there appears to be a bit of audio now... with a lot of hum, but I can hear clanks on the table and a bit of laughing...

All of a sudden I'm getting sound!

...getting close to the big fella's bath...and I don't mean ob...no sound on my Mac.

yay! sound!

Just lost the sound. Darn!

Sounds back. Yea!

Sound is on and off, on and off.

Sound is on and off, on and off.

The sound was on and off for us here at AUT too. If I didn't have this whole Ph.D thing hanging over me I'd be on the next plane down there!

I'll post more captures from Te Papa's feed when I can grab them (and when fun stuff is happening). Here's a cap from last night. The Colossal Squidcicle has just been lowered into the defrosting tank and the crew is removing the plastic tarp that the crew of the San Aspiring wrapped around the squid. The green stuff on top of the block is a cargo net used to land the squid. In frame, clockwise from lower left are Tsunemi Kubodera, Kat Bolstad and Rick Webber, invertebrate curator at Te Papa. Rick is sluicing brine onto the squid to unstick the tarp.

Clem

Muy interesante.

So... are colossal squids actually classified separately from normal squids? or are they the same species, but much larger??

:cry: :cry: :cry:owwwwwwwwwwwww.... I missed it, i was on the webcams all saturday night and nothing, then i dont go on on sunday and everything happens, what up with this!!! :roll:

Thanks Clem, I was wondering who he (Rick) was.

I like the new arrangement of the four camera link. We can see all of them at once. Nothing happening now, but it's still early on Tuesday morning in NZ. I guessed that you were monitoring our posts. Thanks for your responsiveness, it's great to be able to hear what's going on.

Camera 4 is kaput. Hope all is well, this is far too interesting to miss.

Sorry, scratch that. It's fine, it must have been the connection. Apologies.

The cameras are out of sync again. It may not matter, but....

Looks like they are starting to pull some of the net off the colossal squid - its pretty amazing to be watching this live on the other side of the world. No sound at the moment though. Plenty of action and someone keeps waving a sign at the camera which might say FM Rocket....but I'm not sure!

How neat! So fun to see the squid and all the commotion... Hey - are they filming for TV right now? Looks like a TV crew is there! Maybe a special for the Discovery Channel?! (Don't see any network identification on the crew or equipment making me think it's not the local news...)

One thing I thought was really good was seeing people next to the big giant squid on the table - got a real good feel for the scale of it, especially as it was live with people moving around. That's a damn big squid - can't wait to see the big colossal one laid out on the table....

It's the Discovery channel along with a Kiwi television station. It's on Tonmo somewhere, I'll see if I can find it. Steve is wired for sound, but apparently the web cast people haven't turned their sound back on after turning it off last night. Yep, it's a big squid. The block weighs 490 Kilograms. How much of that is squid and how much is ice, I don't know, but it's one big squidcicle!

you're not going to see discovery channel stickers on the cameras. most shows are filmed by freelance crews, i learned that when i got taped for a learning channel show last summer. But they have been taping for discovery since sat (our time). It was pretty funny watching them take dozens to step up shots of the freezer opening and closing.

Any one who hasn't started reading the Te Papa blogs, really should. They are very interesting, and full of info.

From a few minutes ago, Olaf and Kat helping Rick (off camera, with hose) to keep the brine flowing. I think Olaf's holding one of the circulators, possibly to suction debris or perhaps to help pull the tarp and net off the squidcicle's side. What I'm getting at is that I don't know what's going on. Please send help.

Clem

There dissecting the giant squid now.....pretty incredible! Think they just took the beak out....

The tepapa blog now has two group pictures that ID most of the people that we've been seeing on camera.

The Timaru Herald identified the company doing the filming as Natural History New Zealand.

We have sound. Can hear people talking, but not well enough to understand what they are saying.

There dissecting the giant squid now.....pretty incredible! Think they just took the beak out....

I'm pretty sure that was measuring the beak of the smaller colossal squid specimen.

Muy interesante.

So... are colossal squids actually classified separately from normal squids? or are they the same species, but much larger??

