Looks very Dosidian to me... I think the eye is quite characteristic?
The whole thing is very exciting... couldn't believe it when Steve sent through the first heads-up! Well done, Kubodera and Mori!!

:notworth:

Ok, a few questions that may not be too easy to answer, but nonetheless...

One of the tentacles was ripped from the body of the animal. What sort of force would be required to do this does one think? How solidly are the tentacles, and arms, attached? Would this ripping action have been caused by the sheer weight of the animal snagged and trying to pull away? Would this have been caused by the jig being lifted too quickly for the squid to disengage itself?

Hope that's not too many questions.

Phil,

We're thinking along similar lines. I also wondered if an exhausted, hooked Architeuthis might get desperate enough to bite through its own tentacle.

Many questions. Oh, my head.

Clem

AMAZING!!! :grin:

We're thinking along similar lines. I also wondered if an exhausted, hooked Architeuthis might get desperate enough to bite through its own tentacle.



Could be. As we know from Steve's and Kat's posts here, autophagy is not unknown amongst some squid.

Interesting idea.

will the end of the severed limb show some sort of "bite mark"?

Hello Chrono,

I think it would be hard to determine with any certainty exactly how the tentacle became detached from the squid's body, unless there were very obvious sgins of tearing at the break, or an exceptionally clean cut which might indicate autophagy, the squid biting itself. I was struck by the fact, noted in one of the news articles online (can't remember which one), that Drs Kubodera and Mori could not determine if the tentacle broke off at the attachment point or further down its length. The estimated length of the animal derived from the assumption that the recovered tentacle broke off close to the squid's body. If the tentacle broke further down the length of the appendage, it's possible the squid was longer than 26 ft.

One of the shots shows a reddish streak running diagonally across the image. Was the camera array fitted with a laser rangefinder?

Cheers,
Clem

Kubodera & Mori report that the squid made repeated attempts to swim away from the line, and during one of the attempts, the taut line suddenly slackened, which they interpret as the tentacle breaking. Out-of-frame of course. Autophagy/severing the tentacle by biting is a possibility, though not previously recorded specifically for Archi as far as I know. Some octopus (e.g. Ameloctopus (http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Ameloctopus%20litoralis)) have an autotomy plane or ready-made 'snap' point where the arms always break off (when they do). Seems likely, although I don't have a ref for this, that the squid that regularly lose their tentacles with maturity (e.g. Octopoteuthidae, and many onychoteuthids) would have something similar. That's not to say that Archi has it - doesn't lose the tentacles under normal circumstances - really just thinking aloud here. Hmmmm.

I keep thinking about the poor squid biting off it's own tentacle and then I wonder what the public would be thinking if a camera had recorded some marine mammal undergoing some similar trauma like a beaked whale getting its flipper caught. Oh well, just feeling sorry for the poor guy/girl struggling for 4+ hours.:cry:

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=050927&cat=news&st=newsd8ct0ofg0&src=ap

now i won't lie, i know nothing about squids. however, would an animal really wait four hours before biting its arm off? i mean, lizards will get caught and drop their tail immediately, but are animals really known for struggling for a long time and then doing that. could we assume that for four hours it was trying to eat and then saw a sperm whale? would it emit ink in defense before then?

hope somebody can help me out here.

I need a cigarette.

In the interests of public health, I had one for you Clem. Indeed, this is a most filthy and foul habit, and it is not cool!

(ps., I also had a scotch for you, Clem; I trust you don't mind)

Smoke 'em if you got 'em. Speaking of smoking, smoked salmon and honey-dill mustard on a bagel sounds good right now.

Hmm.... Well now, not very photogenic, these mega-teuthids...

John

The Scene at the office this morning: CapnNemo arrives an hour early for work to check up on the GS posts. Only two other people are in the room.

CapnNemo: Morning all!

Others: mumble

CapnNemo starts up computer, loads up TONMO, takes swig of tea as he opens a thread. The Pictures come up

CapnNemo: Spppppppppffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft !!!!!!!!!

Others: Why have you just spat tea over your desk? are you ok? etc

Everyone gathers round the PC. As a consequence, CapnNemo is busy for the next half hour sending links round the office to the giant and colossal squid fact sheet as word gets around.

Lots of people here frightened of the cephs, weird. Lots of concern about the torn off tentacle too. Can it still feed?

Also I see in the BBC Article, Dr SOS manages to speak about bottom trawling, nice one!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4288772.stm

I keep thinking about the poor squid biting off it's own tentacle and then I wonder what the public would be thinking if a camera had recorded some marine mammal undergoing some similar trauma like a beaked whale getting its flipper caught. Oh well, just feeling sorry for the poor guy/girl struggling for 4+ hours.:cry:

Yeah. I feel the same. Will it be able to hunt properly with just the one tentacle? I thought they sort of pressed them together when they shot them out.

Can they sex it from the tentacle do you think?

And hi, I haven't been here in a long time, but the news sent me galloping straight over! :D


Aw, I just realized my giant squid books are obosolete.

