mating, laying eggs and then mating again, and so on. There should be no aggression and inking between the couple, as the female would just move to another male that is not likely to bite her. He would defend his right to her over other males and at other times stick to her like glue. I think it is more likely that octopus mating is likely to end up with a bit of violence.

The strike pose I refer to is when they make all the arm into a point like looking down the barrel of a gun before striking something, and that’s exactly what left male did, swam round with pointy nose and struck the right male. Exactly what they do when they spot a prey item… the wriggling arms at the start also looks like a feeding response where they try to confuse prey.

Squid normally mate side to side so perhaps it is not too much of a stretch for cuttlefish to do it that way, but everything I have read over the years suggests its always face to face… anyone else know?

Fighting males would line up all different ways but most commonly side to side as this increases how big you look to a competing male, so rarely face to face, also that’s the best bit to avoid in a fight as that’s where the sharp bits are!

My cuttles were far from being friends, it was just that they were in a 200 gal system and when they were only 3” long there was plenty space for them to have a bit of space each to defend. After I lost one through fighting and once they got about 5 – 6” I whittled it down to a pair and gave away the spares. The pair mated when they must have been about 8” or so for the male and about 5” for the female… I watched the male and female joined together and he was passing spermatophores into her mantle… why he then decided to eat her is beyond me!!!! I thought I had it cracked! But anyway, it let me see the mating displays, the zebra patterns and the way he showed off to her.

The females of cuttlefish that I have read about always lay a few eggs after mating then go back to mate again and again and so on. Perhaps there are exceptions but that is the generalised way they breed. Octopuses will store sperm but as far as I am aware cuttlefish don’t.

Your cuttlefish look to me like they are in the range of 4” or so, perhaps it’s a trick of the eye, but bandensis should only be about 5cm (2”) max.

Let me comment on the fact that there is very little information about cuttlefish mating in general let alone species specific. So it is hard to tell what is happening but hopefully this helps put more information together for future cases.

Keep up the good work!!!

Colin,

Did you male cuttle eat any others in the tank prior to dispensing the spares. If so maybe he had the taste for cuttles, and saw an easy meal???

Yes and a part of me also thinks that was the problem.... worse than that the cuttle that got eaten happened only a day or two after feeding them squid for the 1st and last time... retrospect is great!

But wouldn't his instinct to mate be greater?

Sorry to hear about your loss none the less, but I was just taking a wild stab in the dark.

I figured his canabilistic intstinct had to be encourage to some degree.

Good luck with your breeding efforts Righty!

Thanks everyone! Quick update - I put them together again and it wasn't wonderful. They chased right away (I think they were hungry). After a few minutes I decided to put them back into their respective homes - my mistake. I should have let them be in the homes they were in, but I thought they needed to be in the surroundings they were used to. During the attempts to shoo them around, I got major ink. Major. Did I mention major. From both of them. Got them settled, and broke out the Magnum 330's, carbon and a micron filter - and was very please I shelled out the buck for a big skimmer. 7 or 8 hours later, the tank was clean and everyone ate.

NOW THE GOOD NEWS.

I picked up three more cuttles today, and they are acclimating as I type. The LFS had 5, but two of them are big, so I didn't get them.

Colin, according to ceph base Bandensis has an adult mantle length of 6 cm. This is straight from cephbase, their arms are usually 3-5 cm. Head probably about 2. that's a total of 9-12 cm, about 5-6", which looks right for my guys. According to my friend in Flordia who really seems to know what he is talking about "Morphology for bandensis is perfect too, especially in the pic in the cuttle page of your website: the common name is stump-spined cuttles"
But then who knows? I am just hoping that they are all the same species - they really look it.

Anyway, should I start a new thread about this or just leave it here?

Thanks for the input, and please keep it comming.

Rich

Sepia Apama, the giant cuttles can grow to about 50cm ML, their arms also get up to 50cm which is perhaps why they look so different sometimes.

I have no doubts those are bandensis righty, other than bandensis, what other species come in?

Just bandensis, and I had to push to get the to order them.

