Okay this is probably the stupidest question asked here but we have tons of ladybugs around our house now, and the keep falling in to my tank. Will this hurt my octo? Also, I think Pudge ate one.

The proof that I've become an armchair aquarist is that when I read your question, Nick, my initial response was "That depends on the quantity of copper in ladybugs." :lol: :oops: Sorry.

Melissa

Nick,

Some types of ladybirds have toxic blood. The link below will tell you plenty about the beetles, but not which specific variants are toxic.

http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/beneficial/lady_beetles.htm

Are octos susceptible to alkaloid toxins?

Clem

if "pudge"hasnt died, dont let it near any more. if he STILL dosnt die, feed him another. if then he dies, :goofysca: if not , they might be good for it.



might

Cover up the tank and call the exterminator!!! Actually just covering the tank will do. Better be safe than sorry though.

As an avid reptile keeper, (chameleons especially), I can tell you that ladybugs as well as 'lightning bugs' both contain toxins. How they react to your octos physiology is unknown to me, however, I would guess the toxins can not be good as food or water additives.

I don't know about exterminating them!!! Aren't they good luck :) in your home??? I would go with extra covering of the tank! They will eventually die off.

Chamkeeper - Did you go to the reptile show near Reading this past weekend? I was amazed at all the venomous snakes there!

Carol

AH yes...the PA is the last bastion of "hot" reptiles...sigh. I wish we were a bit free-er out here on that subject...but, we can keep quite a few rattlesnakes. I used to have the nicest collection of tree vipers...
On the subject of the beetles... I wouldn't worry overmuch about one beetle being eaten, but I wouldn't push your luck...cover that tank! I think that spraying (the exterminator) would be worse than the beetles though...we stopped using toxins about 3 years ago...bought 6 banana geckos and just let them loose...works out great! (except for when we had to move...fast little buggers). Nary a cricket, scorpion, spider or roach shows its head for very long !
Greg

Nick, is Pudge OK?

Nancy

Pudge is still doing well although he still doesn't change colors like all the other octos that I hear about. I just finished covering the tank (again) with duct tape. We also have a bunch of boxelder bugs, are they as bad as the ladybugs?

Hi Nick,

I can't say about individual species of insects, but you shouldn't have
anything dropping into your tank! Make sure it's well covered and sealed.

Usually you allow for some ventilation (covers that come with the tanks have this built in). You can duct tape netting,etc. over any open areas, still keep your octo in and all else out.

Glad Pudge is OK!

Nancy

We also have had an abundance of ladybugs in our area; so much so that several articles have appeared about locally. Not a day goes by that I don't hear my daughter screeching because the "ladybirds" are chasing her or the crunch of tiny shells meaning we've either stepped on one or my dogs have found a snack.

Don't have an octo (yet) but I've always read that animals have an instinct for items that may be poisonous to them.

For instance, berry's that birds don't eat, people shouldn't touch. My dog will eat almost anything, but grapes or chocolate she won't touch and these things are poisonous to dogs.

An octopus, with all it's sensitivity, wouldn't it know if something was ok or not to eat? I also wonder if they ever eat insects outside of captivity? I am so curious about these marvelous creatures. I can't wait to get one myself. Simply biding my time.

I once researched using crickets and other terrestrial arthropods as food for octopus and cuttlefish. Amazingly, crickets are taken readily by both young octos and cuttles. Of course, you have this little problem in the drastic difference in environments the prey and pedator come from.

Cephalopods are one of the oldest groups of animals that inhabit this earth- predating insects by about a gazillion years. Can a cephalopod gain any usable nutrition from an insect? It's hard to say- so little is known. I believe James Wood did a quick nutritional analysis of crickets and cockroaches, but I don't remember the results of that study.

As for instinctually knowing that ladybugs are toxic...I'd doubt it. When in all of evolutionary history have octopuses encountered ladybugs on a level that an evolutionary shift could occur?

I understand that most terrestrial predators find ladybugs taste bad. Octos are very big on tasting food before devouring it, so if cephalopods have similar tastes as finches, I'd bet the octopus spit it out. (somebody pilot a study on feeding fiddler crabs and crayfish to finches!!!! :D)

I'd just call it an accident and not worry about it. Far worse things have fallen in my octopus tank without incident- including an iguana.

Cheers, Jim

a gazillion years
If only my math teacher took that answer... :cry:
:madsci:

He he he....

I didn't feel like looking it up. :P

if "pudge"hasnt died, dont let it near any more. if he STILL dosnt die, feed him another. if then he dies, :goofysca: if not , they might be good for it.



might
haha, that is funny. :P
How did a labybug get in your tank anyways??

They fly in to the back of the tank, climb on the filter and die in the water, I think.
Turns out that he did spit it out, a while ago I found a ladybug in his shell floating in the high point things.

wow, those critters got into your filter, It never crossed your mind that it would be sharing shelter with your ceph right? :D

My dog will eat almost anything, but grapes or chocolate she won't touch and these things are poisonous to dogs.


i knew chocolate was very bad but i never knew that grapes were poisonous to dogs, why is that?

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/grapeandraisin.htm

Here's a site that explains what happens. Looks like they don't understand whether it's the actual fruit or the pesticides used that are toxic. Either way, the result is far from pleasant.

How odd! My spanial Sam used to eat grapes occasionally.....never seemed to do him any harm (he lived to be ten, and had to eventually go when a combination of severe arthritis and alzheimers got too much for him :cry: :cry: ). Inerestingly Seamus (also a spaniel) won't have a bar of them end he's been known to eat octopus chips (on topic :lol: ) , vegemite and the odd plant pot!!

J

Well, I can't resist chiming in here, too -

My Dachshund Strudel loved chocolate and once got into a whole box of chocolate (while we were out) and even ate the foil wrappers. Yes, he had an upset stomach! And he was very fond of Fudgesicles, which didn't upset his stomach (but he only got a bite now and again).

Strudel scooped up anything that fell on the kitchen floor while I was cooking dinner, including grapes.

He lived until the ripe old age of 15.

Ollie Octopus, on the the other hand, has no interest in either chocolate or grapes!

Nancy

My dog doesn't eat chocolate, but can't get enough horse poo, and her sister ate dirty diapers and my sisters underwear down in Iowa.

Another question - Pudge hasn't been coming out as much, he just brings all his marbles and crab shells in his shell, since I put the black serpent star in, and the serpent star just sits in Pudge's big, cozy den waving its thingys. Should I take it back?

Hiya, Holly is a nice boxer!!! I like boxers! My friend had one and she was the most loving dog, although Maribelle's desire to be a lap dog could be a little uncomfortable at times!!

J

would a vet be needed? :idea:

Try taking the serpent star out again. If it's so much bigger than Pudge that it can drive him from his den, it may be the reason Pudge is laying low. You want to create a happy, non-threatening environment for Pudge.

Nancy

Thanks Nancy, I lured it out with krill and put it in the five gallon, it'll go back to the LFS tommorrow.
One more question: Besides size, what is the difference between bimaculoides and bimaculoites? I tried looking it up on cephbase but my computer is crap and won't load it. I think it has to do with the eye spots.....

HI Nick,

Do you mean bimaculatus and bimaculoides? If so then according to Normans Cephs of the world bimaculoides is more active during the day, smaller (arms to 35cm vs arms to 80cm) larger egg size and a different eye spot (ocellus) to bimaculatus! The difference in eye spot is that bimaculoides has a ring in the form of unbroken chain links and bimaculatus has a ring in the form of broken chain links!!!! :read: :grad:

hope this helps

J

Thanks Jean,
Last night I saw something on a piece of rock that looked like an orange serpent star arm, did my black one have babys? I took out the rock ( it was the one with the anemones) and put it in to Moo the cowfishes tank.

Not terrifically likely Nick, there are only a few stars that brood, the rest broadcast spawn (ie chuck eggs & sperm into the water and hope for the best!) The larvae then spend some time in the plankton. You probably have another star! they're pretty good at hiding or maybe even one of the worm family! if it is a worm Moo may enjoy the snack!

cheers

J

Moo is too small to eat it, he's only the size of a pea, and I think it's is already dead since poor little Moo did that thing were he releases that poison stuff and kills everything but him.

Where did you get Moo?

Moo was at the LFS, marked as a "dwarf cowfish". I didn't want to get him at first because I read that they get big but the LFS owners say the mature slowly. He's been swimming in happy little circles for a week now, and is starting to get horns.
Holly just got home from the vet for surgery, trust me, you do not want to know.

The super intelligent Moo was outsmarted by the filter, a piece of krill was stuck there and he got stuck on it so I had to turn the filter off, cut up some krill for him, and now he continues to swim in happy little circles while Pudge watches him from his tank. :roll:
:tentacle::goldfish:

How's Holly?

J

Holly's fine, just sore and doesn't smell like bellybutton lint anymore.

Holly's fine, just sore and doesn't smell like bellybutton lint anymore.

:shock:

Holly's fine, just sore and doesn't smell like bellybutton lint anymore.

:shock:
double shock! :shock: :shock:

Another question that I should know the answer to- Is 65 degrees Fahrenheit an ok temp for bimacs?

http://www.tonmo.com/cephcare/checklist.php
look at no.9

Would one of you with access to the NRCC please find out what the water temperature for their bimacs is? (Do they still have bimacs?) I had heard that they breed the bimacs at 65 degrees, but don't remember whether that's their normal water temperature.

The lower seventies is about as low as is practical to keep a bimac without a chiller. Although bimacs tolerate some fluctuation in temperature, you don't want large daily fluctuations.

Also, some researchers claim that bimacs live longer in lower temperatures. Would like to find out more details.

Nancy

I can understand how it would lengthen their lifespan; having a lower temp. generally lowers metabolism which causes the Octo the grow slower and so increase lifespan.

then of course there's the fact that colder water can hold more oxygen....

True. But its odd because I have heard that coldwater fish need more oxygen than tropical fish. Wonder why. :?

I think its more the case that goldfish, which are the most commonly kept coldwater fish, are really messy feeders compared to most tropical fish and need bigger filters.

Anyway, if you have a tank at room temperature for goldfish.. even where I live that would be about 68 - 70deg F then that's not coldwater like what coldwater fish would really live in... hence they require more O2 to live there...

I suppose it's all how you define 'coldwater'... 70degF is cold for an angelfish but roasting for a goldfish.....