what is the ideal tank shape for cutlefish? I plan to have a 55-75g tank.... how many cuttles do people usually keep at once? and how difficult is getting a mated pair that will lay eggs? thanks!

Taller tanks are better. You can keep as many as you are comfortable with as long as you have the right kind of filteration to support them. Also, you do not want to overcrowd them but that should not be a problem because if they are overcrowded then you probably do not have a large enough filter to keep up with the high waste production. Your best bet for a pair is to get them from a hobbiest that has raised them. Also, if you get eggs you cannot be certain whether or not they will be fertile or not. Cuttlefish eggs have a low viability in captivity.

also try not to put two males together, as they'll fight if they want to mate with the same female. in a 55-75, youd want to stick to 3-5 cuttles with overfiltration and a highquality protein skimmer

I would imagine that apart from the water quality issues, overcrowding could very well lead to cannibalism, we don't get true cuttles here in NZ but I've seen this in midget octopus and Sepiolidae.

J

that in mind, get them while theyre young and introduce them to the tank at the same time. try to pick specimens of all the same size.

hmm, just curious... why are taller tanks better?(not arguing, would love a tall tank) and also how do you tell the sex of a cuttlefish and how would I make sure not to get more than one male?

The way I know of determining the sex, which I believe is the only way??? Is to put two cuttlefish in the same tank, separated by a clear divider, the one that reacts by turning black is probably a male, this does not work 100% of the time though. You make sure only to get one male by buying from a hobbiest :heee:.

also another question I have is...

can you have any corals or any other life in your tank with cuttles?

Cuttlefish are coral safe. They will eat fish, shrimp, and crabs (not hermits). Clams are not bothered but you will want to stay away from stinging LPS corals.

To determine the sex of cuttlefish - Multiple cuttles are generally required to accurately determine the sex of your cuttlefish. It can be done with just one, although it is harder and will require effort and patience. After reaching sexual maturity, male cuttlefish will 'display' a unique stance and pattern to show a female that they would like to mate or when fighting other males. In Sepia Bandensis this stance includes the cuttlefish fanning out its tentacles, turning a dark black/brown color with white spots or lines, and angling its mantle upwards (butt-up). If there are multiple males in the area, the other ones will most likely begin to display as well. They will often circle around each other displaying until one attacks the other. Typically, after the cuttle gets attacked it will either back down or, if it is feeling superior, it will bite back. Females will usually not react to this display or will simply swim away.

Taller tanks provide the cuttlefish more room to move up and down the tank more, and encourage swimming and exploring. Shallow tanks usually have less room to explore (more filled with rock/coral/etc.) and you will probably see the cuttle walking along the sand more than swim around. A long tank is not bad, but the cuttles seem to like the depth of a tall tank and IMO a tall tank encourages more activity.

Here is a picture of a male displaying:
http://www.tonmo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6308&d=1205728837

He is not in full display, but it is the only photo I have of it. The cuttle to the left of the male is female. Thales has some good pictures of a group of male cuttles with a female in the background.

In contrast, here are two males not displaying:
http://www.tonmo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6307&d=1205728837

HTH
-Nick

Actually, i have to disagree on the tank issue for cuttlefish. Their activity suits a wide and long tank rather than a tall tank... its all relevant to what species and what you can afford and fit in your house but, for example, my officinalis tank was 72" long, 30" wide and only 24" deep. There was also a shelf fitted in to the tank which was 48x15 and was about 6" above the substrate, again to increase surface area.
My bandensis tank was 28x24x 18 tall, so again wider.

Both species spend a lot of time on the bottom exploring that way as opposed to vertical travel.

Remember there is a lot of anecdotal info floating around out there that may or may not be true. Whenever I talk about ceph keeping in regards to behavior, I try to stay away from definite statements and instead use the word 'seems' a lot because we really don't know.
Ceph keeping is starting to hit the point where advice is going to get picked up and run with, so I think we should be very careful about it or we'll be fighting it for years. :grin:

btw how large do cuttles get? :sink: and will they turn into pretty much any color to blend in? :rainbow:

It depends what species, bandensis are 5 inches, officinales and pharoah cuttles get 18 inches. They will turn pretty much any color/texture, but wont always blend in because, although they have some of the most advanced eyes, they only see in black and white, so they change color based on intensity, I believe a good example of this is this pic by Thales of his baby cuttles, the different colored one is the same intensity as the mud, but a different color, the others managed to get it right though, so mabye Thales just dropped it on it's head :bonk:. :lol: JK

is there a way to get them to show interesting colors, or do they just do what they feel like doing lol...

They pretty much do what they feel like doing, You could try to get them to show an "interesting" coor by placing some different colored things in the tank.

They pretty much do what they feel like doing, You could try to get them to show an "interesting" coor by placing some different colored things in the tank.


IME, that doesn't really do much at all.

My Bandensis will go from white to a dark brown, and everything in between those two shades, but no reds, greens, or blues. Sometimes they will be a maroon color. Aside from the iridophores on their skirt, white/yellow/brown is pretty much all I get, aside from the occasional maroon. Other species are capable of different colors.

Letting them explore naturally without bothering them is the best way to get the most activity out of them, IME. Sticking stuff in front of them all the time and bugging them will make them want to hide more and increase their already-nocturnal activity.

okay so I want to start looking into tanks, where does everyone get their tanks? I really like how glasscages.com is set-up, you can customize your tank and see the price, but I have heard a few complaints of their tanks getting leaks?

I would either buy a used reef tank or a new tank from the LFS. Unless you need a custom size, there is no reason to get it from a premium vendor.

i thought vertical was for nautilus?

will a LFS make it "reef-ready"?

You should be able to buy one reef-ready. Some LFS's will drill a tank for you though.

When I said they prefer some height, I meant I wouldn't get something like a 33 L, that is very lacking in the height department. I think that the cuttle would be plenty comfortable in any tank with a decent water volume and some room to move around, but if you put them in a tank with little open space they will be less active and harder to find. Nautilus need a long tank so that they don't slam into the sides - which is the same reason they need a tank with some width to it as well. Height in an aquarium is really the least important for a Nautilus because in a shallow tank they do not have any greater risk of running into anything except for a pile of live rock. However, in the wild Nautilus endure incredible changes in depth during the night (when they 'surface'), and I'm sure they wouldn't mind having some room to make use of their gas chambers. A standard 75 gallon (48Lx18Wx20H) is the minimum tank recommendation for a Nautilus.

Let's not get off topic though :).

When I said they prefer some height, I meant I wouldn't get something like a 33 L, that is very lacking in the height department. I think that the cuttle would be plenty comfortable in any tank with a decent water volume and some room to move around, but if you put them in a tank with little open space they will be less active and harder to find. Nautilus need a long tank so that they don't slam into the sides - which is the same reason they need a tank with some width to it as well. Height in an aquarium is really the least important for a Nautilus because in a shallow tank they do not have any greater risk of running into anything except for a pile of live rock. However, in the wild Nautilus endure incredible changes in depth during the night (when they 'surface'), and I'm sure they wouldn't mind having some room to make use of their gas chambers. A standard 75 gallon (48Lx18Wx20H) is the minimum tank recommendation for a Nautilus.

Let's not get off topic though :).

I've read that it's been shown that nautilus actually does its daily migrations by jetting rather than by changing the gas pressure, and the gas/liquid balance can only be changed over a longer time, like weeks or months. But that's not a disagreement; if they're likely to jet vertically, that's even more reason for a taller tank.

With cuttles, it seems like they enjoy both the bottom of the tank and taking advantage of vertical space. The apparently do pretty well in large cylindrical tanks...

That's interesting Monty.

The thing I don't like about cylindrical or curved glass tanks is that taking good photographs is virtually impossible. I bet there is probably a piece of equipment you can get to make up for the distortion but I would rather not mess with it if it wasn't necessary.

what dimensions would you guys recommend for 75g tank if I plan to get cuttles and maybe after them try an octo...?

It also depends on the cuttle species, IMO, and we should be careful making generalizations. For instance, bandensis rarely get butt burn, I think I know of one case and that seemed to be from injury not striking the walls of the tank, so I don't think the round tank idea really needs to apply to them. In the wild, bandensis also seem to hug to the reef and hide in it, so the idea they 'need' open space may be off a bit as well. The idea that they 'like' a taller water column also came from the officinalis information.

FWIW the 4 nautilus at the Steinhart are in a tank that is taller than it is long, prolly 30 or 36 inches tall.

Okay so a basic 75g tank should be fine? another question.... I have heard that cuttlefish are technically reef safe towards corals, but I have heard that a lot of light can damage their eye sight?

no one really knows for sure, but from what I have read here on tonmo, cephs dont like bright light that much, so just to play it safe, if you are going to get corals, get ones that dont need any special lighting.

is PC lighting too much? I thought a ceph tank with zoas would be cool....

no one really knows for sure, but from what I have read here on tonmo, cephs dont like bright light that much, so just to play it safe, if you are going to get corals, get ones that dont need any special lighting.

Yep, that is the party line, but you cant really generalize all cephs, even more so than you can't generalize cuttles. It depends on species and where they come from. Any diurnal, warm water ceph should be able to take any light that is on wild reefs and our bulbs don't really come close to matching that.
In other words, its best to figure out the ceph you want, and build a tank, including lighting, for that animal. This really goes for any marine ornamental. This problem is people want to put everything in one tank, so they kindo look the other way at the whole issue.

well I've only heard of three types of cuttlefish and the only one that doesn't take a 200g+ tank seems to be the bandesis, so that is what I was planning on.... and I don't want to add anything that will harm the cuttle....

Excellent! We are at a step change in the size of the ceph keeping population and I am hopeful that we can quelch many of the easy answer quasi generalizations that have plagued the reefing community for the past 10 years. :grin:

lol okay

PCs will be fine. Cuttles can adapt to bright lights and will live with corals just fine. You will want to stay away from stinging LPS corals. A 75 will work for a group of Bandensis or a medium octopus.

does anyone keep SPS/clams with their cuttles? supposedly they are safe to keep together, but the problem is that cuttles can be too messy of eaters for the more sensitive corals/clams to handle?

Some people do. The problem will prolly be nitrates. If you can take care of that you should be fine.

well, I can always get PC lighting, get some zoas and see how it goes from there :)

alright very stupid question ahead so be prepared.....

I plan on calling my LFS one of these days to order a tank to get started.... anyway what should I exactly ask them I want done with the tank.....by this I mean like overflows and drilling or w/e it may be, I don't know too much about "reef-ready" tanks because I rushed into my reef and never actually set up a sump or refugium, which just makes it extra work for me to clean, but besides that yeah can anyone help me with this?

Tell them you want a tank with built-in overflows. You will probably have to have them drill a sump for you.

I plan to have my sump go skimmer-LR-pump, but how should I set up a refugium with that?

also some more questions....

My plan is to get the 3month old cuttles, how often do these guys need fed?

and.... where does everyone put their powerheads in the tank? I'd imagine cuttles could easily get sucked in?

well, I can always get PC lighting, get some zoas and see how it goes from there :)

I have kept Zoas, shrooms, and clams in a 30 gallon hex with a single bandensis on two seperate occasions and they have all been fine. The only problem is that I have a small metal halide, and the cuttle only comes out when only the LEDs are on, otherwise he hides in the rockwork due to the brightness.

ahhh cool thanks for info....

do cuttles eat bristleworms/starfish/urchins/hermits/snails or any other parts of the CuC?

No. They will eat crabs that aren't hermits, shrimp, and fish. All echinoderms are safe from the cuttles; you will need to worry about things like long-spine urchins poking the cuttles though.

okay, I don't plan on an urchin I was just curious because I like coralline algae and that would probably be most of the color+the zoas I'll have in the tank......

anyway where does everyone get their liverock, in my reef I have plain fiji and don't like it that much is there any other rock I can get with cool colors/shapes? and I was going to have the rock built up on both sides of the tank leaving the middle open, is this a good idea?

thanks for all the help!

can't believe I didn't ask this before, but instead of bombarding you guys with constant questions can anyone recommend a good ceph book that has good info on cuttlefish? thanks!

i just get regular fiji LR from my lfs. i don't think it matters.

There are no books out yet about cephs in captivity. There are however some with general information on different species.

Different localities of live rock have different coralline and can be different shapes. They will all have efficient amounts of bacteria and critters to properly cycle and maintain an aquarium.

I get mine from my LFS because you can pick out the pieces you want and you don't have to pay the lavish shipping charges. We have Tonga and Fiji, but in my tank all I have is Fiji.

oohhh bummer.... I read the articles and read some things online, but realy doesn't seem to be much on ceph captivity, and I hate relying on bugging you guys 24/7 for questions I have? any good sites you guys can recommend would be great...

and my LFS charges like 7$ per pound of fiji LR = /

Yes, live rock can be very expensive.

Often reef people sell some on craiglist for much cheaper. You can also use dead rock and use some live rock to seed it. The dead rock will become live eventually.

There are no books out yet about cephs in captivity.

It's coming though!!! Nancy & Colin (ceph care moderators) are writing one and I think it's due out soon (as in next few months or so)!!!! :grin: :notworth:

Coming this fall to your local bookstore:

Cephalopods: Octopuses and Cuttlefish in the Home Aquarium
By Colin Dunlop and Nancy King (Colin and Nancy on TONMO.com)

Published by TFH, around 230 pages, 120+ color photos