Oh, they also have the blue dots around the fin that are described for bandensis.

Yup, that confirms it, theres another species whose name I can't remember, which looks alot like a bandensis except for those iridecent spots.

Ok I found the site, apart from the redish colour to this species and the absence of blue dots, it looks alot like bandensis.

http://www.edge-of-reef.com/cefalopodi/CEFsepiasp.htm

Heres the site with quite a few nice pics. And the last few pics show the cuttles mating, face to face.

http://www.edge-of-reef.com/cefalopodi/CEFSepiabandensisen.htm

Excellent news on picking up some more, obviously the chance of getting a definite pair goes up the more individuals you get....

Mark Norman states in his book that bandensis:

Size: body (and shell) to 5cm

so, okay adding arms and head part reach more than 5cm.

How are the new additions doing? Are you collecting them from the shop as they come into teh country or are they first being acclimatised to the shop and then to your tanks??? Just wanting to know how you are doing it as it may help other future members.

Leave new posts here as it keeps the subject very tidy and easy to point newbies to the thread rather than having it jumping about.

I am going to do my moderating just now and go back to delete all the spam... Ant.

On a personal note I have done a lot of bandensis research and emailed a few people over the last couple of years and the variety between the individuals has been great. Some pics of old bandensis may still be on this site's early threads and will be on RC ceph forum. I am still thinking that we may be looking at several different species, or at least regional variation. I find it very interesting and no doubt that as a group we will iron it all out soon :) Well done everyone

Regional variation? Something like the seabadgers? :lol:

Ok seriously, variations in what way? Looks? Toxins? Behaviour?

Regional variation? Something like the seabadgers? :lol:

Dammit Joel, i just deleted all the other nonsence from the thread!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah i mean in their morphology, they have a HUGE range... look at the blue ring octopuses fpr example.. as time goes on more and more species are spilt up as people reseach them.. if you look at Norman's book you'll see lots of species called Sepia sp. or Octopus sp. Even the fact the mimic and wunderpus dont have proper scientific name yet means it is very easy to imagine that bandensis is a catch all name, Also Octopus bocki, and aculeatus are being researched into the species...

That kinda reminds me of seahorses, not too long ago, a whole bunch of them were under one name histrix i think, until recently.

Guess its the same for cephs right now, things will get sorted out once identification is more advanced. But with their seemingly broader range of colour changes :rainbow: and slightly smaller size, I'd like to find that Sepia Sp one day

The new ones seem to be doing fine. I had the LFS call me when the cephs arrived, and they left them in the shipping bags until I got there. I acclimated them for an hour by adding about 1/2 a cup of water to their bags every 5 min or so (the bags were big). Then I let them go and they all ate within 5 minutes.

This morning I don't like the color of one of them, but its early yet.

Thanks for all the input!

I'm sure that's a better way to do it, if you let the LFS acclimatise them its just more stress... hope all goes well :)

Do you have another tank set up for them, or were you planning on putting them in the same tank as the other two?

The tank has four compartments and there is a 20 gallon tank plumbed into the system.

http://www.stickycricket.com/aquarium/cuttle/cuttlecondo/P3090005.JPG

There is more info here:

http://www.stickycricket.com/aquarium/cuttle/cuttlecondo/P3090005.JPG

That cuttle condo is freaking awesome! How do you get such good pictures of your corals and stuff? I always have problems with glare and crap.

Light. ;)


Righty, that is AWESOME! :D

nice set up!

did you make it or buy it or what??? :)

Indeed, that is one nice tank

How big is it? And wadabout the one at the bottom?

:D
It is a 100 gallon acrylic tank. I made the dividers and the doors for the dividers, and each divider is movable and removable. Each door slides up and down easily to make putting together cuttles as stress free as possible, and the doors can either be transparent to see how they react to each other, or opaque so they leave each other alone. Right now the dividers are set at 15 inches apart, but can also be set at 20 inches apart. The tuff part was due to acrylic tanks bowing when filled - a square divider leaves about 1/2 and inch gap midway up the tank. I took some flimsy acrylic track and cut it to the height of the divder. Then I drilled several small holes midway up the divider close to the edge, but at different distances from the edge. This allowed me to use an acrylic rod for a pin to bow the acrylic track out against bowed sides of the tank - it gets pushed in the middle and curve naturally with the tank to the top and bottom. Hmmm. I think I should draw this, because I am not sure that words make it clear.
Oh, the cuttles can actually see each other through the acrylic track on the sided and they spend time and night looking at each other.