"normal squids" is almost a contradiction... there are a huge variety of squids, and, surprisingly, several that are only slightly related reach very large size. The "Giant Squid" genus Architeuthis (http://tolweb.org/Architeuthis) is certainly different from the "Colossal Squid" genus Mesonychoteuthis (http://tolweb.org/Mesonychoteuthis_hamiltoni/19556) which is actually grouped with some small squids called Cranchiids, or glass squids, because mostly are small and transparent.

They're both classified under the family Oegopsida (http://tolweb.org/Oegopsida/19407) but that's actually quite a broad classification. Most common "market squids" are in Myopsida (http://tolweb.org/Myopsida/52670), a sister family to Oegopsida, so they're even more distantly related. The classifications of squids are complicated and kind of esoteric, though, and since Coleoida are very ancient and diverse, so it's pretty complicated to keep track of all the criteria scientists use to classify them. The fact sheet (http://www.tonmo.com/science/public/giantsquidfacts.php) gives a nice overview of the differences between giant and colossal squids, in case my above taxonomic is too full of all the "funnel locking aparatus" and "retina covered by a cornea" sorts of stuff...

I can't hear voices too well, but I did just hear Olaf say "Hi, Adam" just in case you missed it...

Finally got some video :grin: It seems Dr Kubodera has retrieved the statoliths from the Archie and they've a first go at measuring the beak of the big one (it's protruding from the buccal mass) 43-45mm lower rostral length...............BIG :shock: but they also say that Steve's seen some from sperm whale stomachs that are 49mm on that measurement......so there are bigger squid out there!

J

indeed :cheers:

I don't see a lot of new folks posting, though... have you checked if the traffic is up?
Traffic has about quadrupled. Peak has not yet been reached. Some coverage:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7367774.stm

http://tepapa.govt.nz/TePapa/English/CollectionsAndResearch/CollectionAreas/NaturalEnvironment/Molluscs/ColossalSquid/BiologyOfColossalSquid.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/apr/28/4

And great coverage in Newsweek, but unfortunately no plug for TONMO.com!

http://www.newsweek.com/id/134482

I'm pretty sure that was measuring the beak of the smaller colossal squid specimen.
Hi Monty,

No, I think David got that one right; Kat and Ku were filmed with an Archi on the slab over an an hour ago, and Ku extracted one beak half.

Three more caps below, the first showing Kat and Mark cutting away the cargo net from the brachial crown while Steve holds onto Mesonychoteuthis's tentacular clubs, which don't look obviously larger than those from the smaller 2003 and 2005 specimens. Interesting. Olaf is next to Steve. Second, Kat and Mark continue to remove the net as Tsunemi goes in to take caliper measurements of the beak. Third, Olaf talks to me on the phone as Kat prepares to don the white coat. He may have eaten more of the smaller Meso. The skin of Mesonychoteuthis sounds quite different to that of Architeuthis and will be fun to speculate about. They hope to have the big Meso defrosted by Wednesday, the operative word being 'hope.'

I didn't hear Olaf say "Hi Adam," but I did hear Steve say it. This is so much fun. They're off for tea, now.

Geeking out,
Clem

Clem -- thanks for these screen grabs -- I tried to do that but couldn't grab the image. Appreciate the coverage!

Great pictures Clem - thank you.

I managed to text Kat and Olaf about an hour ago and they waived hello - cheers chaps! They have really got a huge and laborious job ahead of them but it makes for fascinating viewing.

What exactly were the team fishing out with the small nets? Was it small lumps of ice do you think?

Thanks, Clem!

Check out camera 3 now.

What exactly were the team fishing out with the small nets? Was it small lumps of ice do you think?
Hi Phil,

I''ll ask about it the next time I talk to Olaf, but I'm pretty sure they were lumps of Colossal Squid. I saw Rick hand one lump to someone off camera and grin. I think there's a lot of opportunistic feeding going on down there.

Thanks for your great screen-caps, Phil. Between us I think we'll both provide good coverage. (Thanks for the hat-tip, Tony.)

Clem

I have no idea if anyone's using this information, but my improved linux viewing preference is:

totem-xine --no-existing-session http://www.r2.co.nz/20080427/camera-4.asx &

provided in case it's helpful for anyone.

Wow... SCIENCE!!!

Last night they were scooping detritus with that net, Steve was worrying about a bacterial explosion.

possibly of some help in viewer comprehension, some squid anatomy info:

http://encarta.msn.com/media_461553803/generalized_anatomy_of_a_squid.html

http://giantsquid.msstate.edu/LessonList/dissection.html

http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/images/Squid%20Dissection%20Pix.htm

http://biog-101-104.bio.cornell.edu/BioG101_104/tutorials/animals/squid.html

"Don't pull on that, you never know what it might be attached to!" -- Buckaroo Banzai, during brain surgery

Thanks for posting the link for the vid with subtitles. Really cool!

many thanks to whoever's started giving play-by-play subtitles on camera4!

They are doing a great job of making this as accessible as possible. Kudos to Chris(?) or who ever is responsible. :notworth:

Well, there's a lot of Mesonychoteuthis going on. In the first shot, the big Meso post-cleaning and without netting. In the second, unexpected shot, an underwater view of the squid, showing one tentacle on the right and one tentacular club on the left. The underwater appeared without preamble and only lasted for a minute. A test-run, perhaps?

Now, they've just put the smaller meso on a dissection table. Time to switch back.

Clem

Just heard the guy who's talking say that if you're into squid this is the equivalent of the moon landing! :grin: I'll buy that!

Just heard the guy who's talking say that if you're into squid this is the equivalent of the moon landing! :grin: I'll buy that!

Or you could combine the two (http://www.tmcm.com/comics/tags/squid/tmcm071008)

:lol::lol::lol:

Darn! What's going on with camera 4?

it seems to be fixed now, but if it happens again, camera 3 is showing something almost identical at the moment, but maybe without the sounds (I have all 4 open)

I keep switching back and forth between all four and camera four. I appreciate the size of the image on camera 4. Sounds like they're trying to build the lab while they're working. Lots of hammering and crashing going on.

Hi Sorseress,

I've been doing some hammering of my own. Here's a composite of three overhead shots, the smaller Mesonychoteuthis on the dissecting tables. At the join of the two large images is a smaller, superimposed pic of someone holding a ruler over the squid's head. I did notice that a close-up of the mantle break revealed part of the squid's gladius; I wish I'd seen more of it, but I'm not complaining.

Time for bed.

Clem

we (well, mostly Steve) got a call-out in the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/apr/28/4

Steve O'Shea, a squid expert based in Auckland, told the Tonmo.com website that his team would first measure the "beak" the creature uses to cut its food into tiny pieces.

The largest beak so far recovered is 49mm long, but the immature female O'Shea dissected in 2003 had a beak 38mm long and a body length of 2.5 metres.

Actually, from what we've seen tonight, it seems like they take pretty big bites...

Hasn't the web cast been brilliant. Hat's off to TePapa for organising it, I hope it's the way of the future for these kinds of events.

:notworth:

Hi all, a dispatch from the Southern front. As you may have gathered, we have been "working" on the Big Squid since Monday, but have not been sitting still in the mean time, "watching squid thaw".

We have examined an Architeuthis of 1.70 ML to start with, going through the motions but (in my case) learning a lot in the process. The difference between reading up on anatomy and section and actually doing it, is obviously fundamental, especially if you can watch over Ku's shoulder doing it:wink:

As could be expected, Archi was without caecal content, bar three nematode parasites. The "damaged" Meso was, however, a total different story. Not in as much that it gave up its feeding habbits (this bit is still frozen), But we were privileged enough to for the first time see its eyes! Pictures will undoubtedly follow later, but although the specimen was damaged and the eyes mere gelatinous blobs (Haliphrons on this forum rejoice!), we were able to piece together the evidence for roughly 20 cm eyes on a 1,65 m ML beast, with a 5 cm bulging lens within an 8 cm perfectly round aperture. There are indeed two slender photophores ventral to the eyes. The big challenge is now to see wether the Big specimen provides sufficient information to allow us to determine whether the animal assumes a cockatoo or J posture and swivels its eyes forward to allow stereoscopic vision, like in other (smaller) cranchids.

We will also attempt to get a good look inside the mantle tomorrow and try to assess the internal organs, expect news to follow. Tomorrow will also see the Big Thaw, so do check our webcams if you can. The latter actually don't do this animal much justice: it is massive, period. Although quite speculative right now, I am taking a 3 m ML into account...

So many exciting things to go for, I am , however, really knackered after a long day, so signing off :smile:

PS, a big cheers from the entire team here :squidaut:

Tomorrow will also see the Big Thaw, so do check our webcams if you can. The latter actually don't do this animal much justice: it is massive, period. Although quite speculative right now, I am taking a 3 m ML into account...
You do remember our bet, don't you? :wink:

Outstanding work, Olaf. All of you are giving us a lot to think about. It's been fascinating to watch. :notworth:

Big cheers back,
Clem

Fantastic stuff coming from down there, keep up the good work.:notworth:
:mesonych::squidaut:

Uh-oh.

It appears that the smaller Mesonychoteuthis has gone zombie and is making a run for it. Lock your doors, Wellington!

:goodbye:

Hey guys,
I saw the article on CNN.com, when it said the necropsy would be streaming live on line, I thought TONMO might have something to do with it, or know something about it! This is pretty exciting Steve, Congrats!
Longtime Tonmo fan,

last couple pages went by quick... not sure if anyone mentioned this... including its photo....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4501839a7693.html

Top 3 ways Ob is credited:

3. Dutch biologist Olaf Blaauw (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4501839a7693.html)

2. Olaf Blaauw (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10506773)

1. Olaf Blaauw (Tonmo) (http://blog.tepapa.govt.nz/2008/04/29/whos-who/)

I was cheering for "Polymath Olaf Blaauw" or "Science Dilettante Olad Blaauw" or "Flying Dutchman Olaf Blaauw" or perhaps "Sushi Critic Olaf Blaauw."

Not that I'm bringing this up as intense envy of Olaf or anything :rolleyes:

I also found a great many sites that didn't get photos of the current processes, and just chose to use relatively random pictures, like Steve and Kat from 2003 (both with somewhat different hair!) but, most astoundingly:

Han Squiddo encased in carbonite (http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/ecology/1000-pound-colossal-squid-thawed-in-nz/1111)

Does Kat get anything for her 2003 pics being reused ad infinitum?

Does Kat get anything for her 2003 pics being reused ad infinitum?

Street cred? "Don't mess with her, I've seen her win a knife fight with a colossal squid, man!"

They could also have said "Dr. Steve O'Shea, Tonmo" and "Kat Bolstad, Tonmo".

So OLaf. having fun?

Olaf,

Can you have a quiet word in the teams ears and politely ask them to run these autopsies on a night shift instead please? The UK is exactly 12 hours difference to NZ and all the most interesting action is taking place in the dead of night for me. I'm missing it all!

(Just kidding of course).

I was thinking about you yesterday, Phil, and feeling really sorry for you! Too bad you can't record webcasts.

Does Kat get anything for her 2003 pics being reused ad infinitum?
She ought to get residuals, WK, and compliments for looking much the same today as she did in 2003. Steve, on the other hand, has gone through as many looks as Madonna, and uses his hair the way squid use chromatophores. That could be a good dissertation topic for someone.

Monty, I thought "Lucky [insert affectionate profanity here]" would capture Olaf's essence, but "Science Dilletante Olaf Blauuw" is much funnier.

The big Colossal has unfolded a bit overnight. I'm starting to truly appreciate Olaf's comment about the massiveness of the specimen. The brachial crown, the arms, tentacles and head, occupies a small portion of the squidcicle's volume; the rest of it is mantle and tail, and we're only seeing a fraction of it. It's pretty huge, huge enough for me to have some doubts that they'll be unfolding it today, as much of the squidcicle's center mass must still be frozen.

Clem

Say, since I see Olaf back online and active:

Were the retinas intact on the eyes of the smaller specimen? Are there plans to do histology on them, or other microscopy to estimate acuity? How about isolation of the rhodopsin and measurement of the spectral response? (And for that matter, I don't think that the frequency response of Architeuthis has been measured, either, AFAIK)

I've been pondering the theory that the red coloration of the chromatophores in large squids is because only a creature with huge eye apertures would be able to get enough red light to see a red object as anything other than black, so if Archie or Messie was in full red stealth-mode, it would be invisible to most predators and prey, but not to conspecifics...

On a related note, is it possible to determine what color the photophores glowed for squids in this condition? Any word on reflector geometry? I think this is well documented for smaller Cranchiids, right?

Lastly, obviously the brain and optic lobes haven't been examined or removed yet from the damaged specimen, although I think I saw the brain coming out of the Architeuthis yesterday... I'd love to see Mesonychoteuthis added to the list of squids with well-cataloged brain anatomy, either via histology in the J.Z. Young tradition, or via MRI or something if a non-invasive technique was desired: the head part of the damaged specimen would likely fit into a regular-human MRI machine without further dissection...

I've mentioned before that when I helped with some MRI microscopy 15 years or so ago, there was a software-based technique that could use an unmodified (at least of some brands) MRI machine to measure the diffusion direction at each voxel instead of just the material makeup. This has been used in some animals to measure the direction of nerve fibers without damaging the brain. It seems like this would be a fantastic thing to do with the head/crown piece of the smaller animal, and I can see if I can track down the people who know the details and have the software (I think it ran on a Bruker MRI controller connected to a GE MRI machine, but I could be remembering wrong... certainly, part of the control loop involved Bruker's software running on an SGI.

A more recent paper on the subject is:

Tyszka, J., Readhead, C., Bearer, E., Pautler, R. and Jacobs, R. (2006) "Statistical Diffusion Tensor Histology Reveals Regional Dysmyelination Effects in the Shiverer Mouse Mutant." Neuroimage 29(4): 1058-1065.

and I think the work more contemporary with me was:

Ahrens, E.T., Laidlaw, D.H., Readhead, C., Fraser, S.E., Jacobs, R.E. (1999) "Investigating White Matter Diffusion Anisotrophy Using the Dysmelinating Shiverer Mutant Mouse." Proceedings of the International Society for Magnetic Resonance in Medicine, Seventh Scientific Meeting, ISMRM, Berkeley, CA, p. 1210.

Of course, these were studies of myelin's importance, and since cephalopods don't use myelin in their nervous systems, it's not clear how if this would make it better or worse to study their brains with this method... my guess is better, because the larger-diameter axons would have a stronger diffusion signal, but that is just a guess.

Olaf,

Can you have a quiet word in the teams ears and politely ask them to run these autopsies on a night shift instead please? The UK is exactly 12 hours difference to NZ and all the most interesting action is taking place in the dead of night for me. I'm missing it all!

(Just kidding of course).

I made the comment in an IM to a friend yesterday at just about this time of day:

apparently, the Kiwi teuthologists don't appreciate their obligation to get up at 6am to keep me entertained...

Which brings to mind the question of why ob was online a few minutes ago: jetlagged, or just too excited to sleep? Or have they all been chatting 'till dawn in pubs and all-night diners, and are just getting to bed now?

We are getting up as we speak, will be in the lab again just past 7, we'll wave:)

Top 3 ways Ob is credited:

3. Dutch biologist Olaf Blaauw (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4501839a7693.html)

2. Olaf Blaauw (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10506773)

1. Olaf Blaauw (Tonmo) (http://blog.tepapa.govt.nz/2008/04/29/whos-who/)

I was cheering for "Polymath Olaf Blaauw" or "Science Dilettante Olad Blaauw" or "Flying Dutchman Olaf Blaauw" or perhaps "Sushi Critic Olaf Blaauw."

Not that I'm bringing this up as intense envy of Olaf or anything :rolleyes:

I also found a great many sites that didn't get photos of the current processes, and just chose to use relatively random pictures, like Steve and Kat from 2003 (both with somewhat different hair!) but, most astoundingly:

Han Squiddo encased in carbonite (http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/ecology/1000-pound-colossal-squid-thawed-in-nz/1111)

Talk about street cred, I have Meso for breakfast :wink: Mark Fenwick says hi to everyone! We're off...

Well, its 8:30pm over here in the UK and you guys are in full swing - even my 6 year old daughter is up watching! You can really see the big squid unfolding now....fantastic. Great work guys and gals!

Steve, put on a clean lab coat...

What I'm hearing sounds really interesting, however, there isn't any camera on whatever is going on. Frustrating!

oh, i thought it was my DSL acting up, i can't get picture either

I've been getting intermittent freezes and sound-loss for camera4 for a few minutes... I don't know if that's a problem on my end or the webcast...

I'm guessing that it isn't a problem with any of us, but something occurring over there. If I didn't have buried cable I would have guessed that it somehow relates to the high winds we're having, but that couldn't be the case.

last couple pages went by quick... not sure if anyone mentioned this... including its photo....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4501839a7693.html

8-) that is awesome.

3 of those 5 people met via TONMO.com!

8-) that is awesome.

3 of those 5 people met via TONMO.com!

Look at what our Tonmo god hath wrought! (Note the small g, Tony.)

Darn it, my boss gets to go watch some of it today and I can't even get the webcams to work :sad:

ps: So really thanks for anyone who slaps up some stills from the cams

That really is the pits! Even if there are some camera and sound issues, at least I'm getting something.

sorry. I'm having good luck with cams 1-3, but 4 (the one with audio) is very problematic...

Does it look like there is a portion of broken arm in the bottom of the tank?

Ambient noise sounds like a cocktail party!

Just after I posted that last remark the sound went completely out and hasn't come back. Any of the rest of you having the same experience

I've found the sound to be on-and-off for a few hours. I had to restart the viewer once, too ("connection reset by peer")

I thought I just heard them say "that's a perfect eye" as they were using the underwater camera a minute ago... yes, someone is confirming that on the audio.

I'd love to see more shots of the internals of the small specimen :ku: is working on, particularly the eye that's in someone's hand on the blog pics. I'm particularly curious about whether the eyes are stalked and what that anatomy is like, and the anatomy of the brain and optic lobes and their connection to the eyes. Of course, the photophores are of interest to me as well, as is the musculature of the arms and tentacles... perhaps I should just wait and ask a lot of questions post-facto when everyone is back online...

:shock::cyclops: the lens and eyelid on the underwater view look amazing, perfect, and other superlative things!!!

keep up the good work, folks! :madsci:

that beak looks like it could take your hand off! :shock:

that is a rather large eye.

I think it could take lots of things off! :shock:

Yeah, their servers must be struggling to keep up with the demand. Lots of folks must be hitting those cams with all the media attention.

Just for posterity:

what are the squids arms rapped in, it's like a plastic bag or somethin, whats it for?

what are the squids arms rapped in, it's like a plastic bag or somethin, whats it for?

The blog said those were to float the arms, because they're still partially frozen, so they're worried they might be brittle enough to snap under their own weight if they just flop down, or something like that.

They’re using bubble wrap and floating bags to stop the tentacles from breaking off as the partially thawed tissue is quite fragile.

from http://blog.tepapa.govt.nz/

which is the best place to get the details on what we're seeing, as far as I can tell.

Just for posterity:

As a note, the entire pigmented slab you are seeing is just the caudal fin structure... We're having lunch here right now and should be back up to finally thaw and lay out this beast. That eye was indeed a wonder to mine!

And Clem, I haven't forgotten the bet, I'd say 2,99 meters now :wink:

It's a Male!!!!! It's a Male!!!!!! It's a Male!!!!!

OB -- thanks so much for logging in and providing your updates live from the scene. We're all green.

It's male??? what did I miss???

about five minutes ago, steve was shouting up a storm about it being a male