Well after five+ months of preparation, I just received (what I am told is) a tank-raised bimac from Marinedepotlive.com. It was active and curious the moment I took it out of the box for a look and was crawling around (and almost out of!) the bucket during most of the acclimation process. I had to nudge it back down the side a few times during acclimation and each time he would curl up a little and sit in one place for a few minutes, pouting. Already, it has a developing personality!

As I got a closer look at it, I noticed something of slight concern that I’m hoping you guys can alleviate. His left gill (correct term?) looks like it may be prolapsed. There is a tapered trunk-shaped tube that juts out about half an inch from the side of the gill, without anything like it on the other side. It looks as if it should be inside, maybe sucking in water. The tube is translucent and untextured and the tip opens and closes gently as it heaves in and out. Right now I have him in a critter keeper in the tank with a nice porous piece of live rock and a fiddler crab (which he has explored but not eaten). It is typical to leave an octo in the keeper for a couple days while it grows accustomed to you, yes?

Octopus Prime’s colors have varied between deep brown/patches of black and light beige/white (he is pale right now, curled against the side of the keeper). His mantle has a few horns, and there are a couple that pop up from his eyes as well every now and then. It’s very small, but larger than I expected from the pictures that were emailed to me by a lovely costumer service rep. That had been helping me for weeks; the mantle is about 1.5-2” with arms 5-6”. I don't see any false eyes, but it is clearly very young and i understand they may go unnoticed for some time.


I just hope I didn’t hurt it during one of the escape attempts. It looks more spooked now than it did during the acclimation! Let me know if you guys think I should do anything. Pics below coming in a few (uploading them now!)

:welcome: octopus prime!

it sounds like the thing you're concerned about is the octo's funnel (sometimes called the siphon)... it should be a stubby cylinder which it can move about. That's how it directs "exhaled" water for jet-propelled swimming and squirting at people... sorry if I'm being foolish and it's something besides the funnel, a picture would certainly help.

:welcome: octopus prime!

it sounds like the thing you're concerned about is the octo's funnel (sometimes called the siphon)... it should be a stubby cylinder which it can move about. That's how it directs "exhaled" water for jet-propelled swimming and squirting at people... sorry if I'm being foolish and it's something besides the funnel, a picture would certainly help.

I think you're right. i just noticed that there is in fact one on the other side as well. it was just tucked underneath before.

He's way more active now (just 10 minutes later) and is clearly trying to get out of the critter keeper! he keeps stick an arm throw the slots and the rushing over to the other side to try again. It's very cool to watch :grin: it's colors have returned to light biege/brown and occasionally flashes dark patterns that even seem to run along the suckers!

pics should be available shortly!

I think you're right. i just noticed that there is in fact one on the other side as well. it was just tucked underneath before.


there should only be one funnel, but the octo can move it to either side... there's a thread from a few months ago where we debated whether octos have a preference for keeping it on one side or the other, and the tentative thought was that it's usually pointed at the human watcher, possibly because that way if the octo decides there's a threat it can jet water (and maybe ink) at the human and jet away in the other direction.

there should only be one funnel, but the octo can move it to either side... there's a thread from a few months ago where we debated whether octos have a preference for keeping it on one side or the other, and the tentative thought was that it's usually pointed at the human watcher, possibly because that way if the octo decides there's a threat it can jet water (and maybe ink) at the human and jet away in the other direction.

ahh i can see what you mean. when i saw the siphon on the other side i assumed that the "other" one was now tucked under on the other side. everything looks normal and healthy. he's been bouncing around the critter keeper nonstop!

:welcome::octopus2: prime.

first batch of photos is updated! there are already more on the way. He already looks more comfortable now than in these photos from the first hour. I feel like a new parent!!

unwrapping ceremony; he came packaged very nicely with a couple heat packs from marinedepotlive.com
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2292/2230652875_5e49a950c9_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2046/2230654887_9413c8ce47_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2410/2231452600_b232b872ac_b.jpg

temp. acclimating:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2137/2231488944_0650460bb8_b.jpg

i love the eye horns
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2275/2231517244_5d050cdd32_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2254/2231533266_900f917f4a_b.jpg

His colors have become much more vibrant since then and he has been swimming excitedly around the critter keeper for hours now (seems to be in love with the brittle star in the tank.

He readily accepted a piece of thawed frozen shrimp and at some point must have eaten the hermit crab while i wasn't watching ^_^ looks like feeding will be a cinch. should i still order a lot of fiddlers?

Welcome to your new octopus. Looks and sounds like a fun one! :) Those are some interesting looking "horns". Love that look.

You definitely want to keep a stock of live foods on hand. Really their primary diet should be live foods that have been fed quality foods so that the octopus can get the most out of its meals.

The little horns looks awesome, i've never seen that on a bimac.

some more photos:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2266/2230913455_aebdf87d58_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2326/2231711504_f75d267431_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2265/2230921303_c42e7688d5_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2133/2230996565_1ce15d9c4b_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2414/2231000435_08855fd7ea_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2229/2231798916_311cffd8b7_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2049/2231008109_ab5bd73e18_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2325/2231012071_b8d494c481_b.jpg

...Just a few more to get online and my image flood will be over for the night. Hey it's my thread and this thing is like a new child. i can't stop!

What do you guys think; is it a bimac for sure? can you make a call on the gender? i know it has something to do with the lengths of specific arms. Those horns remind me of Pai Mei, the chinese kung fu teacher from kill bill 2

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0378194/kil_bill_2_1.jpg

If i hadnt decided on the homage to Transformers 4 months ago, i'd be tempted to reconsider. BTW, i decided to call the 4 remaining hermits The Decepticrabs

it got this really bizarre split-hemisphere mantle coloration while picking apart the shrimp. anyone seen this before?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2354/2231809536_2f377583c5_b.jpg

new roomies checking eachother out:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2133/2231019505_6b9d3a3d21_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2164/2231023269_7138a3aa05_b.jpg

dark:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2147/2231821608_facceeacc3_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2166/2231031283_3943f08c02_b.jpg

Hmmm, I'm leaning toward aculeatus.

It looks alot like my little guy achilles.

Definitely not a bimac. I wouldn't be worried about the split-coloration, I've seen my octo and cuttles do that.

What an adorable new "child" you have. I can totally understand how you feel like a parent. I'm new here and just beginning to learn so that one day I can get an octo. I'm going to be the same way... so proud of my new baby. S/he is beautiful and I absolutely love the "horns"... so adorable, so much personality.

damn! they swore up and down this was a bimac, but now that you mention it, the original picture that was provided to me looks WAY smaller than this guy. i thought it was just poot photo quality, but maybe the guys at the warehouse just threw whatever in the bag rather than what was specified. The packing invoice just says "tank bred octopus: west america." whereas the order said "Bimaculoides."

I'll be happy as long as it's not a full-grown dwarf that's about to die! here is the picture the tech support person sent me.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2174/2232171206_68424916c3_o.jpg

it looks smaller than part of the index finger she threw in for reference, but of course it's hard to make out the detail and perspective. but she told me there were 2 tank raised bimacs there about the same size. Hmmmm. ill make a thread in ID requests. Can anyone tell me how to change the thread title?

Nope, not a bimac, but still a nice octopus! Keep this octopus at tropical temperatures, around 78 degrees.

Nancy

yeah i don't think the one in the pic they sent you is the same octo... the one in the pic they sent you looks about the size i got rigby (tank raised bimac).... but he does look like an aculeatus to me... like Lucky... you can see more pics in the marketplace form under octo in need of rescueing....

aculeatus is a dwarf species right? is this guy a full-blown adult then?

yea looks like A. Aculeatus to me. No theyre not a dwarf species, so you dont have to worry about that. They are very interesting octopuses with great texture and color changes, so even if it is not a bimac like you wanted you should still feel very lucky that you got A. Aculeatus.:grin:

yeah! i have been checking out the other threads on A.Aculeatus. Octopus Prime really fits the bill! it looks just like him/her in the pics from other threads, so I think i agree. A.Aculeatus it is! an occasionally bipedal (?), diurnal (?), very playful little octopus. I'm very happy with it :)

I am now just trying to discern the gender. i havent noticed whether there are any enlarged suckers but i will look out for them tomorrow. the front-most arms are definitely shorter than the rear and there seemed to be a ridge along the arm that stuck out to me a couple times. i'm not sure what else to look for, but am relatively content to call it a "he" like the famous robotic namesake

can anyone show me how to change the thread name (or change it for me)? earlier today i thought this guy was a bimac. I'd like to keep positing to this journal without decieving people! :)

I'm not sure if non-moderators are allowed to do it... I'll change "bimac" to "aculeatus(?)" for now, let me know if there's something you'd like better...

edit: done.

The packing invoice just says "tank bred octopus: west america." whereas the order said "Bimaculoides."


This is seriously false advertising to claim it's tank bred. I know people that would not consider buying a wild-caught animal, which is what they shipped (looks like you got a nice healthy aculeatus). Be sure to write them and blow the whistle.

Aculeatus is not a dwarf species but it is a small species... the mantle length is 6cm... Lucky is large and has a mantle about 3 inches..... if you look at lucky's pics then you can DEFINATELY see the large suckers you can look for... Lucky was very cool indeed... i now don't know after rigby if i want an aculeatus or birarus....

can aculeatus be tank raised... or are they a small egg species... if they can then Mikewise if your little kid is a girl and broods viable eggs and they survive.... I am first in line for one ... :) ;) :P ... gezz that is a lot of if's.... lol

Octopus Prime and the Decepticrabs......lol nice

your octo is awesome....u are very lucky too have him/her

Aculeatus is not a dwarf species but it is a small species... the mantle length is 6cm... Lucky is large and has a mantle about 3 inches..... if you look at lucky's pics then you can DEFINATELY see the large suckers you can look for... Lucky was very cool indeed... i now don't know after rigby if i want an aculeatus or birarus....

can aculeatus be tank raised... or are they a small egg species... if they can then Mikewise if your little kid is a girl and broods viable eggs and they survive.... I am first in line for one ... :) ;) :P ... gezz that is a lot of if's.... lol

Nope, small babies. I've posted a thread somewhere around here with a link to another thread with pics of the babies.

cool! thanks to everyone for the information. I havent found any conclusive answers on the diurnal/nocturnal question yet, but time will tell. It was active all day yesterday, and seemed to be active last night. today it has slept all day.

Still havent determined whether there are enlarged suckers. I will reference the pictures from the "needs rescuing" thread to try and figure it out next time OP is active!

sorry forgot to type that.... diurnal

All is going well with Octopus Prime. I am beginning to think it is female as i haven't observed any of the enlarged suckers that are apparent in Aculeatus pictures in other threads.S/he has been building a den in the caves on the left side of the tank. it is really fascinating to watch how s/he wedges rocks into place and sculpts the sand so it's just right around the entrance. OP has been eating mainly small pieces of thawed raw shrimp from the supermarket, but seems to be getting bored of it; s/he often will push it away if not interested. There are also hermit crabs and snails in the tank to snack on in the meantime, but in 5 days s/he has only eaten one of the 5 crabs that scavenge the rockwork. I have a lot of fiddler crabs coming from theaquaculturestore.com that should be arriving soon.

Here are some more photos shot today:

Observing from his/her favorite outpost, on top of the Den:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2039/2242644898_4d71422f86.jpg

and a few shots of exploring the tank. Note lack of enlarged suckers (?)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2245/2241850483_5c771b0ec1.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2420/2242638386_1aa952c19f.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2025/2242637008_0c42f34e57.jpg

nibbling on a piece of shrimp:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2401/2241848931_e1a999a860.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2087/2241847171_372a48a339.jpg

The curly-q legs reminded me of people mentioning "corkscrew" behavior associated with malities, but i am imagining that looks somewhat different (?). OP has been fairly active, explorative, and accepting of food so I am not too concerned about senescence.

I also noticed that one of his/her front legs is significantly shorter than the corresponding other front leg, by an inch or so.

Great pictures!

thank you!

OP is still doing well. I seem to be slowly earning Prime's trust; as his tendency to turn dark and hide when i come near is diminishing day by day. I have been giving him a piece of (raw, frozen, thawed) shrimp about half the size of his mantle each day, but he doesnt seem to eat much of it; jettisoning it after about 15 minutes of nibbling, about 80% intact, which i then remove. As of now he still has only eaten one of the five hermit crabs. The fiddler crabs will be arriving tomorrow and hopefully they will be of interest (and small enough to chow on). otherwise i'll try to order some baby clams. any other suggestions for live food if fiddlers dont work out?

I was also wondering if anyone could suggest "play" type activities that prove to be engaging to smaller octopuses. I tried playing with the magnetic glass cleaner in front of him while he was out exploring the tank outskirts. it seemed to interest him but he was very cautious. What games do you guys like to play with your smaller, non-bimac octopuses?

Tug-o-war.

oy, he really doesn't seem interested in/able to eat the hermit crabs. I just tried placing a snail upside down outside his den, no reaction. then i grabbed a hermit crab and placed it upside down near his den, but he was more interested in feeling my finger. Finally i tried one more (a slightly smaller crab) which he grabbed and wrapped himself around, but dropped without having extracted the crab.

Is it possible that the hermit crab defenses are really that effective or is he just not interested in eating them? should i keep pushing live food or stick to what works (frozen shrimp)?

here's a picture of him decidedly NOT devouring a very vulnerable crab. look closely and you can see him watching quietly on the left as the crab struggles to right itself:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2046/2247168376_a5e98b9f37_b.jpg

at any rate, fiddler crabs will be offered soon.

My advice would be to offer what works, but also try various other types of food, so you're not stuck with only one type. Mostly likely he'll go for fiddlers.

I never had too much luck with my bimac. For a whle she liked fresh scallops as well as shrimp (frozen and fresh) and crabs. One day she didn't like scallops anymore. She never liked any kind of fish and despite my very great efforts to procure a piece of freshly killed, unfrozen and uncooked lobster, she didn't like it.

However, there was one octopus described in this forum that preferred frozen shrimp and only frozen shrimp. So you never know.

Nancy

i got my package of fiddler a couple hours ago and offered one to octopus prime. he happily accepted it once he felt it with his arm and has been chomping away for the last 15-20 minutes :D

There must be something about the "taste" of the outer shell of fiddlers that octopuses find appealing. Octane would not have been likely to have ever seen a fiddler but would have been exposed to mithrax. Given the choice, she preferrs the fiddlers. Shrimp, however, are turning out to be a big favorite.

Yes it has been interesting to observe the taste-by-touch phenomenon. i have noticed that octopus prime seems pretty disinterested in most things until laying a few suckers on it (or until i place it in an arm) at which point s/he tends to decide it's close enough to food and take it under, or decide it's just the latest annoying gesture by the pet human, Mike,, and push it away.

Yesterday, for the first fiddler crab feeding, i held it out near him/her but there were no signs of interest until i touched it to an arm. then the crab was excitedly eaten. during today's feeding, i was planning on doing the same thing but i accidentally dropped the crab. The moment octopus prime saw it scurry towards it, s/he seemed to know it was a meal and pounced on it when there was an openning, trapping it under it's net.

Perhaps the there are characteristic "scurrying" movements that can trigger the hunting/feeding behavior, and otherwise octo.s rely on taste/touch

One of the interesting things about ceph nervous systems being more "spread out" than us mere vertebrates is that the arms actually show pretty sophisticated behaviors... severed arms (sad, but at least they grow back) will, on their own, grab things with the suckers, and if they're food pass them toward the mouth, and otherwise pass them away... so the brain may do more handling of "coordinating" the arms, but the arms are more autonomous. The brain handles decision making, initiating actions like strikes or flight, processing vision and running the camouflage, but the arms actually do the "tasting" and a lot of the muscle control and coordination on their own. I'm sure "scurrying" draws octos attention, but they will also strike at outline pictures of crabs, so they can certainly recognize the shape as well.

I'm sure "scurrying" draws octos attention, but they will also strike at outline pictures of crabs, so they can certainly recognize the shape as well.

Fascinating! yeah i remember reading that those arms are chock full of ganglion cells. the decentralized nervous system idea is really amazing, witha central brain issuing more global commands. really cool stuff. any suggested reading?

They certainly do recognize the outline of a crab - just old one up outside the tank and watch the excitement!

Nancy

Fascinating! yeah i remember reading that those arms are chock full of ganglion cells. the decentralized nervous system idea is really amazing, witha central brain issuing more global commands. really cool stuff. any suggested reading?

I learned a lot of that from a book by Wells just called Octopus, which is out of print, but very common in university libraries.

Hanlon & Messenger's Cephalopod Behavior is good in general, but I don't remember how much it says about the arms in particular.

Nixon & Young's book The Brains and Lives of Cephalopods is more about the anatomy of the central nervous system, and is really expensive, but it's got a lot of intriguing details mentioned in passing.

It looks like it'd be in the O. horridus species complex (judging by Cephalopods A World Guide, Mark Norman) He looks like an amazing octopus, and the colors seem great.

oh my goodness, a new prediction? O. horridus... i will check the boards for information on that "species complex" ...it's a new one to me!

here's a picture of us holding hands :)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2201/2263401634_9285782b28_b.jpg

interesting... come closer...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2022/2263399542_a80d10b898_b.jpg

this week i started noticing some reddish/orange rust colored patches mixed into his camo patterns, possibly due to the improved diet? (i.e. switching from frozen shrimp to fiddler crabs). either way, Octopus Prime has gotten more and more active/curious/confident. he spends about half the day exploring the tank walls and the other half resting on/in his den. As you can see he expresses great interest in my fingers. sometimes more interest than in the food theyre holding *gulp*. i'm just not letting him get them anywhere near his beak!

I think i will start feeding every other day. on the every-day schedule, OP does not show interest in taking the crabs from my hands nor hunting them as they scurry around him, but will kill and eat them if i touch them to one of his arms. i tried skipping a day and then dropping a crab in the tank. It scurried right into the entrance of Prime's den! he perched on the opposite side of the rock and extracted the crab from the cave by wrapping his arms around the side and pulling it out. he seemed much more excited about the meal not having had one the previous day. is this advisable?

I checked out daddysquoc's thread on a suspected o.horridus and some of the camo patterns on the mantle that dont change match octopus primes. specifically there are two symmetrical blotches on the top of the mantle close to the top behind the eyes. hmm i guess we're still trying to get an ID!

:)

nice friendly octo you have there :)

keep up the good work!

You've been touched by his noodly appendage!

hahaha i love my pet FSM

I shot some pictures yesterday of OP perched, eating a fiddler
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2127/2276880164_0d832c41d7_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2018/2276089631_b84ede1131_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2246/2276090449_b5f6560610_b.jpg

leftovers:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2110/2276883760_ce631182fd_b.jpg

Octopus Prime used to jettison the leftover crab shell when he was done eating, but i think he has learned from observing me clean up after him. now he leaves them in a neat pile at the top of the rockwork. occasionally he will drop the larger pieces from the carapace into a cave where i can't reach them and leave the smaller pieces in a more accessable spot. Perhaps so he can use the big shell pieces for den construction!

another interesting eating observation: his favorite perch for meals has become a ledge directly in front of the koralia 1 powerhead. i didn't understand the significance of this at first but it looks like he actually uses the stream of water to blow some of the unwanted crab innards (usually he discards these red branch-looking pieces before continuing to eat) away from his den and into the middle of the tank where i can easily net them.

The "red branch pieces" may be the gills.

The "red branch pieces" may be the gills.

cool.

just a quick behavioral observation/update:

I have not seen any "walking" behavior as documented in the laboratory setting with a.aculeatus, but Octopus Prime will often "stand" on two arms while clinging to the glass with his other arms. In fact several of his common poses involve one, several or all of his arms straight out in front of him.

