I just received my new baby bimac from fishsupply.com, and it may be damaged! Here's what happened:

Yesterday on the phone, I told fishsupply.com to use heat packs (yes, plural) because it was extremely cold up here in Minnesota (-16 last night). So, when I opened the container just now, I saw one measly heat pack taped to the top. I picked up the bag, and I could feel the water was very cold. I couldn't see the bimac moving, either. I put a thermometer in, and the water was 46 degrees--yes, 46, no typo. I didn't want to slowly acclimate the octo just in case every minute counted. So, I put him/her directly into the 75 degree tank (yes, it must have been a shock). It immediately began vigorously pumping water through itself, but it does not move, and it's tentacles are curled-up. Does this mean the damage has already been done, or that it's in shock. Either way, advice please!!!!!!!!!

Hi Crevalle, I too ordered and received a baby bimac from fish supply today. And as you I also requested that they make sure there were enough heat packs in the box as we are having single digit temps here in Louisville. There was only one in the box. They assured me the cold would be no problem. I didn't bother to check the temp but I knew it was cold. A bigger concern for me was that the water in the bag was a dark charcoal gray. My baby had inked the bag! I acclimated it as promptly as I could. When I released it, it swam down and sat on top of a rock for a few minutes. When I left the room and came back there was no sign of it anywhere. It has come out this evening and is exploring a little, but retreats when we come in the room. I offered it some chopped up raw shrimp and it has shown some interest. It followed the food down in behind some rocks, I'm not sure if it ate it or not. My baby also has it's legs curled up. I hope they are both OK. good luck

Spring

Poor little guys, I'd say that it's probably done for, but don't give up hope. :(
Spring - They usually don't eat on the first day, try feeding live hermits tomorrow, it's probably finding a place to hide for a while.
-25 this morning, -40 with the wicdchill; can't imagine what it's like in um..., neck of the woods.

Shipping always has come uncontrollable aspects - the package may be diverted, it may be left in a cold or a hot place. At the time I ordered Ollie, I postponed the shipment a week because of cold weather in Texas and the rest of the nation. I also paid extra for delivery before 10 - not only does this result in less time in the bag for the octo, but it may force a direct flight (I was told by the shipping company that there were four possible air routes that the octo could take to arrive in Dallas).

Biimacs can tolerate some lower temperatures for short times - I don't know the real range. But it would seem that some acclimation would be better than a sudden plunge. It's a shame about the inking - I don't know what else other than accimating should be done, but it does take some time to clear out a tank when an octo has inked, even with a skimmer. So an octo can survive for a while in his own ink.

Perhaps some of you with more shipping experience can respond as well.
Hope both of these little guys pull through.

Nancy

9:49pm CST -

Octopus has extended its tentacles, moves around some, responds to me by turning black, but does seem almost curious (comes toward the front glass on the tank when I kneel down). I think it will make it, but we'll see by tomorrow morning if its still alive. Sure hope so. I was speaking with a local ceph "expert" and he said the a bimac should be able to survive 46 degrees for short periods. He said they can be found in cool tide pools off California's coast, and that they change temps quickly.

That sounds promising!

Good luck to both of you, and your new additions!

I put a thermometer in, and the water was 46 degrees--yes, 46, no typo. I didn't want to slowly acclimate the octo just in case every minute counted. So, I put him/her directly into the 75 degree tank

hi

i hope the little guy pulls through... but slowly adding heat is key, especially in cases like this where it was so low, that is an even better case for doing things slowly but i understand why you did it quickly.. if it happens to anyone else in this cold weather, make sure you do it slowly.. i think i would take about 3 - 4 hours for a temp difference like that at least.

Hi and congrats to both of you on your new babies!! How exciting! Ink was in poor shape when she arrived. Very weak. I took about an hour or to acclimate, with a drip line, and then because she was so stressed, I put the bag in the tank to let her come off the plastic at her leisure. Took her over 24 hours to feel well enought to let go of the bag! I cut away peices of the bag until she was on a little peice about 2 x 4". I think when they are so stressed, it is important to go very slowly and gently. I also left the light off for while.

Crevalle - How is yours doing?

Carol

Colin, what about a case like mine, where it was extremely cold and also inked the bag? I took maybe an hour to acclimate it as the water in the bag came up to temp quickly when I floated it in the tank. I felt it was important to get it out of the inked water asap.

I haven't seen my baby this morning, Hiding in the rocks I guess.

Crevalle, How's your baby?

Spring

That's terrible but I do hope both your octos turn out fine. Could you have requested for more heat packs? Try e-mailing the guys about what happened and see what they have to say.

Colin--Like Spring, the water my bimac came in was light grey, so I assumed there was ink in the water. That's one of the reasons I wanted to get it out so fast. I took a chance, I know.

Joel_ang--Yes, I've already e-mailed FishSupply.com about the incident. I just wanted to be on record with them regarding the poor shipping conditions, just in case things don't work out.

Update 10:32am Sat --

Well, last night my bimac started moving some, and even deliberately went over to a baby clam, grabbed it, and started eating it (although I couldn't see a whole lot under the octo). I went to bed a 1am and hoped for the best.

I woke up this morning, and it was still alive (whew!). I saw an open, cleaned-out clam shell too. Good sign. Looks like it is going to make it. I have to admit, after reading about octos for the past month, I thought they were the most fragile thing in the ocean. I'm starting to think that maybe they're fairly tough.

My favorite part so far is how awesome it is when they "pulse" a different color through their system. Chromataphores (sp?), I believe? Absolutely fascinating. When I get close, it turns almost black instantly. Then it chills out and turns light brown again. :D

Spring, how's your octo??

You do feel alot better once the ceph makes it through the first night doesn't it :)

Good luck! :)

Wow! That's great Crevalle! Any pictures yet?

Carol

Crevalle, I finally found my baby late this afternoon. He's hiding out under the ledge of a big rock. There is also an empty crab shell there too! So glad to here yours is doing ok. Does anyone know how many little hermits I should feed it a day? :?:

Spring :)

There really is no standard on how much to feed an octo, It also depends on the size of the octo. I fed my cephs 4 1 inch shrimps a day when it was about 2 inch mantle length.

Here's a pic of my baby. I'm not the best photographer around, so sorry about the quality.

Spring

Cute baby, Spring! Shoud've seen my first pic, coudn't make out Pudge from the rock. :)

You're a good enough photographer to be taking a picture of a live octopus, so that's cool. :D

Cool octo, Spring! Have you entered your tank specs in the OCTO Database (http://www.tonmo.com/octo/octo_main.php)?

Not yet Tony, But I'll get around to it soon. Thanks for reminding me. :)

It is cool to be able to take a picture of an octo, isn't it? Marine life fascinates me so much. I'd love to be able to go diving or snorkling and see one in the wild. It'll never happen though, :( I'm not a very strong swimmer. :oops: I'll just have to be satisfied with having my tanks here at home.

Spring :)

You can check out the pix of them in the wild though! :)

Here (http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1399)

And here (http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1558)

:D

I'm really glad to hear that both baby bimacs seem to be doing OK. Looking forward to hearing much more about both of them. Nice pic, too.

One of the reasons we ask you to enter your tank and octo in the database is so we have some information on hand when you ask questions, now and in the future.

So, do these little guys have names yet?

Nancy

I am sooo glad to hear they both are coming around!!!! :D

What a cutie, Spring!!! Please keep us updated on both!!!

Carol

Thanks Nancy and Carol, No name yet. I'm kind of waiting to see what it's personality is like before I name mine. It's staying hid a lot. Is there anything I can do to encourage it to come out in the open? Maybe a lego or something to play with? Do they play with toys this young or is that something that developes later?

BOE, Those are some great pictures you linked to. What a lucky guy that fellow is. Thanks.

Spring :)

Not yet Tony, But I'll get around to it soon. Thanks for reminding me. :)
Cool, I see you've created it! Have announced your addition (and also Crevalle's) in this week's TONMO.com email newsletter.

I haven't done that either, tony. How do I go about it?

Spring

Just tell Tony and I'm sure he'll get it done for you, in the next newsletter if it has already been sent.

I'm sorry, get what done? :?:

Oh, I think I see -- the Newsletter is something I publish on a weekly basis. Past issues can be seen here (http://www.tonmo.com/MyMail/archive.php?id=1).

To sign up for the Newsletter, go to the TONMO.com Homepage and scroll down, you'll see the form in the right margin.

Back to Spring's question -

I don't know how early they start playing - maybe you new octo owners should observe that and report back!

But, I have heard of people putting in small shells and then, when you bimac gets more used to you, pushing a shell or gently hitting it with the feeding stick so the little bimac can play.

Nancy

Sorry Tony. I thought you were asking me if I had announced the new addition. I see now that you said you had done it. :oops:

Thanks Nancy. The little guy is still hiding out a lot. It was moving about quite a bit last evening, but hasn't really gotten to far away from the rocks. I've noticed it is finding little clam like shells in the rocks and working them loose. Looking for food, I guess. I don't think the shells had anything in them. Not sure if it is eating the hermits or not. I put a couple small ghost shrimp in the tank yesterday. Only found one of them this morning. I also have some Hawaiin red volcanic shrimp I ordered from "Ocean Rider" (seahorse farm). I put a couple of those in too. I went on a quest for fresh clams today. One local store will have them tomorrow. I thought I'd cut them up in small pieces and put the meat in one of those little shells it's digging out. What do you think? Will it work?

Spring :)

Great luck! :D

(:lol: at the great luck)

It probably might, also try using frozen scallops and prawns.

It worked! I chopped up a fresh scallop and placed the filled shell in the tank. It wasn't long til I noticed the shell had been emptied. I got another piece of scallop and placed it in the same place and in just a couple minutes the baby scurried out of it's cave and scooped it up and away it went! If surviving the first night is the biggest relief after receiving a new octo, then actually seeing it eat has got to be second best. :mrgreen:
I'm so happy!!! :D :D :D

Spring :)

Looks like its gonna be fine :) Have any of your thought of a name? Its pretty hard with so many "its" and can get quite confusing

Wow Spring!

Got pix yet? :)

GL!

Hello all,

Just wanted to give you an update. Our new bimac (we named it "squirt" - yes, I know, not too original) has acclimated quite well thus far. I have been feeding it (by hand) small clams. One time, after it grabbed the clam, it squirmed over to the glass and climbed up a few inches. I was then able to watch it (from the underside) work it's way into the clam--quite interesting. I've gotten plenty of video (MiniDV), but I still can't find my digital camera. I'll find it eventually.

The way it changes color to match the LR is most amazing to me. I pointed to which rock the bimac was on, and my wife still couldn't find the little guy until I pointed him out. BTW, I was talking with the local ceph "expert" today (he's the one who has bred vulgaris and attempted to breed the European cuttlefish), and he said that he has trained all of his bimacs to never leave the water. He said he never keeps a top on his tanks (he likes the added air-exchange it allows), and has never lost one to escape. Whether or not you agree with his method, here is what he wrote to me:

"...I trained mine to not leave the tank. They are curious and will explore. I maintaned mine with closed top and some with open top aquaria. I trained them in the following manner. First get them to eat from your hand. This is pretty simple as they will recognize your hand and the immediate introduction of food. Soon they will come right up to your hand to grab the food from you. It is about that simple. Next they will usually explore, and nibble on your hand during the feeding process. ALWAYS keep your hands clean- antibacterial soap and vigorously rinse prior to feeding. After you have gained their confidence pull them out of the tank during this time. They will get very mad at you because they hate it. They don't like being out of water. They will begin to recognize that outside the tank is a bad place. Repeat a few times. Leave the lid off and monitor your octopus. If he still tries to slide out he hasn't learned yet. I did this and kept mine without a top - no problem. You will begin to recognize that each octopus has its own personality. Use this to your advantage during your training. It sounds kind of funny to train an aquarium pet but don't forget they are about as smart as a dog. I would be interested in hearing about your experiences with your new pet as he grows older. I personally order mine a little larger as it is easier to feed. All of mine lived off from hand fed shrimp and other seafood. I started hand feeding the day after acclimation. At first I use a long tong to wave the fresh food by them. Eventually I just use my fingers. Most octopus will eat within 7 days of introduction and the majority within 2-3."

Glad squirt is doing fine after that rocky start. The method might work but take care that it doesn't ink during the process. We'll be looking forward to some pretty nice pics and vids :wink: :heee:

Hi Crevalle...

sounds a bit like your local ceph expert is opening their mouth and letting their belly rumble!

bimaculoides are naturally less prone to climbing out but since there have been several cases of bimacs crawling out of their tanks we have been offering the information that they can climb out and no amount of 'training' is going to make an octopus realise that.

'After you have gained their confidence pull them out of the tank during this time'

I cant think of a better way to make an octopus wary of you, nobody ever uses negative reinforcement with animals like this!!! Might as well try an electric fence round the top!
Ever tried to pull an octopus anywhere? Its not an easy task! I have had them hanging onto my fingers/hands for ages without them letting go, whether in or out of water!

If an octo 'nibbles on your hand' it can really hurt, remember, although its 'only a bimac' they can still inject venom and it will sting!

Also by 'bred vulgaris' do they mean reared babies to a decent size or do they mean had a gravid female lay eggs in their tank?