Kubodera and Mori's Proceedings of the Royal Society Press Release is now available on line. It requires a .pdf reader to open it.

First-ever observations of a live giant squid in the wild. (http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/proc_bio_content/pdf/RSPB20053158.pdf)

neat stuff! It seems that they've taken squid finshing to another level!

Yeah. I feel the same. Will it be able to hunt properly with just the one tentacle? I thought they sort of pressed them together when they shot them out.

Can they sex it from the tentacle do you think?

And hi, I haven't been here in a long time, but the news sent me galloping straight over! :D


Aw, I just realized my giant squid books are obosolete.

Same here. I've let my TONMO obsession lapse in the face of more pressing real-life business (a difficult sacrifice!), but once the Big News broke I ran straight here! :mrgreen: Major congrats to Kubodera and company, and mixed congrats/sympathies to Steve. :wink:

I think many people have done the same. Look at the homepage, there's a new record for most users online at once on the site.

I wonder if TIME Magazine will do something about it.

So, has the "videos" been released on the net yet? My parents tried to get me to the tv on time when this clip was on the news last night... but I arrived just as the newscaster was saying "and now, onto other news!" I'm hoping to "catch" it tonight!

Hello GPO87,

There is no video per se of the giant squid; the team used a digital still camera programmed to shoot one frame every time the attached strobe light fired. However, because the squid was snagged on the lure for over four hours, Kubodera and Mori were able to get over 500 shots. Reviewed at a fast clip, the sequence has a flip-book animation quality about it.

You can see a bit of what I'm talking about at the BBC Site (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4288772.stm). Click on the "Video" box for a short broadcast segment.

Cheers,
Clem

Congrats on your part of the article, Dr. Steve :wink:

I watched the BBC clip, and I am a little concerned about the whole "active swimmer, maneater angle"

I guess the journalist use the "he can tear you to pieces" angle to get people excited about the news. It seems like given mans basic weakness and slowness most animals (including most pet dogs) could tear you to pieces.

I am however more interested in the slow/ fast swimmer issue.

It has been suggested that the Giant Squid rather than beeing an active pursuit hunter preferrs to stand off and fire tentacles into schools of fish or other prey "sniper style".

In the BBC clip the person beeing interviews indicated that the pictures where evidence of an agressive pursuit style of hunting.
He fails to mention that the 1st thing that happenend was that the squid got its longest tentacle caught on the fishing line, and spent the rest of the pictures fighting for its life trying to free itself. The scientists eventually severed the tentacle and freed the squid. Given these facts it seems that the pictures show normal behavior but a squid in fighting for its life.
I think this is the same problem people had for years with sharks, they would chum the water throw in tons of dead fish and the sharks would go crazy because they never encountered this density of blood and dead fish in the "wild". This is how people though sharks regularly engaged in feeding frenzies and such.
I also saw a documentary on the Humbold squid, where one camera man used to go out with fishermen who where fishing the squid. He described the squid as vicious, they would eat each other and humans if they could catch them. Again these where squid in a life and death struggle, not engaged in "normal" day to day behavior.
In the same documentary some other divers went for a swin with the humbold squid while they where NOT getting massacred and they turned out to be much mellower, "friendlier" and more inquisitive.

I am amazed that scientist continue to fail to understabd how their observation methods affect the behavior of the things thei are studying.

Attach a squid to a steel hook it can't escape from and you will see a pissed off squid beeing active and fighting for its life. I don't think this provides much evidence in regards to "normal" behavior.

sorry for the rant

any comments?

Andreas

Attach a squid to a steel hook it can't escape from and you will see a pissed off squid beeing active and fighting for its life. I don't think this provides much evidence in regards to "normal" behavior.

I didn't want to say this myself, but it is a very good comment.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/27/AR2005092701573.html

The paper also had a picture of Steve and Kat with a 26ft. long squid caught in Antarctica. Unfortunately the same pic isn't on the web page.

I also saw a documentary on the Humbold squid, where one camera man used to go out with fishermen who where fishing the squid. He described the squid as vicious, they would eat each other and humans if they could catch them. Again these where squid in a life and death struggle, not engaged in "normal" day to day behavior.
In the same documentary some other divers went for a swin with the humbold squid while they where NOT getting massacred and they turned out to be much mellower, "friendlier" and more inquisitive.


That sounds like the "Killer Squid" special on the Discovery channel with Mike de Gruy.

I agree, they need to be careful about the conclusions they draw from this. But, it seems that when it comes to behavioral patterns in general, just about all conclusions that get drawn turn out to be wrong in some way or another.

Kubodera and Mori's Proceedings of the Royal Society Press Release is now available on line. It requires a .pdf reader to open it.

First-ever observations of a live giant squid in the wild. (http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/proc_bio_content/pdf/RSPB20053158.pdf)

Has anyone been able to get the "electronic appendix" referred to at the end of the article? The doi number seems to be wrong in the text (3102 refers to some other article), and when I substitute the doi number at the top of page 1 (3158), I get a "not found"...

Attach a squid to a steel hook it can't escape from and you will see a pissed off squid beeing active and fighting for its life. I don't think this provides much evidence in regards to "normal" behavior.

Observing 'normal' behavior is a problem with almost any footage taken of deep-sea creatures; in order to photograph anything down there, cumbersome supporting gear is required that tends to cause a lot of light disturbance, and often sound/vibrations as well. It is possible that, at least for deep-sea cephs and fish, the only behaviors we have ever observed on film have been threat-responses to the sudden appearance of a blinding, noisy camera apparatus, but this is what we have to settle for at the moment, until less obtrusive filming methods become more available (like the red light some scientists have recently used for filming).
But you're very right, Andreas, this is something that needs to be remembered when analyzing the behaviors caught on film, especially in an extremely stressful situation like this one.

This is more or less off-topic, but I noticed that the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_squid) on giant squid has the more rational claims for maximum size. It's also been updated with basic info on these recent Archi photos.

If one of y'all is responsible for keeping that information accurate and current, please accpt my thanks.

I didn't want to say this myself, but it is a very good comment.

Yeah I dig what you're saying, but I got the feeling from Dr Ku's paper from the Royal Society that the Squid wasn't foul-hooked, it actively tracked and took the bait, then pulled it into the arms, so that is some evidence of active hunting. Although this is only one creature, so it's difficult to state a case for all Architeuthis. Perhaps, contrary to Dr Steve's statement in the yahoo news report posted elsewhere, the race to film Archi in it's natural habitat is far from over, Is this series of photographs the springboard for more research and debate?

... is this series of photographs the springboard for more research and debate?

Indeed it is, based on series of discussions that I've had this morning. These things take time, like cheese and wine, so it will be a while before anything develops.

I propose building a one man submarine looks and acts just like an Architeusis. It would be equipped with a direct brain interface for manipulating the tentacles, chromatophores etc.
Then we just need a volunteer who is ready to join Squid society for the long term . :wink:
Steve ? Are you ready?

Andreas

Attach a squid to a steel hook it can't escape from and you will see a pissed off squid beeing active and fighting for its life. I don't think this provides much evidence in regards to "normal" behavior.
I didn't want to say this myself, but it is a very good comment.
Steve: Thanks for being online today, I imagine you must be getting a few calls. It's great having your insight as this news breaks.

I agree, great point above. Jumping a bit to conclusions -- I recall during your interviews on Mesonychoteuthis your suggestion was that Archi probably wasn't as aggressive as some people envisioned. Until someone can demonstrate differently with an Archi that is not impaled, I'll consider this matter inconclusive.

Messie, on the other hand...
:meso:

on daily planet today: gourmet cooking on mars, electric knives and GIANT SQUID!!!

okay, so i heard it on TONMO first, but i don't think it sunk in until i saw that report. hopefully, after i calm down a bit, i'll have something useful to say. i doubt it, though.

this is so cool!
:archi:

Until someone can demonstrate differently with an Archi that is not impaled, I'll consider this matter inconclusive.


Just give me a few years...

Don't know if it's been posted or not, but there's a video link here:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20050928-0807-science-squid-japan.html

Thanks for posting that; good news clip.

So, although some news articles were claiming there was video footage of archi, seems that's not the case. Just lots and lots of photos... (like 500+)... right?

from what I've gathered, it's just the 500+ pics, which if you flip it like a book, they MIGHT look like animation.

So, although some news articles were claiming there was video footage of archi, seems that's not the case. Just lots and lots of photos... (like 500+)... right?

The official Proceedings of the Royal Society press release (http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/proc_bio_content/pdf/RSPB20053158.pdf) by Drs Kubedera and Mori describes in detail the equipment used in obtaining the images. I'm afraid there is simply no video footage, and any report that states otherwise, is quite simply wrong.

In total over 550 images were obtained, all of which were 150kb .jpeg images. The camera was digital, suspended from a rope and pointed downwards and suspended abouve a mesh bag full of shrimps and a baited jig full of Japanese Common Squid. Using a strobe and timer, images were taken every 30 seconds and recorded the Architeuthis struggling for over four hours.

Using a strobe and timer, images were taken every 30 seconds and recorded the Architeuthis struggling for over four hours.
As many know I've never been hyper-sensitive to these things (I almost ate some tako sushi last week :smile: -- but didn't :indiffer:), but what is being heralded as a magnificient discovery is seeming more to me like animal torture.

If an extremely rare never-seen-alive gorilla or panda bear was caught in a trap, and videotaped for four hours in a struggle to get away, and finally got away by tearing off one of its limbs which was observed with great delight (the hand was still clutching!), the discovery would be met with mixed reviews at best, I would think. Just because Archi is submerged in water, should it be regarded any as less as one of earth's fellow creatures?

I do see your point Tony, very much so. I too was on the receiving end of messages like this when trawling for the juvenile giant squid ... killing everything in the process ... and I can understand where people were coming from. In fact this was a major turning point in my life - getting the squid on telly for the sake of getting it on film, or getting it on film and using this as a hook to lure people in to far more important matters, namely conservation.

Raising awareness of these magnificent animals through this sort of imagery does serve a purpose, even if the animal was stressed. People care when they see a magnificent animal in this condition, but not so about a trawl 'sheoparding up' the seabed and many fish. If this one animal lost a tentacle (that will regrow) and 1000 more are protected by some conservation lobby, then that is a necessary sacrifice. Ultimately conservation benefits.

Just the flip side, that's all. I sit somewhere in the middle.

Gotcha. That's very interesting and makes a lot of sense. Definitely helps my perspective on this as I wasn't much thinking of it from the positive awareness angle. I guess I still am concerned that it's being positioned as a violent / aggressive predator, when really it was impaled with a giant hook and fighting for its life.

But to THAT end, one of the news video clips posted here had an announcer claiming that it was an aggressive predator based on the way it first attacked the bait (prior to getting impaled) -- I'm unclear on what exactly transpired there as the Archi approached and seized the bait (was it very quick-moving and "violent")? If so, it would seem they have a point on that. I haven't yet read all the materials so am not sure if specifics on this have been offered...

Thanks again for the insight on conservation. Regardless of the concern above, it makes sense that this is ultimately a good thing for cephs. It's kinda like the "any press is good press" philosophy in Hollywood and American politics. :smile:

acutally, I was wondering if the lost of a tentacle would hamper the squid's ability to catch prey and feed...

Just FYI, I've had quite a number of similar-such messages these past few days; here's one, author removed ...
...............
Dear Mr. O'Shea,

With all of the excitement surrounding the recent filming of a giant squid, the most important factor remains that the squid was left undisturbed in its natural habitat. That, alone, is a major miracle, considering the history of arrogance and disregard humans have shown (sometimes under the guise of research) towards other species with whom we 'share' this magnificent planet... As it stands, we are in immediate danger of loosing it all, so the fact that no one is rushing to 'capture' the squid is a minor victory for nature.

I read in the news that you intend to catch juvenile squid to 'live' in captivity for the sake of your research. Please reconsider, as there certainly must be other options available. These extraordinary beings belong to the wild, not the laboratory. They have a right to their life, too. And their undisturbed life in the wild is intricately connected to our well-being. To the extent that we exploit that, we will destroy ourselves... Please find another way.

Sincerely,

If an extremely rare never-seen-alive gorilla or panda bear was caught in a trap... the discovery would be met with mixed reviews at best... Just because Archi is submerged in water, should it be regarded any as less as one of earth's fellow creatures?

Dudes,

YES! That is the exact level of small-mindedness which TONMO (THANKFULLY) is helping to alleviate. I agree with Tony wholeheartledly on that. It has a lot to do with my current concerns over science, conservation, and stuff like like Intelligent Design.

Honestly, we as humans have sat in judgement over the rest of the animal kingdom dispensing misery where we see fit. Often enough, where we see fit are animals so alien to our current vertebrate way of thinking that we could not possibly imagine that a cephalopod could or would feel pain.

Enough with the culturally relativistic vertebrate phallus waving!

And Steve, as the unofficial voice of large cephalopods everywhere, you have an unenviable task of being the target of a whole lot of dumb by a whole lot of "dumb-ians". Hopefully, people won't harass you as much, but give them this little shot of truth: The sad little spectacle of one Archi losing his arm will more likely than not benefit the entire ORDER of life by increasing interest in marine conservation. If those conservatiberal Demoblicans in Washington were too inept to believe in Giant Squid before, they do now. I hope they put that in their irony hooka and take a good long toke.

Ex Octopus, Sapientia

Sorry if I sould bitter.

John

I have to agree with the above, the negatives of studying these animals by this "trapping" method require consideration, although I'm not clear (even after reading the paper) on whether the hooks were intended to catch the animal or just be something to stick the bait onto.

But...correct me if I'm wrong...isn't that question trumped by some other considerations? Especially the quality of the science that's being done? As has been pointed out, this research (great as it is as an opening shot) can't even tell us for sure if the animal was an aggressive feeder, passive, or a sort of "sniper." Or, really, if it behaves differently when facing live and freely swimming prey vs. dead-stuck-on-a-hook-prey.

If the long-term goal is to study this animal's behavior, then won't we be switching to other experimental methods rather quickly? In particular, methods that are least likely to alter the animal's behavior? It would think such methods would also inherently do no, or minimal, harm to the animal, however harder they might be. Camping out at depth. Tagging them with cameras, if we can even find ways to accomplish that. Or feeding them RFID tags, if those could be tracked effectively.

Regarding the juvenile squid: Steve, did you ask the author of that letter if he/she had ever bathed? Does he/she live in a home located in what was once wilderness?

I have to agree with the above...
WOW, RRanton, now there is a blast from the past indeed! Where have you been? :grin: :welcome: back! Stick around this time, ay? :mrgreen:

now i won't lie, i know nothing about squids. however, would an animal really wait four hours before biting its arm off? i mean, lizards will get caught and drop their tail immediately, but are animals really known for struggling for a long time and then doing that. could we assume that for four hours it was trying to eat and then saw a sperm whale? would it emit ink in defense before then?

hope somebody can help me out here.

I can't say what any other squid would do, and I suspect this is kind of a first for everyone, but land mammals that are caught in traps will struggle a long time to try to free themselves. Biting it's arm (or leg) off is a last resort., and they will keep chewing and chewing on the limb that's caught until they are too close to death to have the strength to continue. I've seen it and it isn't pretty. :cry:

WOW, RRanton, now there is a blast from the past indeed! Where have you been? :grin: :welcome: back! Stick around this time, ay? :mrgreen:

Hi...thanks, thanks. :oops:

Well, I've been trying to finish my Master's, and since I was spending an AWFUL lot of my time on various "distractions" and not the degree, it wasn't getting done fast enough. So I stayed away for a while. :neutral: But the defense is done and I'm finishing up the comments for my conditional approval now, so this Archy news was a great excuse to come back out of hiding. Yup, I plan to stick around.

Hello,

Looking again at one of the published pics taken by Kubodera and Mori, it appears that the distal portion of the tentacle club has a small, roughly triangular keel on the back of it. Click here for the pic I'm referring to. (http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050926/squid_zoom3.html)

:?:

Clem

Ok, this is a link to another forum of some description I just found this morning. The whole thread is regarding deep sea pictures and both pages have some very cool cephs in them. Of particular interest is a post made by "Exo" about half way down the first page.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/printthread.php?t=19383
They're not living pictures, but I didn't quite know where else to put them. The first one looks like an Archie and the person almost looks like Kat too! The second one is of that guys who dives with Dosidicus is the Baja with a good sized specimen in his arms. No idea about the third one. The fourth is the classical Archie paralarva picture done by Steve. Here's where it gets kind of interesting: The fifth one looks about right for an Archie, but the fins look too small to me, too small and too round. Could this have just been damage done during its travel to the surface? The next picture is definitely not an Archie! I would say a Taningia given the fin shape/size and the apparent lack of tentacles. However the thing looks really big, too big. I think its just the angle at which the picture was taken. Also, the white coated scientist on the left looks like he's either removing the gladius, or peeling some skin off. The final picture in the post is the really old pic of what I think we've all agreed upon to be Messie. Does anyone know whether or not that thing was saved? It just looks like its such good shape that'd it'd be a waste to throw back over board. Sigh, oh well.

Anyways, I just though that it would be interesting to share all these crazy pictures with you. I'd love to hear some comments on what you guys think the other pictures belong to, ceph and non-ceph alike.

Cheers!

Have people seen this pic? It's probably old news...

http://www.leatherwoodonline.com/antarctica/2004/heard04/index.php

Haven't seen that pic until today, when I followed a link on that forum. Any idea what kind of squid it is?

Cheers!

Tough one, that identification, Jesse, Matt. All that can be said with any certainty is that the genus/family doesn't possess hooks (and you don't need to be a brain surgeon to determine that). There's just not enough information in that picture to determine the subject past 'squid' (although there doesn't appear to be a clear distinction between the head and mantle, and I'm left wondering if there is some degree of nuchal fushion .... which would narrow things down somewhat (probably an artefact of resolution)).

They managed to score a photo of a 'squid' taking a bait. Or maybe I'm missing something and the brain is dead .... coz I've had a horrible day/week (and it's Monday).

That's a fairly big squid, by the looks of it, mantle/head may indeed not seem to match Archi at first glance, but there are a lot of equally interesting species besides, I'd say. Interesting to see the same wrap around of grasping tentacles as noticed in our new owners' famous photograph of Phil avatar fame; teaches us something on hunting techniques.

Steve, wrt the suggested fusion of mantle and head above the eyes: if not the case, would Architeuthis have a bit of a pointy aspect as shown in some anatomical drawings of the species? I don't see it often in photographs of flacid washed up specimens, but I guess that's to be expected?

Is that a small fish on the line, the silvery shape cought up in the middle? If that's the bait, identification of the species would probably help judge ML et al.

Edit: I guess it's just the tentacle tip overturned, that gives off the impression of a fish: no visible suckers confused me....

The next picture is definitely not an Archie! I would say a Taningia given the fin shape/size and the apparent lack of tentacles. However the thing looks really big, too big. I think its just the angle at which the picture was taken. Also, the white coated scientist on the left looks like he's either removing the gladius, or peeling some skin off.

I think this is what you're looking for: http://www.livejournal.com/community/_octopus_/21471.html
Really have to start patch up my Russian....

wow! great pics.

I think this is what you're looking for: http://www.livejournal.com/community/_octopus_/21471.html
Really have to start patch up my Russian....
Courtesy babelfish.altavista.com:

Fishing vessel "Pena la deva" from Avilesa caught living of gigantic squid weighing 104 kg. this second largest copy, from those caught, until now, it fell into the fishing networks in 20 miles to northwest from Khikhona and it proved to be by the female of form "Taningia Danae". Enormous mollusk died after catching. The caused scientists transported it to the territory of research center "Cepesma" for the study. The largest copy of this form, found, until now, weighed 124,5 kg, and in the accomodations "Cepesma" are stored already 5 gigantic squids. The interesting article K.N. Of nesisa on the theme - "gigantic squid is number two". In the network it did not find; therefore I lay out completely. There is a gigantic peruano- Chilean squid of dozidikus (Dosidicus gigas), fleshy and tasty, it in large quantities they obtain in the eastern part of Pacific Ocean, from Mexico to Peru. The length of body to 100-120 cm and weight to 30-50 kg. is the larger deep water squids of the family of krankhiid(.Galiteutyuis - about it is further, Megalocranchia). The length of their bodies to y80-2"0sm; however, they narrow and thin and weigh a total of several kilograms. But here in the beginning of November 2000g. almost all world news agencies reported: there is "silver medal winner" - two-meter squid with the weight of almost 125 kg. It in the very end of October caught trawler in the Bay of Biscay, in 10 nautical miles from the coast of the Spanish province Of asturiya, in the thickness of water at the depth of 400-600 m, and it delivered into the small port Of luarka. Spanish zoologists A. Gonzalez, A. Guerra and F. rocha from the institute of sea studies in the whigs, after looking around and after measuring him, established: this Taningia danae. They politely reported to me the data about this finding. Not in a long time before the fact and soon after this catching the same trawler and in the same region caught two additional squids, but a little less. Taningii has uncommon history. First similar captured captain James Cook in his round-the-world floating aboard the ship "indevor". During March y"'9g. on the way from the cape of Horn to Tahiti the biologist of expedition J. benks (in the future - the founder of British royal society) noted the floated on the surface and fairly pecked by marine birds corpse of" cuttle ". They caught and marvelled: it is not already painfully similar to the customary European cuttles, feeler does not have any completely, on the hands instead of the suckers sharp hooks as the cat. And they welded! In the opinion of captain Cook, then there was "one of the best soups, that we when or tried". (to the contemporary taste this squid it is terrible - acid, in the mouth not to take, but in the time of long floating without svezhatinki you cease to be priveredlivym.) Alas, to England they swam and to science were reached entire the small piece of hand with the sharp hooks, the beak and the even some fine details (unfortunately, almost all this it perished with the bombing of London during World War II). On the basis of description contained into the diaries of expedition one scientist named the animal Sepia unguiculata (shaped-clawed cuttle); another, that studied to London remains, Enoploteuthis cookii (Cooks the armed squid); the third renamed it in Cucioteuthis unguiculata (kukosovyy shaped-clawed squid), after connecting Cook's surname with the Greek name of coconut, but no one could accurately say however, that it such. In 1931 French zoologist l. zhuben revealed in the collections of Danish scientific expedition on the vessel "it was given", that passed under the management of famous biological O. vedel'-Toning (aege Vedel-Taning, 1890-1958), small, is less than 4 cm, but wonderfully preserved kal'marchika, which was named Taningia danae (it they caught by network u about -vov green cape). But it it did not compare with The kukovym squid. And only into y9'"g. English specialist in the squids M. Clark studied whole series of the animals (length of body from 3 to 140 cm, weight from several grams to 60 kg and more), that were iz"yaty from the trawling catches and the stomachs whale, the obtained in Azore o-vov -vov, Madeira and South Africa, and it proved that Cucioteuthis unguiculata and Taningia danae - one and to totzhe form. Strange to the form squid. Thickset body (mantle) with enormous, into entire its length, fin, and its width still considerably more than length. Purple color mantle is also thick (to 6 cm), but is soft, polustudenistaya. Huge head and short thick hands. Feeler tiny and exist only in young (with length to 4-5 cm), whereas in adult from them it does not remain and track. On the hands on two rows of sharp hooks - it is more than hundred on each hand; hook is covered with skin hood and it can from it be put out as cat claw from the paw. Are formed hooks from the suckers, but also only in the youth, the adult individuals suckers already do not have. At the ends of the hands of the second pair (counting from the head) - on one photophore, organ of glow, which for size, form and color is similar to the lemon. These are the most bolshiye photophores in the animal peace: to 7.5 cm! The light-emitting surface of cream- white or vivid- lemon color is located on the inside of hand; from external sorony it is surrounded by the layer of the black opaque pigment, while it is lateral - by two black sinewy folds of the skin, by which kal'mmar can completely shut photophore as eyes with centuries. Opening and shutting photophore, squid emits bluish-green light signals, flashes, similar to the signal searchlight of warship. Besides those that on the hands, are another pair of photophores in the abdominal cavity, on the ink bag, but they small and are noticeable only in living squids. Largest taningii, caught by living, had a length of body 158-160 cm with the overall length of approximately 230 cm and the weight from 61- to 95-110 kg. one of these squids was caught by trawler at depth 260m in the north - to the West Atlantic, on the Djordjes- bank, to the east from USA it was coast: three of others they selected floating on the surface of sea south of Australia - possibly, cachalot belched them, and can, then there were the females, that swept aside eggs. It is whale on the beaks of taningiy, discovered in the stomachs, it is possible to assume that there are they and it is somewhat larger (body to 170 cm). Biscayan squid is inferior to them according to the sizes: its body 132 cm, overall length with the hands 203 cm. but the weight of 124.5 kg, undoubtedly, record! This to squid, it do not fall into the network, still you grow and grow - that there was female distant from polovozrelosti. The age of its 33 mo., which means, live taningii as the minimum three years, and can, and it is longer. This is considerably more in comparison with the gigantic squid №y (by arkhiteytisom); approximately so many live only gigantic (, in addition gigantic!) the North Pacific Ocean octopi, about which it will be described further. Taningiya - one of the very a few squids, raspostranennykh on entire world ocean, real cosmopolite. Judging by findings of its beaks in the stomachs it is whale, it is encountered in the Atlantic - from Iceland to south Georgiy, in Pacific Ocean - from the Bering Sea and the bay Alaska to the Subantarctic. Even if we assume that the beaks in the stomachs it is whale, caught in the distant north and the south, they belong to the squids, eaten by them in the temperate latitudes, nevertheless taningiya of raspostranena it is extremely wide. In its our waters they met to the southeast from south it smoked. Larvas and young of taningii dwell in the upper layers of water, from the surface to 200-250m; they are immersed more deeply in proportion to increase, and adult of kal'mary(at least mature females) live supposedly near the bottom on the continental slope, at the depth of 1000-1500 m. It floats taningiya in the horizontal position, is easy shevelya by fin. If enemy approaches, she emits the short (fraction of a second) flash of bright bluish-green light, dazzling and frightening away enemy. But the usual method of the glow of other - not very bright, but prolonged (several seconds), gradually damped glow. So taningiya it lures output - small fish and crustaceans, that are hunted the small luminous minute crustaceans. Main enemy of taningii - cachalot. By its flash of light not to frighten, especially because with the hunting it does not look at the output, but listens to the echo of its "depth finder reflected from it". But predators to pomel'che (but taningiyu they eat also shark, sword-fish, tunnies, alepizavry) can frighten. And do not forget about the claws and furthermore of taningiya and to bite it knows how! The male of taningii has the very dlinyy (to 73 cm) sovokupitel'nyy organ, capable of far being put out from the mantle cavity. Spermatofory are also longest, only in arkhiteytisa they a little more. Eggs small and very numerous - in their Biscayan female counted almost 5 million! They edge themselves in the form of enormous jelly-like laying. This "jelly" is separated by the pair of the special glands, which are stretched almost through entire abdominal cavity, their length to 82 cm. the size of the females of taningii with the ripening strongly is distinguished, some reach maturity with the size of by half maximum ("0-80sm), and here Spanish" gigantessa "was still unripe.

...and the rest:

Probably, they are multiplied only time in the life; clearing out eggs, female finishes its path in life. Judging by the frequent findings of the remainders of taningiy in the stomachs it is whale (sometimes - to 100 % being contained in them foods!), this squid in the world ocean is very numerous. Only in Azore about -vov cachalots, according to the estimation Of m. Clark, devour about 150 thousand t of taningiy per year! So that you be familiar - the mrs. Of taningiya, the "silver" record holder of Cephalopoda peace!

but in the time of long floating without svezhatinki you cease to be priveredlivym:

Svezhatinki.... Yeah, it's been a while, it gets lonely out at sea, awfully lonely, to you she's just a squid, to me, however.....

Excuse me, I hadn't arrive early, but just one questions:

1- Why are you so sure that, it is an Architeutis dux? In japan also exist another real big octopus, Morotheutis robusta. Can be the second one?

I think I may have found two images of a live giant squid that we have not seen before on a Japanese fishing website. Don't get too excited as the images are very small and it is hard to make out exactly what is going on. They appear to be dated 15th April 2004, and seem to show a very large squid feeding off bait squid on a line.

If anyone can speak Japanese on this site, perhaps it may be worth contacting the fishing site for better images. Volunteers most welcome.

Here's the link anyway: http://homepage1.nifty.com/ozok/daiouika3.htm

Have you seen these before Steve, Kat? I'm afraid the two thumbnails below are actual size and there are no larger versions to be found. Frustrating indeed.

They look very similar indeed to our mysterious blue-water Daiouika photo we found a couple of years ago. I wonder if they are from the same sequence?

Phil, great finds! More Japanese folks speak English than vice-versa, so I'd go ahead and write to the man. Those pics have to be of the squid you found way back when...there's another pic at Ozok's site that I hadn't seen before, it's really strange, either the squid is diving down and away, hiding the mantle, or it's broken in half! Link here. (http://homepage1.nifty.com/ozok/daiou-ika.htm)

Clem

those eyes are just unbelievable to me!

My sense is that those two areas that look like eyes are mantle openings separated by the nuchal fusion (head to mantle). Attached is an enlargement of one pic that Phil found, put through PixelNhance; you can see the mantle openings clearly, and the bulges on either side of the head (just above the arm corona) could be the eyes.

I hadn't seen these before - they also remind me of the photos of that mystery large squid in Tonga.

And there's these to consider, including Tisanoteuthis (?) my long lost "spent Moroteuthis" and an oarfish. Clem, where did you get those high res versions? I'll dig deeper into the site, I guess...

Hello Ob,

Where did you find those? I don't know the story behind your long-lost spent Moro, either. I once lost a favorite ball at the beach when I was young, and I never got over it. :razz: That last pic I posted was high-res only in the sense that I had enlarged and enhanced it with some software. Here's another enlarged one below, with the noise dialed way down and the yellows reduced (gave slightly better definition to the arms, head and mantle). There's a lot of dark, reddish matter in the water, and what looks like froth from the boat's engine; the last enlargement I posted showed visible damage to the squid's arms. Could this Archie have collided with the boat's prop?

Clem

I would say we're seeing tentacles as "a lot of dark reddish matter" in the above pic. The previous ones I posted (that's Thysanoteuthis, obviously...) are also from the same japanese site, just click on the arrows at the bottom, lots of T. rhombus, billfish and the occasional small oarfish.

The rusty red pic used to be on the previous incarnation of this page, in between the arrow squid and Architeuthis: it always intrigued me, showed a large mantle, large fin, tiny eyes squid that was apparently a spent female Moroteuthis. It disappeared from the site, for a while still showing the "broken" icon. I really wanted to see that picture once more to see how it would teach me anything on Meso's ocular appearance.

The high res pics I was referring to to you, are the ones you linked to earlier: I was simply curious whether there were any more high res versions of the big thumbnails.



A right treasuretrove this turns out to be!

those pics with what looks like eyes on top of the head really remind me of the kraken pic here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraken

I would say we're seeing tentacles as "a lot of dark reddish matter" in the above pic.
Eh, I've made some false ID's of photo details before, but I'm pretty sure I can tell the difference between blood/ink stained water and tentacles.:smile:

On the subject of old threads, did we ever get to the bottom of this is-it-or-isn't-it-Archie pic from Tonga in 2003?

I personally would know of no other squid of this appearance that would grow to such a size, and have it's arms chomped off by a cetacean :wink:

We never did conclusively identify this specimen, but it is most likely to be Architeuthis. It is certainly more like Architeuthis than the 'mystery phylum' is like Tremoctopus, although I think Clem (Adam) has done a truly marvelous job convincing me of the latter being Tremoctopus. The only alternative for the pic (above) is that it is some giant onychoteuthid, but this is unlikely (for geographic reasons).

As to Adam's earlier post, I'd say the colour is considerably enhanced (it looks quite unnatural). What the earlier pic is of, again, is most likely Architeuthis, but I say so on the assumption that it is large (the arm posturing looks fake, but then I haven't seen too many giant squid at the surface).

All three pics are of the same sequence, imo; the Architeuthis was lured to the surface whilst attacking a smaller squid used either as bait or previously hooked itself. The tell tale whitish ovoid seen in two out of three of the pictures lookes to me to be a phosphorescent squid jig. The alternative is that two Architeuthis of similar size and appearance where both "caught" under comparable circumstances, of course.

I don't see as much arm damage as Adam does, but then again, I also live under the silly impression that squid blood is copper based and therefore colourless with at best a blue hue when oxygenated :wink:

Where's my pencil

Where's my beermat

im not sure if this has been posted on here before but i think this is the video (http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/feature/data/squid.mov) from the Japanese expedition that caught the Architeuthis in December '06 (it's only about 8 seconds and the squid is quite quick)

:welcome: Archi,

This is the same people (Dr. Kubodera et al.), but a different species: it's Taningia danae, the "big fin flasher". Remarkable beast, eh?

thanks for clarifying that:grin: , i was a bit unsure

it didn't really seem like an architeuthis, because of the large fins

if anyone has some architeuthis photos id really like to see them, iv looked through a bit of the site but not really the guts of it. so basically if anyone has some architeuthis photos id really like to see them:grin: (i really find architeuthis fascinating!)

unlike my previous posts, im pretty sure that is the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIELef5R6nY&mode=related&search=) from Dr Kubodera's expedition off the Ogasawara Islands off Japan where they almost caught the Architeuthis before it unfortunately died. The video is pretty interesting, it shows that even the juvenile Architeuthis is quite powerful with its attempts to propel away.

Anyway I hope I was right this time.....

Enjoy!

Yep, that's the right video. Go :drk:

('Kunodera'?? :roll: )

i guess they cant spell..

that architeuthis is freakin gigantic. that kinda stuff is where sea monster stories come from