The tank at the bottom is a 20 gallon plummed into the sump that is on the left of the tank against the wall. I was going to plumb two of them under the stand, but decided I wanted the space for junk. The 20 can easily be taken out of the loop of the sump, so it can be used as a q tank, and it has its own skimmer and heater.

The plan is to plumb another tank, or rubbermaid container into the system when eggs show up for raising the babies.

Man what a sweet set-up!!! Great work!!

Hope you efforts are successful!!!!! :D

What's happening now? Any progress?

Nice idea for tank btw

Thanks!

I am leaving them alone for about a week, or until all of them are eating solidly - there is one new one that seems unhappy, but, judging by color, it is starting to come around. Once they settle, I will move them around and start introducing them.

Scary :D

RR

Do keep us updated. Personally, I would try to put all of them to gether in a larger space at first. It seems that once they settle down, others aren't too welcome in their territory. just my 2 cents :)

Interesting to see that James Woods gave a pretty similar answer to your question on Ceph List... lets hope you got at least one female out of the new ones... how are they for size comparisons?

Crap, why must there be more cuttles which look alike? Here's another one http://www.edge-of-reef.com/cefalopodi/CEFSepiamisakiensisen.htm

It grows to be 6cm, could the cuttles you got be mixed species?

That's exactly what I was trying to point out, there will be lots of species that look similar...

See how it has a 'cf' in the middle of its scientific name? that means 'similar to'

Just got up. All the experts, including you all, that I have talked too are now feeling like the ones in the video are both males.

I still think bandensis, based on a guy who has worked with them a little and this link: http://www.edge-of-reef.com/cefalopodi/CEFSepiabandensisen.htm
The ones I have look lots like the description.

I don't think I have Sepia misakiensisen based on colors, the lack of eye 'stalks' and the location of the species.

Thank you all so much!

Cephs of different species don't usually fight right? I've seen the LFS with eight cuttles including one bandensis, a few latimanus and possibly an esculenta all In the same tank. I was Just wondering how they know the difference between themselves and other species and sexes.

its maybe more to do with the numbers game... several in a smaller tank will not have a defined territory each and therefore nothing to defend... as long as they are well fed... should be okay for small periods of time

Bad idea in the home as lack of territory and such high stocking density will be very stressfull.

Looks like I got eggs!



http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=2369

They are from one of the newer cuttles, and I am guessing that she either came in gravid, or she and the male in the next cell have been doing it through the gaps in the divder (or the 'male' (the possible female in the videos) laid them and I didn't notice, which I doubt).

I have the eggs in a speciman container with holes drilled in it, along with a slight flow.

Any suggestions on best way to get them to hatch, or anything else for that matter?

Wow! you're incredibly lucky, I just hope they're fertile :)

Apparenly baby cuttles eat only live food at birth, try using mysis if availible or small ghost shrimp.

Hope it goes well for ya! :D

Keep us updated!

ah ha good!

I think that keeping them seperate is the way to go and just keep a gentle stream of water passing through the tank... I guess now is the waiting game and see what happens in a month or so time... sorry i have no info on the incubation of bandensis eggs...

Yes, they will only eat live foods and 10 - 12 mm long babies can and will eat several 10mm long shrimps like crangon each day... better get a good supply of food :)

How big are the eggs?

Oh and Btw- how's the parent doing right now?

Hey everyone,

Finally time to post!

The eggs seem to be doing well, either 7 or 9, hard to tell cause they look a little weird. Wel'll see if they swell. I am going to set up the incubation tank soon, and build a better incubator.

Bad news, I lost one of the new cuttles, the one I thought was doing bad.

But now the good news.
I just watched the original male that everyone was sure was male, and the one that laid the eggs have hard core, head to head cuttle sex. I put in a clear divider and the male did some dancing and the female ignored him. When I pulled the divider, the male swam in and they went at it right away, just like in all the pictures. The did it for about a minute, then broke off and just seemed to hang out for a while. The male did some crazy displays. When I got bored, I ushered the male back into his home with a kent algae scraper - which worked very very well. No ink or nothing. And, both of them ate after they were separated.

I did film it, but I gotta get some sleep!

I am guessing about two weeks till she lays from this copulation, any other guesses?

What do you guys think, should I put them together again, and how often?

Any other thoughts?

Thanks - I am so frickin excited!

Congratulations - I can wait to see the video .
This post has been great and fascinating.

That's awesome, Righty. 8)

Keeping them together for a while wouldn't do much harm, unless something gets into one of your cutlle's heads. If i'm not wrong they lay eggs quite soon after mating.

Yeah baby!

http://www.stickycricket.com/aquarium/movies/cuttleporn.html

I put the together last night for about 10 min, then I got scared. The coupled several times. Since I know they had good sex. I think I may wait a week or two before putting them together again. I would hate for the male to go cannibal on her!

I think that's the right way to do it, keep them apart unless you are there!!!

Well done again

Thanks again!

She laid a nice clutch today. But she laid them on a rock. I will probobly just move the entire rock to the nursery, but does anyone know about removing them from the rock?

Back to plumbing!

The eggs wiill be quite firmly stuck, would be better to just take out the whole rock, unless it reall big or at the bottom of a pile of rocks :wink:

hello all, ive been away for a while,
Righty,
where in florida does your friend work with cuttles, i live in s florida, east coast?

how are cuttles so abundant where you shop, ive been trying to get one for almost a year and a half with no luck at all

I will find out where he works. MOTE?

The are no abundant at all. I had to really ride these guys to get them for me.

Great work on the breeding - give us another update soon! ... i am setting up a new cuttle tank and i love your dividers! I might have a go at making some myself! Dont ask me what species they are - i wouldnt have a clue, there are too many similar varieties to be sure!

I live in Australia so it is extremely hard to get cuttlefish in! - octopus are no problem, but i can catch them anyway! What i want is a repaer cuttlefish or a few striped pyjama squid - which exist on the east coat near me.

What are your preffered methods of capture of cuttlefish (hand, net, trap?, what else?) Do you jump in the water and swim, or bait them. Where do you look? (rocky? Sandy? Piers?) and how do you go about finding out what areas they inhabit?

thanks very much,

sam

Oh yeah i forgot, i cant get your movies to work? they just show up as a white square!!

You'll need Quicktime for the videos.

Cuttles will usually hang out around reefs. Though it isn't really recommended, you could try getting suppliers from South east asia to chip cuttles to you.

There are two right now. One is perfect, the other seems to have something on its arms - looks like left over internal egg goo. Hope it comes off. I can also see moving babies in eggs I thought were infertile cause they seemed to be rotting. HA! They are hatching! Hopefully video and pics soon!

Thats great, Righty! Im looking forward to the vids! :D

Sounds great - u are so lucky righty!!! Hope the goo comes off.

Posa when you have the vids on your site! i can't wait!

good luck!

You're pretty lucky righty, Got any pics or vids which you could share?

Pics!
http://stickycricket.com/aquarium/cuttle/babycuttles.html

Don't count me lucky yet - I still have to rear them!

8) .

http://stickycricket.com/aquarium/cuttle/cuttleimages/baby/withcoralbaby.jpg

http://stickycricket.com/aquarium/cuttle/babycuttles.html

The progress link is coming along. :D

Wow, they look tiny, how large are they now?

Btw are they feeding on anything?

:baby: Congrats!!! How did I miss this? And how exciting!! Sending lots of luck to you and your new babies!!!

Carol

They are around 4 or 5 mm. Havent seen them eat, but I did see one move it arms around. There are plenty of pods in the tank with them, and I am getting some shrimp in the mail today!

Nice! :D

Great, good luck with them! :)

Quick update:
Babies doing great!
Momma not doing well. She is not catching food well and seems lethargic.
I did pick up two new cuttles today. They are small - mantle length like 3 cm.

Mom wasting away I guess... Well looks like the babies will have no problem, any increase in size?

Btw, you got the females and males by chance right? When introduced to each other, did any of the cuttles charge at the other immediately?

Hey Joel,

I'm not sure I understand your question. The cuttles are all kept seperately - the only ones that have been introduced are two we know to be male now and one female.

sorry, let me rephrase that, you bought many cuttles and by chance got a male and a female right? Did any of your cuttles charge at another when the latter was first introduced? I ws just wondering, maybe i could get another shot at breeding these guys.

sorry, let me rephrase that, you bought many cuttles and by chance got a male and a female right? Did any of your cuttles charge at another when the latter was first introduced? I ws just wondering, maybe i could get another shot at breeding these guys.

Yes that happened. The male, or the dominant male if they were both males, charged on sight.

Sad and Glad update.

Sad:
Lost two of the babies today. Three of the 4 were still small, so I separated them from the big one. It was two of the small ones that died, and I am worried about the 3rd because it is also small. All of the other eggs were infertile. I am wondering if any of mine that were laid were actually 'healthy'.

The female that laid all those eggs died today.

Glad:
All 5 of the other adults are doing well and eating nicely.

While in an LFS on Saturday, the owner mentioned that a wholesaler was trying to sell a bunch of cuttle eggs and that he had seen one hatch on Friday. He told me they were in a tank and would just sit there over the weekend. He sent someone over there to pick them up for me. 8 big eggs - different from mine (but mine could have all been runt eggs), and the babies, 5 at last count, are much bigger than the ones I hatched. I have been told that these were collected from the Philippines, while the other ones come from maybe Bali. So, I may now have two species. Oy!

Sorry to hearabout the babies, I hope the new eggs don't belong to the large species like Pharaonis, just imagine if they turn out to be metasepia tullbergi :)

Joel,

That would be fantastic.

Here is one of the new eggs (I have 19 babies now):

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/download.php?id=13598

Cool, any idea wjat species you got, and how large are the babies? Nice shot, it does vaguely resemble more bandensis

Very cool, Righty. 8-)

Hey,

Don't know what the species, but they feel like bandensis! Here are some pics.


http://www.stickycricket.com/aquarium/cuttle/cuttleimages/baby/one_cute_baby.jpg

http://www.stickycricket.com/aquarium/cuttle/cuttleimages/baby/two_cute_babies.jpg


BTW, I do think the adults are bandensis, but bandensis get bigger than 5 cm.

8).

How big are the babies now? I don't "feel" that these are bandensis, after about 16 of these guys, (there were many I was keeping along with the few I did tell you about) I've only seen one at one time with a butt that pointy. Maybe its that unidentified look alike?

I'm sooooooo jealous of your babies :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I love how the cuttle in the first pic looks up at you.

Very Cool 8) pics!!! Good luck with this new group!! What kind of camera?
The shot of the egg is fantastic!!!

Carol

Whoo hoo!

I am using an Olympus 2100 UZ. I want a macro lens real bad!

Joel, which unidentified look alike?

I want a macro lens real bad!

Dont we all. :(

http://www.edge-of-reef.com/cefalopodi/CEFSepiabandensisen.htm

Look under similar species. and click sepia sp, it's from page 2 of this thread. The 3rd picture of the sepia sp looks alot like the cuttle from your first pic.

Ah! Could be. Hard to tell from the one pic!

Try this:

Babies eating guppies:
http://stickycricket.com/aquarium/movies/baby.html

:D

Plus 'INK' logo store:
http://www.cafepress.com/cuttle

cool....quick learners too...very cute!
greg

very cool.... you'll get the chance to see that everytime you give them a new food they have to figure out how to catch it... in a few days guppies will be snatched in seconds!

This is a fun video - and the little cuttles are so cute! :)

Nancy

That is awesome. I really admire your skill. 8-)