Another interesting thing he does, usually while eating, is cleaning out his mantle using an arm! i dont know if this is common in many species but i often see Octopus prime stick one arm up into his mantle and it will come out of one of his gills! this strikes me as the equivalent of a human sticking a hand into its mouth to clean out the sinus, perhaps wiggling a finger out of the ear. I was so amazed the first time i saw it!

I have seen Rigby do that.... It is really weird...

I have not seen Octane or the Mercs do anything like that and I am no sure I want to :yuck:

Sometimes I wish I could.:shamrock_t::octopus2:

i borrowed a friend's dSLR and a really nice macro lens to get some higher quality photos of Octopus Prime. enjoy!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3090/2350145903_eb1f0e7e24_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2114/2350145813_073e72d239_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2274/2350094929_46d76a18c3_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2338/2350928436_5ed462205f_b.jpg

the last two pictures are awesome!

just a quick behavioral observation/update:
In fact several of his common poses involve one, several or all of his arms straight out in front of him.


Does she ever do this?

Does she ever do this?

yes! well s/he was sort of swimming but with the front two arms up and somewhat curled. i remember being reminded of videos i've seen of cuttlefish before striking prey...

but i have only seen it once or twice. in fact the first time was a couple weeks ago while s/he was going for a crab, and it only lasted a second or two.

why do you ask, mucktopus?

Curiosity- Roy and I are currently writing a paper on this behavior in the wild. I can't go into the details of it now, but it' has a couple of interesting possible uses.

well i now keep a tripod set up by the tank so i'll be on the look out and grab photos if i can!

a few updates--

I have been very concerned about octopus prime this week. he seems to be out of his den for more of the day than usual, yet spends most of that time in one or two favorite spots on the glass, with his arms curled up looking a little pale. He still does flash and change colors regularly in response to activity occuring near him, but he just doesn seem like his normal "constantly exploring self," and i realize that these are early signs of the end of his life.

I put a fiddler crab in a few days ago (he usually eats 1, sometimes 2 a day) and another one in yesterday, seeing no trace of the first. But now i see that neither have been eaten. Octopus prime is currently curled up very small on a rock on side of the tank opposite his den, sleeping. very disconcerting.

On an unrelated note, i put in 25 mysid shrimp i had ordered from aquaculturestore as a treat a couple weeks ago. He vorciously ate 6-10 of them right away and gradually seemed to lose interest. in the subsequent days he would take occasional swats at them but not try too hard to catch any. Now there are still a few swimming around, occasionally bumping right into him! For a while he was clearly only interested in the fiddler crabs, but as i said, now he seems to have very low appetite all together

I know OP's gender has been up in the air, but this kind of non-nesting behavior would rule out a senescing female, correct?

I do realize that water quality may also be an issue, especially if a few shrimp have died and decayed. Also, lending to the water quality theory, last week I awoke and saw that he had inked (probably in response to me violently swatting the alarm clock!).

i had never seen him ink before, but i netted it right away and changed 20% of the water volume later that day.

any speculations are more than welcome

here is a picture of him, relatively normal last week:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3025/2459252373_990d91c311.jpg

and one of him today, hiding in a rock, looking pale and asleep, yet far from his own den...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2069/2464378605_fec3888e4d_b.jpg

update: later today he ate a crab and acted normal for the rest of the afternoon :)

Glad to hear it!

I have been seeing similar actions with Octane (Hummelincki - also showing a drab gray that is not normal) and am also worried. I have found that changing out double his normal water change seems to perk him up (always 0's on ammonia and nitrite but nitrate is a constant battle) and he goes back to acting normally. I suspect he may be over eating sometimes and his age shows the effects of this indulgence (i.e. probably is the beginning of sesenence but not necessarily impending death). Please update a bit more often so that we might parallel the behavior.

Thanks,

i definitely will try to update more frequently. finals and trying to graduate have sucked up most of my free time, but thankfully all that is coming to a close :)

just thought i'd throw up some pictures of how my food orders come from aquaculturestore.com.. long live paul sachs!

octofood 1: fiddler crabs
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2276/2467180720_a6b3e51b41_b.jpg

octofood 2: mysid shrimp
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2223/2467180436_94fba452c8_b.jpg

i am getting more certain that OP is a male. i was watching the video on Roy and Christine's work and i definitely notice a lot of skunk-stripe moments, as well as a constantly curled 3rd right arm.

When I saw Octopus Prime's name, I couldn't stop laughing for two whole minutes :lol: Thats a good one, very creative. He has really nice coloration. How big is he so far?

Nice pics of food! How large are the mysids? I've ordered shore shrimp from him, at about an inch each. Good octo food and catching them provides enrichment.

Nancy

the mysids are all between around 1/2" and 1" i put all 25 in at once and though he was initially very excited and grabbed as many as possible, he seems to have stopped eating them (they occasionally bump right into his head, and he just shoos them away). i can count 6 right now just glancing at the tank.

octopus prime continues to act unusually. He spends a lot of time curled up as small as possible on the glass (currently in a place ive never seen him hanging out before).

he's eating maybe one fiddler crab every other day, and there always seems to be one out crawling near him, not to mention the mysid shrimp that are still frolicking about.

lethargy aside, he seems more tense and iratable than usual too, and the curled 3rd arm has been very prominent. today he inked at me again when i entered the room. that's twice now within 2 weeks, it having -never- happened until now. this time the ink was less viscous and it dissolved very quickly. i will consider doing a water change later tonight in lieu of that.

poor guy doesnt seem well. im sticking to my water changes (doing 20% each week rather than 10%) and hoping for the best.

not looking good:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3213/2483743387_628babfdf6.jpg

iratable:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2168/2484594822_d247155fd8_b.jpg

How big is Octopus Prime? He looks pretty small in the pictures. Just throwing this out there but is it possible he's just bored with nothing new to explore. My aculeatus was very curious and loved exploring everything. Try giving him something new it couldn't hurt and just might help.8-)

When Octane has acted strangely, I immediately do a 5 gallon water change, no questions asked (then do my normal one on the weekend). His water has never shown detectable ammonia or nitrites. It could be temperature or O2 (I should NOT have a problem with O2 with all the sump exposure and his odd behaviors are not at any specific intervals) but I notice a back to normal posturing every time. I cant' give a solid reason for the difference (it could be something as simple as over eating and the water change has no effect). I have done this with the Mercs as well (almost never needed with them however). My nitrates do run between 20 and 30 ppm but don't drop with the extra 5 gallon wc.

"Try giving him something new it couldn't hurt and just might help."

It is possible that just the extra attention snaps him out of his "funk"

Octopus Prime seems to have returned to normal since i started a slightly more vigorous water changing regimen, with the exception of some general changes in his behavior overall. I am thinking that this may just coincide with his reaching full maturity.

I have also been trying give him more intellectual stimulation. He is not really interested in toys or objects i place near him, but he almost always enjoys a few fingers to explore or his old feeding stick to hold onto. Usually if he is looking gloomy, i will offer him one of those things to interact with, and by the time he loses interest, he seems back to his old explorative self.

The hectocotilus (sp?) has definitely made itself evident, and I have seen a lot more male 'skunk-stripe' displays since that point as well, though they usually only last a moment or two.

I also see Prime spending a lot more time traversing the rockwork. While he used to spend almost all of his time crawling around the side panel of the glass nearest my desk and the outside of the room, he now seems to enjoy crawling around the live rock a lot more, with his arms splaying out (sort of flexing) then wrapping around a close piece of rock (sort of a hugging gesture), and then exploring the crevaces with his arms. this behavior is also accompanied by more dynamic color displays. Today i saw him flashing in waves, like the cuttlefish 'passing clouds' display, but with only one or two waves at a time. This was very cool to see. He seemed to be hunting the straggling mysid shrimp or some other critters in and about the rock.

The other day i saw him sort of splayed out along the sand and he started pushing his arms into the sand bed and wiggling them around in the substrate (think loch ness monster humps). i couldnt figure it out.

Also i have noticed him brushing the outside and inside of his mantle with his arms a lot more often.

To the Aculeatus experts: any insights into these behavioral shifts?

On a final, unnerving note (that i have been putting off,) this shift back to normalcy is something of a mixed blessing. My apartment lease ends in June and it has been slowly becoming clear that Octopus Prime will outlive it. I have been talking to many of my friends about inheritting him, but only a few have experience keeping a SW tank, and none of them are currently running setups. I am waiting to hear back from a few friend's friends who may have cycled tanks already set up, but otherwise only one person has offered to become Prime's gaurdian after i have to leave, and he doesnt have a tank set up so i would need to move mine over to his house, no doubt causing a lot of die-off and a spike. Therefore, before it comes down to that, i would like to reach out the the community here. For anyone in the Central Mass area, there may be a free-to-a-good-home, but very mature Aculeatus becoming available this month. please let me know if youre responsible and interested.

Happy to hear he's doing better. I now have some problems of my own with my octo tank ! Octopus okay tank not so good.

Prime's behavior parallels Octane's to a T, including the stripe display, flashing and rock hugging. I swear I saw Octane put an arm up through his siphon! I have wondered if his desire to be massaged (a nightly routine) is because or started because his skin itches and if they shed skin cells other than on their suckers. I know (as much as that is possible - I know location of origin and his arms are too short and tapered) Octane is not an Aculeatus and is classified Octopus, not Adopus but the patterning and behavior are so similar it makes you wonder about relationships.

If you have no other alternative, I can take him and would pay for shipping but I worry about the heat and stress (Octane was older and still shipped stressed but OK. I would recommend a jar with holes placed in a large bag of water with oxygen if you have to go that route), hopefully someone closer will materialize. I would need to install a chiller on the tank (it gets too hot when octoproofed - not needed for the Mercs now in residence) so I would need a week's notice. I have a chiller that I can use on the tank but it has never been plumbed into the system.

i may need to take you up on that, d. I'll definitely let you know this week so there's fair warning.

does anyone have any input on the relative safety of a city move of the whole tank vs. a bag'n'ship move across the country?

HideNSeek was in the front barnacles tonight and will not likely live more than a week (I lost Medusa last night). I moved him to the smaller tank so that he cannot just disappear in case I need to make Prime a new home. I have lost two others in that tank and it never even hickupped but decided to move him anyway. When he goes, I will move LittleGirl and Wiley (assuming I can catch him - these are my CB Mercs) to the smaller tank. If push comes to shove and he lives longer than expected and Prime needs a home, I can put the breeder net in the 15 gallon but I don't think that is going to be necessary. My tank raised have done well but we are pushing the envelope for longevity at 14+ months and he is showing definite sesenence. The tank is scheduled to become a reef tank so that I can make the 140 a Vulgaris tank but there is no hurry and the 45 hex was designed for an octo when we built it out. Fortunately my first octo was a female Merc and the heat problem was easily solved with a fan in the sump and an open top. Prime would need the top closed but the chiller we had on our cold tank is available if he comes to stay :grin:

Unfortunately, I don't know much about shipping octos. Both Trapper and Octane were shipped in plastic jars inside a plastic bag with oxygen. The jar had considerable holes for good circulation and giving the octo something solid to cling to while it was tossed about. Both octos survived shipping and remained healthy. Octane showed stress for a few days but I did not see Trapper during that period to make a call. The little guys I tried to bring back from Charleston traveled in a net with a plastic lid to keep the net from fully collapsing and were placed in a 5 gallon bucket of water with an air line but they did not make the trip home.

HideNSeek was in the front barnacles tonight and will not likely live more than a week (I lost Medusa last night). I moved him to the smaller tank so that he cannot just disappear in case I need to make Prime a new home. I have lost two others in that tank and it never even hickupped but decided to move him anyway. When he goes, I will move LittleGirl and Wiley (assuming I can catch him - these are my CB Mercs) to the smaller tank. If push comes to shove and he lives longer than expected and Prime needs a home, I can put the breeder net in the 15 gallon but I don't think that is going to be necessary. My tank raised have done well but we are pushing the envelope for longevity at 14+ months and he is showing definite sesenence. The tank is scheduled to become a reef tank so that I can make the 140 a Vulgaris tank but there is no hurry and the 45 hex was designed for an octo when we built it out. Fortunately my first octo was a female Merc and the heat problem was easily solved with a fan in the sump and an open top. Prime would need the top closed but the chiller we had on our cold tank is available if he comes to stay :grin:

Unfortunately, I don't know much about shipping octos. Both Trapper and Octane were shipped in plastic jars inside a plastic bag with oxygen. The jar had considerable holes for good circulation and giving the octo something solid to cling to while it was tossed about. Both octos survived shipping and remained healthy. Octane showed stress for a few days but I did not see Trapper during that period to make a call. The little guys I tried to bring back from Charleston traveled in a net with a plastic lid to keep the net from fully collapsing and were placed in a 5 gallon bucket of water with an air line but they did not make the trip home.
Just curious about the chiller. How warm do your tanks get without it?

I will also take him if you cant find anyone local. I have a 100 gallon tank that is cycled and ready.

Just curious about the chiller. How warm do your tanks get without it?

If the house is in the high 70's it went to 82. I never left the top locked after the first time since we realized it was not necessary for Trapper. With the Mercs, leaving an inch or so of air space and having a couple of inches of overlap across the top is enough to octo proof as they don't like air very much. I am not sure a straight sided tank would do it though as I have seen three of my males partially out of the water for a second or two. Octane's tank stays 80 or below but the sump has more air space and the fan is more effective (I also have a cascading filter that may help some) even though the tank is smaller. Sometimes I wonder if 'Tane's tank gets a little too warm when he acts strangely. A midweek water change has always solved the behavior and that may be because the water is slightly cooler (water tests show no problems).

Wow thats warm I can see why you would need the chiller. With no heat the highest I ever get is mid 70s ( thats feeder tanks ) I keep all my tanks at around 80.

Wow thats warm I can see why you would need the chiller. With no heat the highest I ever get is mid 70s ( thats feeder tanks ) I keep all my tanks at around 80.

That's why I had to laugh when Cuttlegirl mentioned heaters as spare parts :wink: Big difference in where you live (also big difference in water even after RO/DI treatment). I am slightly higher (altitude) than Atlanta so we do get somewhat of a break in the worst of the heat but I keep Caribbean/warm water critters only with fans on all sumps. Our house is fairly large so the AC bill is astronomical (about $400/month additional). I keep a chiller on our reef and the available chiller was for my cold water tank (won't do that again). With this particular tank, the sump is inside a cabinet so even with two fans, the air cooling is minimized.

After a lot of thought and help from TONMO members (http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13623), Octopus Prime was carefully ensconced in a modified critter keeper placed in three plastic bags nessled in newspaper inside a styrofoam cooler with a cold pack anchored to the lid, placed inside a cardboard box and shipped UPS Early Saturday delivery :grin:. Due to a computer SNAFU, Mike was unable to contact me with the shipping info but Neal checked the front door on Sat AM and OP had safely arrived.

OP stressed a little during acclimation and entry to his new home (I finally had to coax him out of his critter keeper) but ate a shore shrimp on a feeding stick soon after being released to the tank and took another shore shrimp and a piece of Octane's frozen shrimp on Sunday (he may have killed a fiddler crab that was in the tank but did not eat it). Tonight he was quite active after midnight and came up and played with my hand for at least 5 minutes but did not want additional food.

I don't believe OP is an aculeatus but do think he is one of the horridus species complex. Prime is tiny with a mantle size of about 3 cm (the length of Trapper's, my original very large female mercatoris). According to Norman, there are more than 10 different octos in this group with some undescribed and most are Australian (an unlikely import). Looking through Cephalopos, A World Guide, the closest in size and viable location would be the little known abaculus but the identifying mosaic of white spots is not noticably apparent (photo by Roy Caldwell). capricornicus would be a very good match except for location of origin and the observation that OP appears to be both day and night time active (that may change after he is more familiar with his new home).

Good deal!

Good deal!

I wish this one was a breedable dwarf. OP has already shown an interest in interacting (only with the ambient totally black and a red light on the tank though ... interesting) and is as graceful as a briarius when it swims.

:welcome: to your new digs, OP!

Congrats to both of you :)

I looked and looked for him from about 7:00 until almost 9:00. I saw a lot of LR with octo eyes but no octo. Almost as soon as the lights went out (there is a red LED on 24/7 and 4 white and blue LED's on during the day) he was out swimming and didn't seem at all afraid of me. He ate one newly killed shore shrimp and when I tried a piece of Octane's frozen, a live shore shrimp got too interested. OP didn't eat the frozen but the curious shrimp is no more. It appears that two shore shrimp a night satisfies him (exactly twice what the mercs ate).

After maybe 15 minutes, he all but dove to the bottom and froze. I was almost afraid something dreadful had happened. He sat there and held his breath for a bit then started breathing again. When I rubbed the tank, he slowly back away and went into a barnacle. OP seems to be either very active or totally recluse with no middle ground.

thats a sweet lookin tank set up.

Thanks, It actually looks better than I can photograph. It was a second hand DIY that we bought for my son but he found it difficult to clean and swapped it for a rectangular 65 we vicarously accquired. We removed the leaky top, sawed off, shortened and moved the overflow, removed a front support stud and redrilled and resupported the frame, cut off the hood top, added an escape proof hinged lid (now with air holes) and then added a door decoration. Now it is the easiest to maintain tank in the house and looks appropriate in my living room. With the two door cornered cabinet, water changes take two minutes and with the low light, algae is never a problem so the tank need to be wiped down in the inside about once a month (I do stir the sand a little every week). It was redesigned as a ceph tank but I plan to convert our 140 to an octo tank and move the reef to this tank (with more lighting) - eventually :wink:

I thought OP looked small in the pictures, all the color and shape look right for aculeatus and mature size can vary but wow is he small. Most of the octos that are available in my area are aculeatus, the two females I have had one had a mantle of almost 4" and the one I have now is only about 2.5". ( both with eggs ) Happy he made the trip okay. Lookin good 8-)

OP came up and played with my fingers again tonight and would swim into my fingers for a quick mantle pet. He seems most active around 11:30 - 12:00 PM. Neal was able to feed him around 6:30 but he was not over joyed with being disturbed. We have set the timer to turn the lights off earlier to see if he will adapt and come out to play before Neal goes to bed :wink:

I hope Mucktopus will take a look at him and his size to suggest an alternate ID.

sounds like the tank took a little work, but it also sounds like it came out pretty good. i wanna build a large tank sometime in the near future. i need to research it some more tho. i have a background in construcion, but glass isn't cheap, so i wanna make sure i do it right.

I am not sure why. When I came home he was pinned by two arms by the pencil urchin with several brissle worms attached to the pinned arms. I removed the urchin and could see damage at the end of his arms and could tell he was very weak. I moved him to a breeder net inside the tank to keep preditors away but he gave no resistence to being moved.

I checked on him several times an hour. Initially he was breathing very heavily but he seemed to be recovering after an hour or two but I think he had expired. He does not even look dead :cry: but I cannot see breathing and he does not react to my fingers.

It reminds me of Tuvalu being trapped by the starfish and leaves the same questions. Was he already dieing and the urchin could take advantage or did the urchin trap and tramatize the octo? Was his zealous night time activity really restless sesenence or was he just happily active? Why didn't he throw an arm when the urchin pinned him? We know he was not young (4.5 months in captivity but sexually immature on arrival) but he was eating well and did not show signs of stress beyond the first hour after acclimation (tank parms are zero on nitrites and ammonia, ph 83 but 30 on nitrates).

Man. That royally sucks. Sorry you two. It was a valiant effort to relocate him!

RIP OP. :angelpus: