Hi anarchokia, and welcome. Check your private messages. :smile:

Thanks for the quick response!

cant seem to get access to the reference database on cephbase; the link seems to be broken. (or I'm inept, just as likely:smile:)

What I'm in search of is an scientific article that gives a decent overview of Mesonychoteuthis hamiltoni. My professor will not allow us to use secondary sources....

Thanks for all the brilliant info!

Thanks for the quick response!

cant seem to get ask to the reference database on cephbase; the link seems to be broken. (or I'm inept, just as likely:smile:)

What I'm in search of is an scientific article that gives a decent overview of Mesonychoteuthis hamiltoni. My professor will not allow us to use secondary sources....

Thanks for all the brilliant info!

I usually use google scholar to find stuff in cephbase, and then follow the direct links.

For extra confusion, there are two different copies of cephbase, since it moved around between cephbase.(net?org?) and some utmb.edu or similar URL, and I've found that one or both are broken at any given time, but at least one works well enough to grab the pdfs if you can find the link... I'm hoping that'll get reliably fixed at some point... I hadn't checked recently and someone said it was working again, but it sounds like you're running into the same old problems.

Each of these URLs has worked for me at some point:

http://www.cephbase.utmb.edu/
http://www.cephbase.org/
http://www.cephbase.dal.ca/

Hmm.

On a related note, Steve, I just listened to you and your esteemed colleagues "Science Express" Q&A, and am happy to hear that the idea of female Meso brooding young inside her mantle isn't dead yet. We kicked that idea around here back in 2003, but damned if I can find the thread it came up in. Anyhow, congratulations to you, Kat, Ku, Mark and Olaf for a job very, very well done. It was a kick to watch.

Clem

Although extremely speculative, the idea certainly isn't dead, and the absence of a nidamental gland, combined with the somewhat extraordinary widening of the anterior mantle upon transition to maturity in females are contenders for supporting evidence. Now, if only there was convincing evidence in brooding behaviour in other cranchiidae,..., none that I know of, anyway, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Spermatophore positioning could render another strong clue, but we have not been able to look at that in great detail in either specimen. I further suspect that the smaller of the two was too far away from sexual maturity to have engaged in any "cuddling" of sorts, but when Steve goes back to te papa and stitch up Frankenmeso, readying her for display, I'm quite sure he'll give her a thorough investigation to said extent :wink:

He's like that...

Do you know which arm the hectocotylus is in on the squid?

Do you know which arm the hectocotylus is in on the squid?

I'm pretty sure that somewhere back in this thread, it's mentioned that because the mature males are unknown in Mesonychoteuthis no one knows. Steve has said he's never observed one on Architeuthis, which of course doesn't mean a whole lot since they're pretty unrelated, and for extra confusion, Nesis describes one on Architeuthis that seems inconsistent with what Steve's seen, so there's something funny going on (maybe Nesis just got a damaged specimen or something... it seems like Steve's seen enough of these that he's got grounds for certainty.)

This thread is where I'm getting the Architeuthis stuff, if that's at all useful:

http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11968

As it was thawing, there was a moment where someone thought they saw one, but since the squid turned out to be female, I'm not sure what was up with that... perhaps one of the participants can discuss that, if it's not "super double secret information."

We need a 007 title marker so Steve can let us know when we are getting secret info ;>)

I have a question steve would this be a extreme huge specimen or would it be like average weight? Also was this a fully mature female.

The one that we've just examined, the 495kg female, is likely to weigh in at the heavier end of the scale, but given the LRL was 41.5mm (and varied on both sides of the jaw), and we know that the LRL can attain 49mm, the species is likely to get considerably heavier (but possibly shorter, if the tentacles atrophy with sexual maturity).

Of course the male is largely unknown (it is known, but not sufficiently described to determine much), and the beak of this sex could be larger relative to mantle length than that of the female. We have a few more specimens to examine yet, just no time at present to do so. As soon as the material is available to us and analysed we'll post something preliminary here (hopefully we do have that male).

If the male beak is larger relative to ML then we could be at the higher end of the weight scale for the female we've just examined.

I seem to have lost all of my energy this last week. I'd post more, but am struggling a bit. It would help if Neil Diamond posted a PM!

The one that we've just examined, the 495kg female, is likely to weigh in at the heavier end of the scale, but given the LRL was 41.5mm (and varied on both sides of the jaw), and we know that the LRL can attain 49mm, the species is likely to get considerably heavier (but possibly shorter, if the tentacles atrophy with sexual maturity).
Thanks Mr O shea. That is intresting that the heavier Mesonychoteuthis gets the shorter.

Te Papa now has a picture gallery of the squid thaw and such here:

http://www.tepapa.govt.nz/images/squidgallery.aspx

Te Papa has 2 of the squid lectures available now: http://blog.tepapa.govt.nz/2008/05/22/lectures-available/

They say that copyright issues prevent the others from being published, which is a shame, as I was looking forward to hearing Kat and Ku.

Keep in mind the fact that I was exhausted, hadn't slept much the night before (an hr or so), had had a similar week, and was a 'bit under stress'. Quite a lack-lustre (and embarassing) performance from me I'm afraid (though I haven't watched the video)

Then again, this is to be expected after a "breakfast plus" experience, no chance to recuperate because of that devil woman (You go Kat :smile:)

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii37/blaauw67/IMGP2826.jpg

PS: That is indeed a second plate you see before you...

PPS: There was absolutely NO sour cream involved :wink:

On a further note, for posterity, a little portrait of Steve and Ku, when they where still happy and lively...

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii37/blaauw67/IMGP2821.jpg

Kat's had that plant growing from her back for months now; I wish she'd see a doctor about it, before it seeds.

Speaking of which, preggers again, Steve?

Sorry, off topic :wink:

Thanks for posting those pics. NIce to see them all smiley and everything.

There's many more I'd like to post, but they will require clearing with te papa :wink:

One that wouldn't (for it was taken off premises of a specimen not part of their collection) is of what I consider the most important squid I saw that entire week, a mature female Teuthowenia pellucida, with all kinds of details that gave some wonderfully challenging insights when considering her bigger cousin.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii37/blaauw67/IMGP2936.jpg

And this is what a moment of discovery looks like :smile:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii37/blaauw67/IMGP2937.jpg

Hi Olaf,

Great photos.

Clem

And this is what a moment of discovery looks like :smile:
Such penny-drop moments are too few in life; you sure-did did manage to capture the moment!

Kat's had that plant growing from her back for months now; I wish she'd see a doctor about it, before it seeds.

You don't like Shady?? :cry: But someday I had planned on a tree octopus...

BTW, regarding the ketchup, one of the camera guys asked me on the sly if we could cover the head-shine somehow... that was the impromptu solution. :twisted:

And a much needed one at that :wink:

Colossal move:
The colossal squid specimen will be moved from the formalin fixing tank to its new display tank on Tuesday 5th August. We hope to have a webcam up and running from around 9am NZ time - during the morning we will be examining the specimen with Dr Steve to determine what repairs, if any, need to be made to the rip in the mantle, and manouvering it onto a lifting cradle. The actual lift should take place around 2pm. Once in the new tank over the next few months we will be developing the display and lighting, while the specimen is mounted in the tank before it goes on display at Te Papa in early December.

Thanks M. Here we go again ......

:fingerscrossed:

Maybe you should wear gloves this time, Steve.

Thanks M. Here we go again ......

It's all falling into place...or past it anyway. The shift has been bumped a day to Wednesday 6th to cope with a minor glitch.
Rumour has it we will be webcasting in High Definition

To true Steve,

Once more into the breech dear friends, once more,
Or close the wall up with our British dead,
In peace there’s nothing so becomes a man,
As modest, stillness, and humility,
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard – favour’d rage,
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Let pry through the portage of the head,
Like the brass cannon; let the brow o’erwhelm it,
As fearfully as a galled rock,
O’erhang and jutty his confounded base,
Swill'd with the wild and wasteful ocean.
Now set the teeth, and stretch the nostril wide;
Hold hard the breath, and bend up every spirit
To his full height! - on, on, ye noblest English,
Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!
Fathers, that, like so many Alexanders,
Have in these parts from morn till even fought,
And sheath'd their swords for lack of argument.
Dishonour not your mothers; now attest
That those whom you call'd fathers did beget you!

Lets hope our girl is still under the shutter's, its a pity Ob, Kat, and Ku won't be at this party....

"baldtankman?"

Mark Fenwick?

:welcome:

"baldtankman?"

Mark Fenwick?

:welcome:

Circumstantial evidence would suggest you hit the nail on the ummm head. :sagrin:

http://www.nzpaimages.co.nz/events.php?event_id=5804&show_all=0&page_no=0

Check out the last page of pics as well

Hi there,

yes its me, I have been dragged out of retirement for one last huurrah!

Hi Clem

:welcome: (although, of course, you had a presence before actually posting :wink:)

Thanks for the welcome dwhatley and monty, I am pleased to be recognised as me and not my mate Rick W :) Look out for me next week.... of to beer land now

Thanks for the welcome dwhatley and monty, I am pleased to be recognised as me and not my mate Rick W :) Look out for me next week.... of to beer land now

and entirely voluntary tooo . . . .

Hi Mark,

I'm guilty of having misidentified you at one point, and now view all newspaper photo captions with suspicion. I'll mos def be watching next week.

Cheers,
Clem

Forgiven Clem!

Entirely something yes Myopsida, and I hear that my mate Ob is off chasing eclipses, and beautiful women, hard to believe the location he picked though... I hope that the whole crowd here enjoys the next few days, it should be fun,

Cheers
M

Looking forward to the webcast!

J

The webcams are being installed today (Monday NZ time) - there may be some trial broadcasts tomorrow afternoon . . . we'll be standing around discussing how we are going to turn the specimen over - it looks like the tissue is fairly soft and the rip in the mantle is a worry.

http://www.tepapa.govt.nz/TePapa/English/CollectionsAndResearch/CollectionAreas/NaturalEnvironment/Molluscs/ColossalSquid/

Ooooohh.... I am extremely anxious about the whole turning event, too many images in my mind of attempting to turn in pre-fixing condition and not at all too sure on how gelatinous tissues fix to start with.... :shock:

I hope I'll be able to watch upon my return from the taiga....

i'll be waiting and watching with great anticipation. Oh, by the way, :welcome: Mark!

Thank for the welcome Sorseress, if you guys are keen we will try a timed wave just for the Tonmo crew!

Welcome Mark, and thanks for joining!

Thank for the welcome Sorseress, if you guys are keen we will try a timed wave just for the Tonmo crew!

That would be totally cool! :cool:

Hi Tonmo,

its great to be here. Okay its looking good for aan early start tomorrow so how about you guys nominate a nzs time for us to give the Tonmo crew a wave? Preferably sometime before noon here. Sorry if its an early start or late night for you...

M

Is the East Coast 16 hours behind you? 11:30 PM (1330) our time now. So Noon tomorrow would be 8:00 PM our time right? The website says 2:00 to 5:00 PM our time but I think the is for our West Coast (3 hours behind East Coast)

For our members around the globe.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

My suggestion would be at some time toward the end of the process. From the west coast point of view, most people will be home from work, and from the East coast most people will still be up. That doesn't address the concerns of our European friends, however.

Is the webcast working for you at the moment? I get some weird "no player for this stream" message, even though it worked last night, and I'm trying to figure out if it's my problem or that the webcast is down....

Is the webcast working for you at the moment? I get some weird "no player for this stream" message, even though it worked last night, and I'm trying to figure out if it's my problem or that the webcast is down....

Looks like there's a problem with the webcam....we'll check it out as soon as we finish our meusli and get into the lab . . . . (It's 7.30 here now)

I'm not getting it either. I have Windows Media open and am getting a message with several suggestions about what might be wrong...wrong name, wrong proxy settings, server is down, whatever. What time is it there? 7:35 am. Probably they have the webcam turned off.

Ditto here

Bummer

It's working for me now...

Me too 8-)

Working for me, though the lift wrap is muffling a lot of what's being said. Despite that, I gather that Steve and Mark are going to have a lot of mantle sewing to do.

I'm getting it now, though I was away from the computer for about 2 hours, and have no idea what I missed.

I wish they would raise the camera slightly as everyone is headless

Thanks!!!

Does anyone have a clue about what's going on now? Also, the picture is very strange...like everything is seen in negatives. Anyone else have that problem, or is it just my computer?

Cancel that last, now the picture is good.

Note: Steve is NOT wearing gloves. Does he never learn?

Note: Steve is NOT wearing gloves. Does he never learn?

I was just going to post the same thing!

NO one else is either, but after his recent experiences, you would think that HE would think.....

Mark,
Starboard and Port only work if you have an identifiable bow ;>)

Is anyone else having touble hearing what they are saying?

Mark,
Starboard and Port only work if you have an identifiable bow ;>)

You can lead a horse to water but can't make SOS do anything . . . Mark is having problems because Olaf stretched the waders!

Sorry about the light fluctuations - we wre trying filming with the door open or shut (its a sunny day here for a change!) but have decided doors shut is best....

I'm getting a high pitch whine, but I can hear them ok.

it's quiet for me, but I can barely hear it... unfortunately, I have to go out for a while, though...

yeah, well I should eating, sewing, responding to messages and studying chemistry, but .... big big squid to watch

:smile: You have your priorities right. But you can eat and watch big squid simultaneously.

Myopsida, which one are you? The distinguished looking gentleman with the red collar, greying sideburns and glasses?

:smile: You have your priorities right. But you can eat and watch big squid simultaneously.

only if I can make myself leave the computer long enough to cook something :roll:

sigh.....I have to go teach a class........my mind is not going to be on rock lobster that's for sure, I wonder if I can persuade the powers that be to link the labs computers and projector to the great shift instead of crustacean anatomy??!!!

J

Good Luck, Jean!

well nothing seems to be happening anyway right now. But thanks to you I've got the B52's song stuck in my head right now.

At least you now have enough time to eat!

Already did, frozen potstickers are quick to make. Now I'm just trying to work up the motivation to sew. We are doing skirt dancing tomorrow in bellydance class and I want some bloomers to wear under the 12yard skirt I made.

Hi folks,

just letting you know we pumped off all the water monday so the squid is in water so we are risking the no gloves thing so we can better tell if our baby is ok..

Hope your enjoying the show, will try to organise a team wave just before the last lift and shift!

Happy moving day
Mark

the glove comments had more to do with a string of tonmo hand injuries (and SOS refusing to tend to his) than the composition of the tank water :wink:

sigh.....I have to go teach a class........my mind is not going to be on rock lobster that's for sure, I wonder if I can persuade the powers that be to link the labs computers and projector to the great shift instead of crustacean anatomy??!!!

J

Too bad you can't internet the rock lobster to esquid, then she could have dinner :wink:

Steve got a nasty infection that had to be scraped out from handling dead flesh....then had us all convinced he had to have his left thumb amputated. He's evil. :twisted:

Bravo! Transfer completed!

Thanks for the wave, folks. It might not have been directed at Tonmo, but we'll take it!:smile::cuttlehi: (No waving squid smiley)

Cool, caught most of it. Went out for a smoke and missed the wave :smoke: Very nice line of double granny grannies Steve :lol:

I am a competent seamstress, and Steve's sewing makes me shudder!

I am a competent seamstress, and Steve's sewing makes me shudder!

At least he was using a locking stitch :wink:

Too bad there is not a super glue that would work and last in salt water. Even a glue that would hold long enough to stitch it up would be helpful.

That would be ideal wouldn't it? I think I remember reading somewhere that there is some glue that is being used, or at least tested in surgical procedures, but the alcohol solution would probably not allow that to work, and who knows if the formulin would complicate things.

Hi again,
I am out and warming up nicely, the wave was for you guys, but I had a bit of a hitch in the plan so couldn't get it in before the shift. I am glad that its all over and it went sweet as!

Hope you enjoyed the show, its hard to tell what you saw because we can't review the footage.

Cheers
Mark

The pictures were great, wonderful clarity. I think we saw just about everything. The only frustrating part was hearing all the frivolity in the background when nothing was happening in the tank. You guys seemed to be having a great time.

The pictures were great, wonderful clarity. I think we saw just about everything. The only frustrating part was hearing all the frivolity in the background when nothing was happening in the tank. You guys seemed to be having a great time.

Frivolity? . . . that was just in repsonse to Steve's sewing ...

Hope you enjoyed the show, its hard to tell what you saw because we can't review the footage.

I saved a low-res version, which, although I'm not allowed to retransmit, I could presumably send to you somehow if you want. I didn't quite start it at the beginning, though, and it's 175MB.

Let me know if that's worth whatever it'd take to get 175MB to you... or if you can get a better version through the official channels.

Mark is having problems because Olaf stretched the waders!

I heard that :smile:

Such a shame, en route aboard an ageing Ilyushin, when this all happened :sad: I've checked the blog though, seems to have come off rather nicely!

Such a shame, en route aboard an ageing Ilyushin, when this all happened :sad: I've checked the blog though, seems to have come off rather nicely!

It all went rather smoothly. .. .. . .

Hey folks, there are some new pics of Messie on the Te Papa blog. Great closeups and shots of the eyes.

I just showed the pics to my husband, who promptly identified cthulhu! :mesonych: or :cthulhu:? That is the question!

Get two pounds of butter and try and stitch them together so that when you pull one block away the other follows suit (and the stitches don't tear it).

Honestly, it was almost impossible (we could have done some lovely cosmetic superficial stuff, but that wouldn't hold anything together). (And it wasn't easy balanced somewhat precariously over a very large tank, with a squid a half-metre below the lip, with lovely residual formalin.)

I see a TONMOCON III challenge/competition here (stitching butter); just to make it a little more challenging we should be blindfolded (and we can still race little cuttlefish cars around the carpark).

Would this be salted or unsalted butter?

As Jean said, it's actually the giant squid we believe to be more the sit-and-wait type (very small fins, relatively weak mantle musculature, body not strongly attached to mantle - all things that would be problematic for prolonged, fast swimming), while the colossal appears to be a very active swimmer (extremely large fins, very thick, muscular mantle, head fused to the mantle as in all cranchiids (http://tolweb.org/Cranchiidae)).

The giant and colossal squids are in different families (Architeuthidae and Cranchiidae respectively); each family is a group of genera that have certain morphological traits in common, so some of the differences are 'because' they're in different families (or, you could say they're in different families because of some of the differences), e.g. the means by which the head is attached to the mantle. Within the families there can also be a wide range of morphologies - different relative fin-size or arm-length for example. Have a look at some of the cranchiids at the link above - even the eyes vary a lot (and some are very strange (http://tolweb.org/Taonius/19558).) The cranchiids are morphologically quite diverse, so Mesonychoteuthis has some big (ha ha) differences even from other genera in the same family. With Architeuthis, it's hard to say what variations there could be within the family, because at present (according to genetics at least), there is only one genus and species worldwide, Architeuthis dux.

Hope this helps.

:smile:

Would it be logical to assume it would hunt like other cranchiids? What behaviors do the cranchiids share?

You might wish to be a bit more precise, are you inquiring after specific methods of predation? We learn very little from specimens in jars. Forward facing vision and a rather large funnel favour an assumed cockatoo position or J pose, but no one has witnessed M. hamiltoni in its natural habitat, actively hunting. We can assume that the females appear fond of hooked toothfish towards reaching maturity, but that is fundamentally anecdotal based on the specimens captured thus far.