It sounds kind of funny to train an aquarium pet but don't forget they are about as smart as a dog

They are smart but i have a couple of mutts who beg to differ :jester:

I agree with Colin - what a horrible idea to gain you octopus's trust, but then violate it by grabbing it and pulling it out of the water. I never would have been able to do all things I did with Ollie (my bimac, recently deceased) if I had ever violated that trust.

Cephjedi had an interesting point a little while ago - that some attempts at escape are just a result of the eagerness to solve problems - can I climb up here, can I get through this opening, etc.

Ollie was very curious and climbed out when we were present. She flopped her arms over the edge of the tank (lid was open), pulled herself up, sat on the edge of the tank and hung on to Bill with one arm while she explored the outside of the tank with a few free arms. She was very interested in the cleaning magnet, which she liked to play with. Also, she touched Bill's nose! She came out like this twice, and that seemed to satisfy her curiosity. I never saw any attempt to escape after that.

Nancy

:shock: That does seem like a very mean thing to do, pulling it out of the water like that. That would sort of be like if a dog goes on your carpet you push its head under water and call it stupid! :x

But anyway...


BOE, Carol, Neil, and Steve.

I agree with you guys--sounds pretty mean/unreasonable. But, the guy does know what he's doing when it comes to cephs (despite his questionable "disciplinary" methods). He's got a contact that can get him European cuttlefish (which he's attempted to breed with no luck). He bred and raised Vulgaris--he showed me some pics. Pretty cool stuff.

Maybe the next trick he teaches me will involve poking the bimac's eyeball when it peeks out of the water. That'll teach 'em! :wink:

The method would work but your relationship between you and the octo is going to be ruined unless you get one real hell of a gulible octopus.

Breeding Sepia officinalis should be the easiest thing in the World to someone that can breed vulgaris! :P

I think he actually bred mercuralis (or however you spell it).

Were they large or small eggs you saw pics of?

BTW mecatoris I believe is what you are saying. They are very small compared to vulgaris :D

Yeah if he can breed an octo and raise them up to sell then he definetly should be able to breed the Euro Cuttle. :?

Sorry all...I botched his claim entirely. I have posted what he wrote to me below. We think he means "mecatoris" instead of Joibines (sp?):

"As the self proclaimed resident TCMAS cephlapod expert all I can say is WAHOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! What species is it? I have had both Bimacs - the loides and latus as well as several Vulgarus. I hatched and raised Joibines(mispelled) and attempted to mate Sephia Officanilus( the European Cuttlefish). Any questions or help feel free to come my way. I was thinking on getting another bi-mac but declined since I am keeping my system temperature around 80 F, which is near lethal to a bi-mac. DO NOT ADD COPPER!!!!!!!!!! Small amounts will wipe this ultra-sensitive invert out. I recomend keeping your tank temperature around 73-75 as this will extend their life span. Sorry for the poor spelling (I am balancing my 5 month old girl in the other arm who wants to copy Daddy and punch the little black keys on the big flat board.)"

Was that an email?

Nope, local forum.

Oh...

What's TCMAS?

Twin Cities Marine Aquarist Society

Twin Cities = Minneapolis/St.Paul (they are about five miles apart)

dont you just hate it when someone introduces themselves as an expert?! LOLOL :lol:

Kinda, pretty hao lian as we call it here.

dont you just hate it when someone introduces themselves as an expert?! LOLOL :lol:

That is annoying! :lol:

It's sort of like giving yourself an achievement award. :lol:

Hmmmmm I wonder if your "expert " would like to try that with our P. cordiformis I can just about guarantee he'd get a face full of ink. With our little guys ......he'd get bitten!

Ours are removed from time to time (gently) for a major tank clean and they've been known to wander round the back of the tank, up the stairs, into other tanks, into the drains, into the public viewing areas etc etc. Being out really doesn't seem to bother it!!! :lol:

J

Wow really?! A ceph which likes being out of water! Just hope no animals get to it. Have you ever seen this happen Jean?

Wow really?! A ceph which likes being out of water! Just hope no animals get to it. Have you ever seen this happen Jean?

Regularly :x you get quite a work out wrestling a 15-20kg Octopus back into it's tank, especially if it doesn't want to go! On cleaning days we put them in a (large) fish bin with a lid secured by heavy rocks! If you forget the rocks the octi is liable to go exploring!

It does depend on the individual tho', Mrs Henry has been very restful! She has shown little inclination to go exploring , even when we forgot to close the doors of the octopus fortess (the top of the tank is sealed with sliding perspex from the top of the tank to the ceiling!). Now that she's laid eggs she never leaves her pipe.

Cheers

J

Has anyone seen O. dofleini for sale in the past? Forgive me if I'm being naive, but my wife and I are going to be moving to California in about a year, and I'd like to set up a huge, dedicated O. dofleini tank at that time. Now, assuming I can find one somehow, is this feasible? I know how large they get, but I'm wondering if a 300g cube tank is large enough.

If I cannot find one to purchase, is it possible to find one via scuba diving? Thanks--just looking for more info.

They can be found for sale but i think that their sale is mostly restricted to sea life centers, public displays etc etc and i have to agree with that. I dont think even 300gals would let them get near full size.

if you were to get one I'd have to say go for about a minimum of a 6 foot cube which would be approx 1500 gals :) remember that (Enteroctopus) dofleni can get HUGE :)

I think from memory prices for juvs started at 600 - 800???

.. and you would need a serious chiller/filter :)

A pretty big chiller at that. Kepp in mind that on average their armtip to armtip can be 4 to 5 metres and that is very big. Don't forget their feeding, you gotta put quite alot of stuff in them to make them grow so big.

Thanks for the info. Can anyone recommend further reading material?

I'd say to just do a Google searh and there will be quite a few sites with info on their husbandry and enrichment, think of all the public aquariums with displays...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=giant+pacific+octopus+husbandry

I believe I have seen GPOs for sale somewhere about a year ago, but also, there is lots of diving activity in the area and I believe you could find one.

I was looking at an adult GPO just about a month ago. It's body is a little bigger than a basketball.

It would be nice to get one as a baby and raise it. They have a longer lifespan than bimacs, so you wold have longer to build a relationship.

Nancy

Nancy--you read my mind perfectly.

Lifespan up to 4 or 5 years I've heard. With a big enough tank I guess you could swim with it ( And make money out of that too :heee: ).

It is something that I will try to do one day but only once i have a bigger (much bigger) place to stay and with concrete floors!!!

I'll put that on my wish list. But we'll need a damn lot of acrylic :?

Just remember who your friend is when you need someone to fly across and build it for you!!!!!! :roll: :heee:

So how big would the tank have to be for a GPO? 30 by 10 feet or so?

Are you aware of anyone who's ever kept one other than an aquarium?

Someone on this site wanted to catch a baby recently and release it when it got too big.

Interesting!! Guess I would need to win the lottery to own one of them!! :mrgreen:

Carol

I don't think the GPO tank would have to be as large as you imagine. I recently saw one in a tank about 6 ft high, 5 ft wide, and 3 ft deep.
I'll see whether I can get more info.

Nancy

That's more doable. But then you wouldnt be able to swim with it. :heee:

That's more doable. But then you wouldnt be able to swim with it. :heee:

It would be too cold to swim with it, you'd need a chiller which is another couple hundred.

I am gonna make a dream tank. :)

(Like on paper :P )

Nancy--that sounds much more feasible. That's about the size I was planning. Something large, but not insane. I'm not going to build a swimming pool for the thing. :D

Perfect! A swimming pool!

Dang, my document didnt show up. :?


Ill just copy and paste:



Dream tank (for a GPO)


15’ high = 180 inches
10’ wide = 120 inches
30’ long = 360 inches

For a tank this massive concrete would have to be used.


10°C is 50°F. If kept in a basement or such room you wouldn’t even need a chiller. My basement can get to about 45°F. (Granted this is winter. )


Nick,
That’s what a diving suit is for. :heee:

I just one an enormous tank with kelp plenty of live rock swimming space for the octo and me. I just thought of something, wouldn't it be terrible if an octo inks, I guess a giant protein skimmer would be needed?

I remember seeing a Skimmer that was huge and it was in a link. Colin you remember?

I think it was live something but Im not sure. :(

I'd want tubes going around my house so my octo could follow me. That'd be :cool: .

Your right! That would be totally cool. 8) 8)

This (http://www.aqua-medic.de/cgi-bin/php/get_image.php3?id=22&field=1) should be big enough. :twisted:

The ocean or the big skimmer thing with the kid stuck under it?

Preferably the Skimmer. If it was the ocean it would be hard to find your octo. :(

But you'd be able to swim with them in it.
What's with the kid under the skimmer?

I think it's just to show how big the skimmer is.

Colin, didn't you have a 4 foot high skimmer before? One DIY skimmer at the LFS is about 5 ft high and is pretty large.

yes, i have the aquamedic 5000.. same company as that one with the kid beside it...

:roflmao:

I really wonder what would happen if the kid got sucked up the tube, it'd be quite some fun watching him get out :twisted:

:roflmao:

:lol:


That is :twisted:!

What can I say, I AM a saddist :twisted:

:mrgreen: