SQUIDCAM issues

[Steve O'Shea]

Hi all. Just a heads up. The SQUIDCAM site might have to be pulled, as in taken down, offline, because I do not have animal ethics approval to keep squid live in a tank, which is apparently considered a 'manipulation.'

I've attached a poll that I'd appreciate your opinion on; to keep or not to keep basically, to send a message to others that we mean no harm, and perhaps know what we're doing.

Feel free to post any comments here.

[cuttlegirl]

Does ethics approval apply to all animals? Do you have to ask permission every time you keep an animal?

[Steve O'Shea]

It's difficult; being associated with the University may well require this. I'm checking this out now.

[Architeuthoceras]

Sorry for your troubles Steve :sad:

Surely they could not be in better hands!

[tonmo]

Certainly it should stay online -- I'm not sure what good would come of taking it offline.

[GPO87]

I have no issues with the squidcam going down for a little while (but not too long) until the appropriate permits are obtain. Preferably I'd like it to stay up, but I don't want you or the university to get into any legal troubles with whoever is accusing you of not having the permits. Although, surely the university has some sort of permits for raising animals in captivity... for science!

[Jean]

Hmmmm our ethics approval is the same. squid are required to have a permit because they are defined as "Animals" in the Animal welfare act, along with, vertebrates and crabs and crayfish, other molluscs, echinoderms etc are not and thus you can apparently do what you want to them legally speaking. University ethics committees tend to be a bit tougher and require approval to hold anything! We go through this every couple of years to keep the aquarium and education programmes running, we even have to allow for how much zooplankton we collect! It's getting so that if you hold these animals for research without the ethics approval (& thus have a permit number) you cannot publish!

J

[tonmo]

I could absolutely see there being a protest / objection if it wasn't a dedicated marine biologist and expert teuthologist at the helm of this. As it is, it's a ridiculous concern (in my opinion)

[GPO87]

I could absolutely see there being a protest / objection if it wasn't a dedicated marine biologist and expert teuthologist at the helm of this. As it is, it's a ridiculous concern (in my opinion)

here here!

[DWhatley]

I was not sure what the third choice meant. Was it a no interest vote? It would be my choice if it meant that we are not effected here by the classification so you have to decide but I would not want to suggest a lack of interest. Since I visit nightly (and am now sure to reset the camera to the defaults after I get my best picture of the evening), I would miss my chance to observe something I will never see live and the hopes of comparing the pictures across time. If we would ultimately lose the ability to have this kind of live monitoring for the sake of delaying the process for retarded paperwork, then I would vote to take it down while someone pushes some paper (not saying where it should go or the method of delivery) and the offended authorities go back into their shells.

[Jean]

I could absolutely see there being a protest / objection if it wasn't a dedicated marine biologist and expert teuthologist at the helm of this. As it is, it's a ridiculous concern (in my opinion)

I would agree (especially where Steve is concerned) but there have been occasions when the researcher has been so tied up in their research that the animal/s have suffered. In early days some research involved putting out the eyes of octopus to test how they could still function and what the statolith/statocyst complex did, wouldn't be tolerated now (kinder research had half ping pong balls covering the eyes), or animals being held in substandard enclosures, even in reputable establishments, But I do agree it shouldn't be so hard to get if you have a good record.

J

[tonmo]

Well, yes, I agree with that, too. I guess I'm just saying it's ridiculous because it is Dr. Steve we're talking about here. It's definitely a valid concern (the well-being of the cephs), and the procedures should be followed. In the case of Steve, he should certainly be able to do it retroactively without disrupting his project. Good points!

[DWhatley]

Neal thinks Steve should be FORCED to keep the camera running so the world can SEE if he is abusing the squid.

[squidflakes]

Steve,

How does Australia view cephalopods? In the US, we only have to follow the ethics rules that apply to tissue samples.

[Steve O'Shea]

We are closing SQUIDCAM down. This is the ruling that I have from the National Animal Ethics Advisory Committee, Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, New Zealand.

I must apologise to all concerned; I will let the animals go today/tomorrow.

Sorry
Steve

[Jean]

BLAST! did they say why? I've had permits to hold squid in the past and I'm sure you have too. Is this an administrative slap on the hand? if so it's pretty petty.........commiserations :sad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

No need for YOU to apologise!

Jean

[Steve O'Shea]

:sad:

SQUIDCAM is now offline

[hermissenda]

Thanks for the squid cam, I've been enjoying it since it came up whenever I can. I wish you'd phrased the poll differently - Do I think the squid cam "should" stay up? Not if it is going to get anyone in trouble or cause an ulcer. But I would love to see it stay up. Best of luck on your ethics issue, whether you can maintain squidcam or not, I hope very much that you can continue to keep your squid!

[tonmo]

Unfortunately, the squidcam is offline indefinitely, as of about a week ago (discussed in the "squidcam is now live" thread).

[Steve O'Shea]

.... but it will be back up and running in a different sort of way in a week or so .... for a different kind of squid, although less interactive :silenced:

[petree]

hello Steve o'Shea
my name is Andrew Wilson and i work at the National Aquarium of New Zealand in Napier.
i found a brunch of broad squids eggs last year and i got them to hatch and start feeding but started dieing and ended up losing them all i think it was the way i had the filter set up .I have manage to find 2 more bunches and bring them back to work and was woundering if you had time to tell me what kind of set up you use.
thanks for your time and i hope to hear from you i have a lot of questions and im realy looking forward to making it work this time and geting squid on display for the 1st time at the aquarium

[Steve O'Shea]

Hi Andrew. Nice to meet you. Is Kerry Hewitt (or Rob, the boss) not there anymore? We have worked a lot with Kerry and Rob in the past, with keeping broad squid alive (and just having a wonderful time), and given the Nat Aquarium specimens before. I know that the Nat Aquarium has had them before, on display, and you are so fortunate in having some of the best mysid territory available to you anywhere in New Zealand (for food for the paralarvae). If anyone can do it, you can do it in Napier - but it is extremely hard work!

Are you interested in starting live squid culture again? All you need is a cylindrical tank - your facilities are out of this world!

I am all too happy to come down and show you what to do, if you have egg masses available right now. The most important thing, if you do, is to keeep them 'gently dancing' in a flow-to-waste water supply. If you do then I could be down next week (anytime after Monday) - as long as you have that cylindirical, acrylic tank (unfortunately this week is an absolute nightmare!).

I'd love to drop everything right now and be down tomorrow, but I am afraid I am fully booked for a while.

[petree]

wow thats great news i am more than keen to learn as much as i can in hatching and raising them up to be put on display.yes kerry and rob are my boss i have been ther for 4 and a half years now,and tryed hatching them last year but didnt have much luck.I have two bunches of eggs and i think they are doing nice.my number is 0272094610 as im not at work the next two days.i will be ther the weekend.i have a round tank set up with incoming water and the over flow sucking from under the gravel and a small pump to make the water move do i need this?i would realy like to chat with you if i could as i have so much to ask ,and would realy like your help.

[Steve O'Shea]

I'll try and make it down soon Andrew. As long as the water temp is between 13 and 19 degrees, the summer and winter temps we get eggs ehere (somewhere in between, 18 is perfect for summer) you'll be fine (I know that's a HUGE range, but I don't know what the local temps are right now).
Say Hi to Kerry & Rob
Steve

[petree]

sounds good thank you.i think its a little warmer, we are pumping water staight from the bay .
i look forward to meeting and learning from you. cant wait to make this work.

[petree]

hi ther steve just a couple of questions about your visit.would you like to do anything in particular that you would like me to organised or get for you?and the other is would you like me to organise a place for you to stay?