As you can tell from the title (thanks Simple for a quick cut and paste :wink:), I have decided that Octane is a mature adult, likely female and possibly after egg hatching :cry:. I am afraid I am joining AM and BigPapa (and others) with this one as it is immediately receptive to attention and will come up to a finger slowly stroked on the glass as if to have her mantle rubbed, eats directly from my hand, shows a wide variety of patterning and color variation and is adorable. The rest, unfortunately, is sooo sad. She has the tip of an arm recently missing (I fear she removed it), she is showing serious corkscrew on the arms and is wandering to and fro on the glass. I fell in love opening the box so I already know the heartache that will follow shortly.

Here are some of her first day pictures with some of the identifing features. I was hoping vulgaris (and trying to ignore the corkscrew) most of the day until I offered her food on a stick and her eye spot literally glowed. Later, when I reviewed the pictures, I saw it clearly and you should see it in the first of the pictures that follow:

Yup, she certainly looks like other pics of hummelincki-- sorry to hear about the corkscrew :sad: but it sounds like she's happy to join you for a brief time, at least...

Hopefully she is able to continue for a while longer, and give you more time with her. Just wondering, do O. Hummelincki produce large eggs or small eggs?

Unfortunately, they are a small egg species. They are so terrific at this stage that it is a real shame as I think they would be popular pets if they could be tank bred.

We elected to put a red night light on Octane's tank (I really need to post about this night light on the tank forum if I can find another like it - totally forgot that it will do a full red set of LED's if you make that selection and it was not overly expensive) and almost immediately noticed something odd, her arms were stretched completely out straight. Later, I turned on the lights over the shrimp tank (near Octane's tank, but under a stairwell) and she came over to the light and curled the arm tips again. Lights off, arms straight. The reaction was almost immediate. I have no clue what this means.

On a less surprising note, Octane's eyes were fully open with the lights off (red light on) but are only open as slits during daylight.

Well, congrats and hope Octane's around longer than you expect.

Sounds like dialysis from being in the dark..

Congratulations and welcome to Octane!

About the curled or corkscrew legs - there seem to be times when an octopus will curl its legs when it doesn't mean the end of life. So there's hope.

Octane sounds like a real winner. It must be nice to have a slightly larger octopus for a change!

Nancy

Sounds like dialysis from being in the dark..

Er, I think you mean dilation... octos (and probably other cephs) are interesting in that they have two independent ways to accommodate to low light levels: expanding the pupil, and also moving pigment from the back to the front of the photoreceptive cells. I've got a paper around somewhere describing how they use pupil size for quick adjustments and pigment movement for slow ones, so often the pupil will change dramatically when the light first goes up or down, but then it will go back a bit. Of course, in the darkest conditions, they probably want to move the pigment forward and open the pupil as much as possible... in medium light, I wonder if this is a mechanism to keep the pupils small for camouflage, since the pupils are pretty much the only part of the octo that stands out...

Monty,
Can you explain a bit about octo eyes. To the observer, they appear to have an upper and lower eyelid that opens and closes from top to bottom but I think I saw somewhere that this is not really the case. We have also noticed that Octane's "lids" can change color, at least from white to orangeish.

Nancy,
I am not sure if it is so much the size (Neal has been pushing for a larger one for a while now) or just the way this species interacts immediately (Neal is going to be disappointed when we have a different kind I think). Unfortunately, it may well be that they are only this interactive when they are aged and not as "friendly" as juveniles. I have not seen old posts on these, do you recall if anyone has had a juvenile?

Neal keeps trying to make the arms not be cork screwing and only curled. We have agreed to just enjoy her while we can (Neal also insists on "him" and says a female bit off the end of the missing arm while he was trying to mate - Lorena Bobbitt octo syndrome. It doesn't matter that it is the 1st arm and not the third). Part of his insistence probably comes from the fact that our male Mercs have been far more interactive than our females. I did notice that Octane seemed to curl one arm more than the others for a short time tonight but later the curled up arm (not the tip) switched so I am still watching to see if I can detect a difference in a tip that I may have missed. The arms themselves are interesting as the web and arms at the base are very very thick. So thick that the web looks more like a body part (I saw her spread out the web tonight but failed to grab the camera - really neat). The arms taper very quickly and appear short, compared to the mantle but I think the thick webbing exagerates the short arm look.

We did see a lot of sucker shedding in the bag and for the first 24 hours. I would be overjoyed to think this was the cause of the arm behavior but Octane's mantle is between 2 and 2.5 inches and she stays on the wall rather than climbing about on the LR so, sadly, I feel comfortable with saying she is a full grown adult.

She has chosen an end section of the tank that is her home (at least for now) and wanders about 6 inches on the black, back wall (rarely going behind the live rock) and the full 12" of the side wall but will not turn the corner to walk on the front of the tank. I don't think it is the lighting since she will come out to investigate if I turn the shrimp lights on (close to her clear, side wall) but she seems to be uncomfortable with going to the front of the tank. I have tried coaxing her by stroking the glass (she will come to my finger if it is within her territory) and she will touch the front side as if considering it but will not cross the corner.

I'll have to dig up the paper, but I'm pretty sure that the iris does have chromatophores, so it can change colors. I don't remember what the musculature of the pupil is like, though.

:welcome: Octane :octopus2:

I went on an octo-hunt this AM because she was not in her usual quadrant (usual for 2 days :wink:) and I was paniced! I finally located her suckers showing from behind the live rock. Her arms were fully white on the sucker side and I believe she was sleeping. Normally the underside stays an oranish color, regardless of the rest of her coloring.

Anyone who has seen the Marginaris (Coconut Octopus) film clip where the little guy was walking around with his house, would see the similarity in the way Octane walks across the sand. The movement is very different from the Mercatois. Neal wanted me to get a video of it and, of course, she would not move so he, ummm, encouraged her a little but you can get an idea of what I am trying to describe from the video. She almost looks like a cuttlefish.

Note, the sound is out on my computer so I have no idea what we were saying :oops:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/th_MarginarisCrawl.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/?action=view&current=MarginarisCrawl.flv)

Here are a couple of shots of her posing as a rock and one that does not do justice to her magnificent web flair and purple blue eye spot.

:)

Very cool octo!

yup. great video..."'why won't you just believe I'm a rock, and start ignoring me?"

Octane has an interesting look; the spots look more bimac-like than other pics of hummelincki I've seen, but it sure doesn't move like a bimac, and the coloring other than the eyespots seems differently mottled. The closest thing I could find flipping through Norman is what he calls the Octopus aegina complex, particularly the one pic of Octopus fangsiao from near Japan (although there's only one picture, it looks like your pic where octane is showing eyespots and spreading webbing against the glass.)

Just got to watch the video. Tuvalu would shine her eyespots the brightest whenever she was white with the black markings like in that picture. She would "puff up", turn white and flash when I was approaching the tank. I never could get a good picture of her doing it. Wish I'd gone with white sand!

Good video, D!

Individual octopuses are different, and I don't think you can say because your octopus is interactive it's at the end of it's life. It's probably older than 3 or 4 months, though.

Females can be quite interactive, too, not just males.

In the future I see you and Neal with many,many octopuses!

Nancy

Nancy, one (or 12, whats a few numbers) octo at a time 8-). (I can't believe I may have 12 octopuses, that thought just occurred to me :roll:). Neal only takes a casual interest in the Mercs (and only in Sisturus and Medusa) but he it totally enthralled with Octane. Our skimmer came in today and Neal set it up in spite of our water disaster (frozen water pipe that broke). The hinge and latches for the top are due in Monday so her tank conversion is almost complete and likely to be an octo tank for a long time.

Monty, I am fairly certain of Octane's identity. I know the diver that caught her and that she came from a shallow reef (not sure if Gulf or Atlantic side but I think Gulf side) in the keys in about 4' of water. I will take a picture (if she will hold the look long enough for me to photograph it) of that very dull octo Norman shows for the Caribbean 2-spot. The range of looks is simply outstanding and, at least at this point, changes often.

AM, I am glad you mentioned the "blinking" as I was commenting on it tonight. Octane will "blink" even in brown mode but you have to be paying attention to catch it and I notice it most when she is against the black back of the tank. It looks a lot like the squid or cuttle blink and I don't know if this is common with the medium sized octos in general or not as I don't think even you mentioned it before. I really want a GOOD picture of that white spread out web and glowing eye spot but I was lucky to get even one in focus and out of color picture this time.

She ate two of her snails! They were supposed to be clean-up crew (and have been residence of the tank for a long time)and I forgot that larger octos liked to eat them since my Mercs leave them alone (for the most part). We are still trying to get a feel for how much to feed her. She takes quite awhile to eat a crab. The night she was only found one crab is when I found the cleaned out snail shells so we are trying two now. The first one she takes at the top of the tank by hand, a second she will eat but waits for it to be dropped, then pounces on it IF she has finished the first one. She does not leave much for the clean up crew.

Lynn sent several mithrax with Octane so I have been giving her both the mithrax and fiddlers. I hate feeding mithrax and one red one managed to escape her attention for 48 hours and climbed up on the pump. I took a picture of it (don't know if is postable yet), rescued it and stuck it in another, safer tank :roll:.


Octane seems to be settling in and now "goes to bed" when her lights go out (and I start to feed Sisturus and Medusa). Initially, she would come over to the edge of her tank when I would turn on the light to retrieve shrimp for the nocturnals but now when she goes behind the LR, she seems to stay put for the night. This morning's octo hunt found her in the same place as my panic morning so I hope this means she is comfortable with her digs. She is out in the open when we come home and stays visible until lights out. I don't know what time she awakens yet as this will be our first weekend with her.

D, this is my best eyespot recording of Tuvalu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ903cFlmlo Really wish I'd had a better quality camera to work with but I guess something is better than nothing. At first, you can't see the eyespot at all, and then when I get close to her FLASH!

D- Wow- Octane is just the coolest! We're jealous... Great pics, too. Its fun to stare at them and try to figure out what's different. If we didn't know we were looking for Octane, we'd have been fooled by her "I'm a rock" impression.

AM, Tuvalu was definitely the same species. She looks much smaller than Octane in the video but it is hard to be sure since Neals fingers look small in the clip with Octane and he has very large hands. Octanes mantle is at least 2" (possibly 2.5) from the top of the eyes to the back of the mantle and she is close to that length again from the eyes to the end of her at rest webbing (that looks much like a "body" because it is so thick).

An earlier thread mentioned "stringy poop", did you notice this at all with Tuvalu? Octane had regular looking poop in her shipping bag but we are seeing her expel more of a clear colored rope with a very thin string (much like dog hair in fineness). This may be attritubed to the three snails she has eaten but I am not comfortable with that "guess". We were out today and came home later than usual. Octane was in the corner opposite her normal area and would not come to the front. Neal offered a crab that she snatched immediately and then slowly released the snail she had hidden in her webbing (still alive) so it is obvious she prefers the crabs. I have some mussles and slightly larger than normal live shore shrimp (thanks to Mike, at livebrineshrimp.com) that I will try tomorrow to see if they interest her and put some small hermits in the tank in hopes that she will ignore them. She also returned to her normal side of the tank and came forward to watch us (and get a second crab) shortly after receiving the first. We offered a third crab to see if she was still hungry (she did her first from the top by hand, second must be dropped and captured routine again tonight) but she just blew it away so we think we have a bit of a handle on how much to feed.

gholland, I will tell you that you have much to look forward to in our little world but the excitement with Octane is very likely to be short lived. We had several members to acquire this species over about a 3 month period and none of them survived very long even though they seemed to be doing well in their tanks. Knowing this, I pout a bit when Octane goes to bed at the same time I feed Sisturus and Medusa since I would like to be able to see her while I am sitting there ;>).

Your enthusiasm with Varys suggests you are hooked and will have plenty of time to experience these creatures. It is rather humerous that I don't get to feed Octane much as Neal beats me to her care most nights (he does usually wait for me to be present though) and I have the feeling we are unlikely to go without a larger octo now, in addition to my little Merc ;>).

Congrats D! I just went through this thread and am so happy Octane is working out for you! When I watched the 'moving rock' video I couldnt help but think she looked like she had food she was carrying at the same time so that was why she kept her legs in. Anyway, I will keep checking in from time to time to see how goes Octane and again, Congrats and best of luck!!

D - yes, I saw the same stringy stuff occasionally, usually if I bothered her while she was eating. She would blow chunks at me. :) Hah.

Neal was feeding Octane (to show her off to my sister :roll:) early last night while I was in the kitchen and started laughing and calling me to come quickly! By the time I turned the corner, he was wiping off the lights (about 1' above her tank). It seems she jetted water at him, not once but twice!:razz:.

After giving her her second crab last night we were not sure if she still wanted another or was just hanging out at the top of the tank so she got a third offering and ignored it. However, this afternoon she came out at around 2:30 (seem she has something in common with L82rise), went to the top of her live rock pile and started feeling around with her arms. She located that crab and did not ignore it this time. Unlike yesterday, however, she did not stay out and went back into her den until supper time (when we are all sitting around the table in the room). In spite of the brunch, she took three crabs tonight (she kept two in her web and went to her den to eat them) so I am not sure if we need to leave an extra one in for her to find during the day or not. She is eating more than I would expect so I could use some experienced comments on quantity. If she is eating more than should be expected then I think we may need to watch for brooding behavior and give her as much as she will eat. I am hesitant to do that though because if she is not getting ready to lay eggs, Roy has mentioned reducing food intake to expand longevity. The fine tuning is a puzzle.

So far so good. Octane is not as "friendly" now and will sometimes hide when we approach the tank but comes back out to watch us within a few minutes. She is no longer taking crabs by hand but will approach the offering over and over, waiting for it to be dropped. This makes me think she is acting much more as to be expected of an adjusting octo. She was shedding sucker pads the day I got her and I hope that also means she has some natural time left. The best news on the longevity hopes is that the severed arm (about 1/4 of the arm is missing) that had a thin white "string" hanging from the end (I was worried the string was dead, potentially infected remains of the severed arm) is starting to grow. The stringy white material is now (or replaced by) a tiny arm tip complete with suckers and proper coloration.

Last night while I was watching her she turned a pale brown and squirted water from her sipon as if something upset her (no ink). She was obviously nervous but I could not see anything that should be bothering her. I finally realized that the washing machine in the adjoining room had started its drain and spin cycle. I checked the counter holding her tank and could not really feel the vibrations but eventually noticed that I could feel a slight vibration through the floor which would likely translate up the wall to the tank. Her reaction made me think about the "Octopus Volcano" video. She settled down pretty quickly and today, I did not notice a reaction with the washer going but it may only be in the spin cycle that it effects her.

I think the stringy poop may come from eating snails and muscles. I don't see it when she only eats crabs.

yea mine gets that stringy stuff from scallops but not from shrimp.

Two weeks and still holding our breath. Octane is less interactive but still comes out to watch us every night. She "slept in" a lot yesterday and had me worried but tonight she came up to the top of the tank to take a crab and took a small shrimp from a feeding tube later so I think we are still doing OK.

I noticed that one of her water movement pumps had stopped. When I encouraged it to start again, she was more active than she has been for the last couple of days. She did still go to bed early (initially she would wait for light out but this week she has been retiring about an hour earlier). I keep worrying that she will start brooding ...

I keep trying to get a photo of her furry brown look but she does not keep it when she knows someone is paying attention.
Here are a couple of different looks. The picture that look elongated is not, she will show a "cone" head shape from time to time (my Mercs do it when they are unhappy but not particularly scared). The last shot is a poor quality picture of her tank and the little red mithrax that I just had to rescue:hmm:

No pics tonight but a couple of random observations.

Neal came up with a way for me to remember and say the species name. After you think about his interpretation, it may be that there was intended humor in the name. Hummel (as in the figurines) and inky (as in octo ink) but change the spelling slightly to make it look official ;>)

When Octane takes a shrimp (2.5" - 3") she eats it and then takes a nap. This is seems to be consistent but we have not seen the rest period when she eats crabs.

My parents drove all the way up here (an hour's drive) just to see her and take pictures for an hour and return home. Unfortunately, when they came she had recently eaten a shrimp ;>). However, it was a fairly short nap and she ventured out and gave them a nice show. Later, mother called and said, multiple times (probably because mothers always need to repeat to their children to get a point across even after the children are grandparents themselves), "that is the neatest critter you have had yet". She did say that the seahorses were nice (we are horseless at the moment, having lost our last that Saturday) but Octane actually DID something. Their travel time was longer than their stay but Dad wanted to see and film Octane before she died (we had explained that she was an adult and may not be with us long). I had to laugh since they have never come up here just to visit my critters.

That's funny.

What is? Hummel inky, naps or my parents (or all of the above ;>)?

Is that glass or acrylic?

Acrylic. They scratch like crazy but I still like them over glass for a number of reasons. This one was a fresh water setup but just the right size to put on our counter (whos sole purpose today is to house various feeder/hospital/QT tanks along with this display;>). We drilled it and added a sump DIY style (as we have with several others). Our "overflow" is on the unusual side but it was easy to modify yet again for the octo. I particularly like this tank (we have two of these, the second acquired somewhat serendipitously) because of its size and height. Unfortunately, the photo does not display it very well but I had to post the photo of my rescued red Mithrax ;>)

Octane walked, up-right across the sand in her/his tank tonight! I saw her/him hunting in the live rock late this afternoon (after feeding time). This in itself is intresting to watch as s/he kind of spreads out and starts poking arms into all the crevices (not a wonder that an arm tip was missing). This is not often performed in front of us, possibly because a pathetic look will always cause the food slaves to bring a meal. When Octane saw me s/he pulled away (not hurridly) and stood up on her arms and walked back to the normal feeding quadrant (roughtly a 12" stroll). Her arms held her head about 2" of the substrate during the entire prominade. Afterwards, I set up the camera (and found I do have a light compensation for movies) and waited for the better part of two hours to see if it would happen again - I even put a crab in on the opposite side of the tank - but no such luck. Food slave is present, no need to hunt ;>(. I have kept the camera set on a tripod with the light settings adjusted so I hope the opportunity presents it self again as it was very interesting to watch.

Do note that I am revising my thoughts on Octane's sex. Now that s/he is more relaxed in the tank and the arms uncurl (and recurl) during movement, one arm is staying curled up all the time and it is the third on the right side. I haven't pointed this out to Neal yet (who has been insistent that Octane is male for no reason other than he does not want him to brood and disappear for the last month of life) as it just became apparent tonight and Neal is under the weather so he also missed the walk. I still have not been able to get a good look at the arm tip to confirm but the deference to that arm is becoming quite distinct.

Octane is very cute! Seems that conehead is a normal behavior as quite a few of mine have done that also, when they "act" scared or hunting.

Carol,
It does seem to be more posturing than true fear since Octane turns very white he is not quite sure if the food dropped in the aquarium is pray or preditor. If one of us surprises him (including the Newfie) the reaction is ink and hide but the striped cone head never results in ink, fleeing or white coloration. When the Mercs would show it (I have not seen them do it for quite some time) they did not flee either so it seems to have some other meaning, perhaps it is a threat (?) but, with the Mercs, it was not directed at each other.

I have been trying a "toy" experiment with Octane. My son (28) got this as a stocking stuffer two Xmas' ago and thought it might make an interesting octotoy. The mercs ignored it but we are trying again with the larger octo. I have a plastic tie attached to one ring and put a shrimp on the tie and push it into the ball. So far Octane will investigate it a little (we are leaving it in the tank for now without the shrimp) but look who learned the first day :oops:

lol thats cool. starfish beet him to it. what type of star is that?

thats funny.

FishKid,
You are actually looking at three different stars. I don't have the proper names but they are all from south FL. The tan one is known as a "common" star (a lot like a common brown octopus - they can vary in what they really are), the orange, a knobby and the one you don't really see is a green serpent star named Mr. Green Jeans (I believe he is the longest kept critter I have and is constantly loosing arms - he has done best in this tank with Octane and looks healthier than he ever has). The knobby is a really great bright orange. It is not suitable for a reef tank but is my very best octo clean-up critter and a major favorite.

when i get my 75g set up at the end of summer i think i'll get a knobby. thanks!

FK,
You DID read that I said it was NOT reef safe, right? It WILL eat clams (it has not messed with the snails or hermits though), some corals and anything an octo leaves behind. It IS safe for an octo tank if the aquarium is designed around the suggestions on TONMO but if you want corals, I don't recommend it (Dom's tank, for instance would not be a safe bet). They should also be a great a addition to any FOWLR tank for the same reasoning. Also, I noted that you mentioned an interest in harlequin shrimp, not a good tank mate for these guys.

my 75g is going to be an octo tank for a briareus. and for the harleys i was going to set up there own tank.

Octane is starting to get the idea that the ball is a food container. He was a bit odd about it last night because we put the food ball at the front of the tank. He made pass after pass around it and felt the shrimp with his arms but would not stop and eat. By bed time the shrimp was still in the ball (now with starfish - a curious race every night) so I removed it and put in two live crabs for him to find in the morning. Tonight we put the ball back in the feeding area (back right side of the tank) and he only took a few minutes to decide to take the bait.

If I am going to have ugly plastic stuff in my tanks, they need a purpose. My initial thought was to see if Octane would communicate when he was hungry by going to the ball or pushing it around when he saw me but Neal had a more interesting additional suggestion that we are going to try. Once Octane is a little more comfortable with the ball, we will add a second object that will only contain crab while the ball will only contain shrimp. Our goal is to see if he not only recognized the difference but trys to communicate which he would rather have.

We both, independently, thought about how interesting and sad this will be since we know we are on a short time schedule and may not be able to finish the experiment but so far Octane is doing well and gives us a show anytime we sit with him.

There has been a live clam in Octane's tank for months before Octane arrived. Up until today, he has ignored it but tonight I found it open and totally empty. There were no drill holes (very thick shelled variety) so I don't know if it just died and he scavenged or if he found another way to open it but nothing else in the tank could have emptied it that quickly. He only ate half a shrimp tonight (but he did take it out of the ball) but did take his crab (Octane usually eats one shrimp and one crab a night) from my fingers. I put another clam in the same location so we'll see if it is still alive tomorrow.

If anyone has an idea for a live crab container (no top desired), I am looking for something for the second half of our feeding experiment.

This morning as I was leaving for work I noticed Octane in sand disguise curled in the front corner of his tank. Very unusual as he normally does not come out until about 2:00 in the afternoon. When I got home (later than usual) he was "still" sitting their sort of ball shaped. Definitely scary until he moved a bit and I noticed the new clam (empty) tucked up under his web. I am still not sure if the starfish open it and he plunders or if he has found a way to kill the clam without damaging the thick shell. Needless to say, I put another in the tank tonight and tried to film him. This time the clam was placed near the front of the tank and he spent the better part of an hour going back and forth planning an attack. Then the lights went out and he decided it could wait until morning.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/th_ClamHuntPost.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/?action=view&current=ClamHuntPost.flv)

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/th_OffToBed.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/?action=view&current=OffToBed.flv)

Cool vids.Octane seems very stocky(if thats possible).Achilles has figured out how to open mussels,but Olorin just pushes them around his tank for about 15 mins.

Asher,
Yes, I would call his look "stocky" and is probably why it has been confused with Vulgaris (and visa-versa). The arms at the head are very thick and make him look like he has a body about half his mantle size. I wish I could get a good picture of a web spread as you would think is was an entirely different species.

He ate the clam this morning and seems to have figured out a good way to get to them open but I have yet to see him capture it. Octane seems to think we should not watch him hunt. I offered a crab tonight that had died (very recently). He normally hems and haws when I try to hand feed and makes tons of close contact but plays a waiting game to see if I will just drop the food (then he goes after it immediately). Tonight he must have been a bit more hungry as he came right up to my hand but then brushed his mantle against the crab (touching it between the eyes and down the mantle) several times before ever so gently taking it from my fingers. In the German version of "Octopus Volcano" there were several scenes where the researcher would stroke a swimming Vulgaris on the mantle and Nancy has mentioned that Ollie liked to be petted between the eyes. I have not seen Octane attempt to rub or scratch and the contact was very delicate so the motive is most curious.

I remembered a double shot glass that is sort of snowman shaped (with only two snow balls .>) that we have down in the bar so I decided to see if it would work for my crab vs shrimp experiment. Octane showed some initial interest in the new object so I put a dead crab halfway between the two sections. He stayed out much later than usual (even after the lights were out) but did not take the crab (I doubt he was hungry after two crabs and a clam). It will be interesting to see if the crab is gone in the morning or if I find starfish in the glass.

A video of Octane NOT taking the crab out of his bottle. I sat for an hour turning the camera off and on trying to film him getting this crab. It would have been his second, the first he took during dinner while we were not looking but purposefully reached down and picked up the empty shell so I thought he might want a second. Eventually, the crab climbed out of the bottle and was likely lunch the next day.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/th_OctaneAndCrabJar-2.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/?action=view&current=OctaneAndCrabJar-2.flv)

I don't have a leggo big block in the house but a neighbor gave me a leggo octopus. I had tried putting it in the tank with the Mercs and they pretty much ignored it. However, Octane found it interesting and investigated it for the better part of an hour.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/th_OctaneWithPlasticOcto.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/?action=view&current=OctaneWithPlasticOcto.flv)

Rigby never swims like that... he always just walks anywhere he wants to go.... except sometimes he will drop himself off the glass...

Wonderful octopus. I still miss my Tuvalu. She was very much the same as Octane.

If wishes were horses, the Hummelincki would have large eggs ...

Neal spooked Octane tonight (he is not sure what he did differently since he was just topping off the tank). Octane was at the front of the tank and puffed up to the size of Neal's fist and brilliant white with glowing blue eyespots (I have only see this a couple of times). No time for the camera, unfortunately. He looked down so as not to spill the water and then looked back and Octane had disappeared. When finally located, Octane was at the back of the tank (not behind anything but where there is no lighting because of our DIY overflow) and was his darkest brown (that is almost undetectable from the black back). Neal never even saw him move and felt that the exit and color change could have taken no more than a couple of seconds. He continues to amaze us.

Octane has taken shrimp directly from my fingers several times and it is amazing how gentle he is, just the slightest touch even when my fingers are accidently in the way of the shrimp. He really showed off for my grand kids last weekend and never stops impressing me.

Last night and again tonight, when I put my finger at the top of the tank, he came up to be petted. Nancy has mentioned that Ollie did something like this and the German version of Octopus Volcano (I don't remember seeing it in the American version) showed the diver petting a Vulgaris similarly. Octane does not come to my finger arms first even when I am petting him from the outside of the tank (he has been coming to the corner of the tank when I rub it with my finger almost since he was introduced to tank life). The movement and positioning is mantle first then he places the spot between his eyes where my finger is in the water, rises to my finger and accepts a few finger rubs before moving off by slowly lowering himself. He does not attempt to touch my fingers with his arms. When I reach to touch an arm, he withdraws. I suspect he does not like the nicotine or menthol taste that I am sure is there but the Mercs do not show this rejection. What a shame this species cannot be tank bred and raised!

One other interesting thing I noticed tonight is that Octane can flash just his eyelids (I am not clear if these are lids but they appear as a covering and not part of the eye). Octane was changing just the "lid" from off white to orange in rapid succession and you could visualize why a diver might find this demonic. Of course, I just thought it was facinating. He was not implying aggression or fear with any body posture or movement, just flashing his eyes at me. I have seen the flash before but it has been in conjuction with body flashing. I don't think it meant, "I am hungry" since he usually colors primarily white when looking for or expecting food.

Octane came up to Neal tonight when he was offering shrimp and wanted a finger massage. He didn't take the shrimp but did want Neal to tickle between his eyes and on his head (the real head, not the mantle). He does not seem to "scratch" on the LR so I don't think his skin itches. We are clueless as to why he likes this kind of attention. He does not stay in position long but seems quite clear that he wants the contact.

I found Octane in this very strange pose tonight and ultimately realized he was eating a crab. If you look closely, you will realize he is "sitting" with his mantle against the glass and his head toward the inside of the tank, ie, what you think you see as his mantle is not.

The last shot shows him thinking about a clam.

The video is a bit long but Neal captured Octane coming up to be petted :grin:. He was acting very strangely tonight. I usually sit for a few minutes after dinner and watch the Octo Channel and pet him through the glass. Tonight my sister called and I was in the room but not in front of the tank. I looked over and noticed Octane swimming and flaring back and forth across the tank, over and over again. I finally went over and started petting the glass and he calmed down. This may be the beginning of sesenence but he stopped the irratic motion immediately when I went over to the tank (I know he was not hungry because he ate a shrimp and a crab and refused a second crab earlier and there is a live one still in the tank). I decided to see if he wanted to be petted and opened the tank. He accepted touching for several minutes so I Neal had time to get the camera out and shot the following video. He continued to come up for petting after the pictures as well.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/th_OctoPets.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/?action=view&current=OctoPets.flv)

cute!

Very cool!

I like how he repeatedly starts to leave and then changes his mind. "Oh... maybe just one more!"

Octane is getting faster at opening clams. There is no hole in the shell and he seems to need leverage trying to get them open (note the arm around the pipe) and seems to squeeze his web as if exerting pressure. He likes the clams more than the frozen shrimp and refuses the shrimp now but I hope he will want some variety (he still eats fiddlers and shore shrimp) and accept the shrimp again. Last night when I offered shrimp by hand he was quite insistent that he did not want it. He came up to my fingers and used an arm to repeatedly push the shrimp back up into my hand. Once I removed the shrimp, he wanted to be petted a little. He never stops being amazing.

The last picture is of Mr. Green Jeans (my oldest saltwater critter) with all his arms (a first in several years) scavaging the remains.

Great photos!

Nancy

Every once in awhile I sneak in a shot that actually looks like what my mind sees :rolleyes:

Octane seems to have a "tickle spot". He has started coming up to the top of the tank when I open it and expects to be petted where the web and arms join just below the eyes (the "head"?). Sometimes he seems to almost go to sleep and will sort of relax against the tank wall and close his eyes. He usually makes several passes at my finger, sits to be "tickled", slides away and then returns for more for 4 or 5 passes then he is done and goes about his business. He will make sure I understand by bringing this section of his body up out of the water until I start to pet him. He occassionally will touch, but not grab, my one of my other fingers with an arm while he is getting his massage. If I rub the "wrong" spot, he will send a small jet of water at my hand but not with enough force for the water to leave the tank (he CAN easily hit the lights that are over a foot above the tank) and moves away a bit but then returns.

Neal is pouting though as Octane has only allowed Neal to pet him once. I find this interesting since Neal feeds him during the week and it might suggest that it is the familiarity (ie time spent in front of the tank just watching and touching the tank) rather than food that draws his attention to people. It might also be that when I do feed it is with bare hands and not a feeding stick (Sisturus responded to hand feeding where none of the other Mercs would consistently accept food by hand). Octane takes shrimp more quickly and consistently from a stick and he is fed both ways so I suspect that feeding is not the main difference.

Definitely a personality showing through there! :)

Nancy's Ollie used to also come to the surface to get her share of physical contact and petting just like you are describing

I always did want to go back and find some of Nancy's posts on Ollie since I have seen her reference petting him. I am hoping the book will have a story or two about him.

i love the video of that! In the wild dont they live solitary lives? By them showing a behavior where they are wanting physical contact seems like it has to be a learned behavior that only would happen in captivity. Very interesting!

i love the video of that! In the wild dont they live solitary lives? By them showing a behavior where they are wanting physical contact seems like it has to be a learned behavior that only would happen in captivity. Very interesting!

Possibly not. In the German version of Octopus Volcano (I am almost sure the American version did not show this or we missed part of the show entirely), the diver was petting a wild Vulgaris. There are other videos about that show divers interacting with GPO's as well (to see the video go about halfway down this page for the link:

http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11917&highlight=WDR

Octane seems to expect petting when I am around the tank. Sometimes he will reach out and touch my other fingers and occassionally will pull. I am careful not to allow him to put my finger under his web when he does this and he will usually swim away rather quickly (not paniced though) when he can't have his way. He usually returns to the top of the tank shortly, however.

Tonight he let me pet the underside of his mantle several times. Lately, he has preferred a massage just below the eyes but tonight he decided his mantle needed attention. There are a number of cubbies in the LR for him but I wonder if his skin might itch and the massage provides soft, safe scratching. It is interesting to note that the skin can be loose and can wrinkle when you rub it. Sometimes he will show a "pig tail" at the top of the mantle that seems to be the excess skin. I wonder if this is true of all octos that can show cryptic patterns. The Merc's skin always seems tight and they show little cryptic patterning where 'tane's will slide and he has a wide variety of three dimentional looks. He never shows much patterning (color or relief) when he comes for attention.

I am also worried that he may be bored and need "enrichment". I never get this impression from the Mercs (HideNSeek and Medusa are now 13 months old). He gets live crabs, shore shrimp, regular large shrimp (brought back from Charleston and still doing well but not immediately eaten) and clams for "excersize" but I feel (I wish I could put my finger on why) that he needs some kind of tank mate or other creature he can watch in a near by tank. My "feeling" may be that I sense the restlessness of sensence or that he really needs a larger tank since this species seems to like to swim. I keep looking at our 140 reef but even if I relocate the corals (all softies so not a major problem), I have a mandarin that I could not catch and a pair of feather stars that I am terrified would not do well in another tank and are too delicate for an octo tank. I keep looking on eBay ... :hmm:

'Tane continues to want more attention in the evening and has extended the time he accepts petting. He goes to sleep much later now (after I feed Medusa where before he would beat the lights turning off at 11:00) and seem restless. I looked up his expected max size and his mantle appears to be at max but the arms are shorter (I will get a tape measure and try to verify my guestimate this week). I also noticed that the loose skin I mentioned in my last post can catch the return waterflow and form almost a flapping wing. I don't know if his skin has always been this loose (the pig tail is present in the juveniles) or if this is a sign of aging. He can still color a full range of browns to orange and for very distinct cryptic patterns.

The three color change pictures occurred within a very short interval. #2 and #3 were about 3 seconds apart.

So beautiful. He looks quite a bit bigger than Tuvalu or Polythemus were.

I hope someone comes up with a reliable and steady source for healthy hummelinckis.

Unfortunately, my guestimate on mantle size (the 7 mm max mentioned in Norman) was not the typical :sly:female oversite and from eyes to resting (not extended) mantle tip is 2.5 inches.

I did initiate a game with him tonight with mixed results using a floating plastic "ice cube". We (me, the current and Octane) pushed it in and out of a corner for fifteen or twenty minutes tonight and I will continue experimenting to see if the interaction helps with the restlessness. Additionally, I put a small tank of shore shrimp up against one side of the tank so that he sees motion during the period when no one is around.

The Hummelincki really is much more like a pet, with the needs of attention and activity, than caring for the Mercs. Where the Mercs would act counter to their shy behavior by constantly being exposed to people (assumption on my part why the ones in the heavily trafficed eating area are so much more interactive than the ones in the quieter living room), Octane seems to naturally crave attention (he is also in the eating area) and tries to get himself noticed and then needs even more attention. I hope the other Hummelincki keepers will help confirm or counter this thinking since Octane is my first of this species.

I think I'd agree. Oliver spends far, far too much time hanging out at the front of the tank, and often chooses to be active (and interactive) when we are around. The tank sits at one end of the six foot long table we use as a dining table, and (right now, for example) as a laptop docking station, and if he notices we're here, he'll often come out and keep a watchful eye on us, wander round, and yes, interact.

These really are not shy octos! I consider myself quite lucky to have had one as my first octopus. Tug of war, hide and seek, and squirt the stupid human when she doesn't give him what he wants...

I like the ice cube idea. Might try that. 'Course, I might wind up getting another eyeful of water if he decides it's just another stupid human trick. :roflmao:

MsV,
This "ice cube" is an artificial one that is made for sprucing up drinks and has a sealed battery and switch and can light up or flash. I have thought about using a real ice cube but he has shyed away from cold things in the past. We played a little with it tonight but he did not push it around as much. He did, however, manipulate it more than yesterday so I will continue to attempt to see if he will teach me the proper way to play ice cube air hockey.

Man I want an octopus again....

Man I want an octopus again....

... and you are making me reconsider my "seahorse tank":grin:

Just some shots of Octane dressed in white. Note that the eyespot is barely visable. If he is upset, it turns very deep blue and holds with the thoughts that the bright color markings have to do with threatening behavior. Again, note that these photos are taken about 4 seconds apart.

OK, so bats are not a natural sea creature but I can't help thinking Octane is mimicing one when he does his flat against the wall trick. He certainly looks as much like a bat as a "Mimic" looks like a sea snake.

Can you tell I am avoiding some techincal reading I need to do tonight? One last set of Octane photos showing more of his camo looks. He is not really making much of an effort to hide here but the colors came out interestingly enough to post the shots.

Octane has not been eating well for a couple of days and is often in drab grey coloration. He will still show color and skin changes but the dull grey is new and worries me. He has also taken to sleeping on the tank wall rather than in a den and it seems I recall this as being observation reported in aging octos not long before the end. Two nights ago he was flashing like a cuttle fish. I went to get the camera but he stopped once I came over to the tank, I hope I am just a paranoid keeper and he was just trying to get my attention.

Two little interesting things this week. There is a live shrimp (we brought back a dozen or so from our Charleston trip) in the tank with Octane and he has ignored it for over a week even though it has touched his arm and he has scared it out of the substrate several times. He does not seem to be afraid of it and has eaten them in the past. I was giving Octane his nightly massage a couple of nights ago and the silly shrimp swam up to my hand to see what was going on :grin: I may just have to do a mantis this year (hands out of the tank though).

Tonight I was doing a water change and stirring up the substate and Octane litterly jumped on my hand. He did not bite and the contact was very brief but he was making a point to tell me he did not like my actions. He has zipped over to my hand before when I was cleaning but never quite like this. Everytime he reacts, I picture Bills hand after Ollie tried to express the same dislike (or I am assuming Nancy's octo was sending the same message) and feel that I am doomed to experience a beak eventually.

Woooo... I would so freak out if Kalypso jumped on my hand.

Surprisingly, it did not bother me at all and I did not even jump. The contact was very brief and the intent was very clear - STOP MUCKING WITH MY HOUSE!. It was actually quite interesting but I may not have thought so if he stuck (waiting to be bitten might have been a bit much as I do not identify with that human guinea pig fellow that Dale entertained a month or so ago). 'Tane has attempted to drag a finger under his webbing a couple of times but is not insistent when I decline to be sampled. He comes to the corner to be massaged every night and seems to prolong the attention by leaving and returning over and over again and then finally sitting still for a good 30 seconds or so. If I think he doesn't want any more attention or I have something to do and start to close the lid, sometimes he hurries back up to the corner as if to say, "not yet". All human interpretations of course but even Neal agrees that he notices me specifically and approaches me without encouragement.

Octane's behavior is very similar to Ollie's (my bimac of a few years ago). When she wanted me to come, she'd sucker on to a certain place on the front glass. I'd see here and come play with her and pet her on the head (head massage, as D calls it). In fact, Ollie had a little ritual where she would slowly swim around my hand and touch me with one sucker. Then she'd work her way back, and stick up her head. She kept coming back for more. It was usually me who had to break it off - I got tired before she did. But I always tried to remember that touching a friendly octopus is something very few people ever get to do.

Nancy

Nancy,
Where Octane does not circle, the behavior is similar in that he slides up and down and back and forth on the tank wall. I have found that if I just dangle my fingers in "our corner" he will slide up underneath them until my fingers are positioned where he wants his massage (usually just below the eyes, but sometimes on the mantle). I also find that if I put multiple fingers in the tank, he will sometimes reach up and touch the one not petting him. Interesting that the behavior is so similar.

When are you getting another? I know you and Bill have been thinking about it but I see no new journal.

Anyone reading the cephs on eBay thread I started for ceph stuff (not live) found there may have noted my last post:sagrin: was for a 50 gallon tank with connecting tubes. This tank is now in residence and its use being debated. It will be an octo tank but I have mixed emotions about moving Octane.

Behind the tank you can just make out a sump that is connected to a well cycled tank (several years but with bottom substrate only a few months old) that was intended for seahorses. My decision is to break down the 37 gallon (that we were sold as and believed to be a 45 until doing the math recently) and use the live rock and substrate to set up and quick cycle this tank. In addition to the LR in the old tank, I have a largish piece of LR in its sump and another in 'Tane's current sump that I can add to the new tank so I should be good there and can steal from Octane's tank if need be. There is some octoproofing necessary but it should be quite easy since the top is flat with simple cutouts. There is a hood with FW lighting that we think we can modify so that it can be easily raised (the original design is not maintenance friendly and requires full hood removal just to feed). We are working out where to install a couple of overflows and returns as well as looking for a new skimmer but I think we can have it safe in less than a month. If Octane still appears healthy, I will make the transfer but his age is a concern. He needs a larger tank for both water (I fight nitrates in his current tank) and for swimming room but if he becomes frail or the tank does not hold cycle I will not move him.

:confused: How does one go about moving an adult octo? I don't want to use my hands for the obvious bite concerns as well as not wanting him to become afraid of my hand but I am not sure how to go about catching him and I don't think I could coax him into a bucket.

very cool! I'd be a bit worried that the interconnects could fail in an earthquake, but that's 'cause I live in California... Is this the acrylic you were concerned about in the other thread, or is it glass? I predict amusing behavior as the octo develops habits for traversing between the sides... I wonder if it would consider it mean if you feed it on the other half from where its den is....

Monty,
Yes, this is acrylic and I am pretty sure it was a fresh water tank. There is a residue that could be buffer but the scratches are minmal and I am not going to buffet (can't get tickets anymore ). I don't believe the prior owners are available for comment but I might try asking the seller if they would mind asking.

Because it is acrylic, the tubes should not be a problem since the "gluing" process actually melts the material and proper seams are as strong as the solid material (or so the literature explains and proper is a key word). Acrylics don't tend spring leaks, ever, they just scratch too easily but are still my choice because of the ease of modification, error correction and low failure rate.

I am almost sure 'Tane will use the tubes and they are much larger than I expected so I am hoping he will learn their location and be able to swim the length of the tank. I will put a couple of the Hydor water mover pumps facing in opposite directions, one on each tube to move the water between the sections. The tank price was super and we can use some of the stuff from the other tank but we still have to spend several hundred more dollars to get it ready.

Not the best example and you will have to watch closely to see it but here is a video of Octane doing the Cuttlefish Flash

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/th_Flashing.jpg (http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o6/dwhatley/Octopus/Octane/?action=view&current=Flashing.flv)

Moving any aquarium inhabitants just use lots of patience, and trickery always helps too. How big is Octane? A gentle hand move into a bucket or container with maybe some food in it , you could put the container in a couple of days early and feed there so Tane can learn not to be afraid of it then when the time comes just lift it out .

Octane is one of my favorite octopuses - he has such sturdy arms!

Nancy

How thick is the acrylic? Just curious because I used to hate acrylic due to having to drain and buff a 350 gallon reef just to get rid of a scratch is a serious pain in the butt.....HOWEVER, I have since grown to LOVE acrylic due to how easily i can take out scratches without draining the tank at all.....

Algae Free makes a scratch removal kit, EVERCLEAR , which is basically a type of rubber "sandpaper" that you attatch to either one of their magnets(rated to the thickness of the acrylic) or the appropriate sized Magnavore. Basically, you start at 1500 grit and work your way down (step by step) to 6000. This is for DEEP scratches on the inside of the aquarium, and I usually take about 1/2 hour per sq.ft. on these areas.... However, on light scratch areas , it usually covers 2-3 sq.ft. per 1/2 hour. The best part is you can do 1/2-1 full hour a day, and(depending on the size) have it done in a fairly short time (while getting a little arm workout!) and not have to rush around while you have an empty tank needing buffing and its inhabitants in a holding area(my customers love this)

There is also a hand kit for the exterior, which is basically the same thing, except the pads are made with the rubber material on both sides, whereas the magnet kit has the rubber on one side and the other being more cottony so that you can affix it to the magnet. The exterior kit also comes with a little stopwatch, wax pencil(for marking heavy scratches),a chart to corallate to the marks you made with the wax pencil, and a cotton polishing/finishing pad.

Sorry , not trying to sell a product, but this changed my outlook on Acrylic aquariums forever. Anyways, you can order all of this either at your LRFS(Local Respectable Fish Store) or at algaefree.com
:notworth::notworth::notworth:

This is one of my favorite video's I've seen of a hummelincki doing that. VERY dramatic. http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m95/goodwin9/th_Clydefeeding.jpg (http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m95/goodwin9/?action=view&current=Clydefeeding.flv)

Did I mention I miss Tuvalu?

Octane looks MUCH bigger than either of my hummelincki's were. Stout.

Sweet

AquaForce,

I won't have a glass tank because of the ease of modification and absence of leak problems associated with the acrylic but being able to restore the internal scratches would be terrific. I have almost no outside scratching (the insides are an opposite story) but bought a kit for a deep scratch I accomplished several years ago when I almost pulled a 4' tall tank over on top of myself.

I'll try the "inside the tank with the magnent" idea when I move Octane. I have a scratch removal kit (from the above problem) but have been afraid to use it with the critters in the tank (especial an octo). All the reading I could find on the idea suggest the acrylic dust does not cause a problem but since I am hoping to move him anyway, this would be ideal timing. The new tank has minor scratches but not worth buffing. An advantage of the new split tank though will be that if I need to buff, I should be able to close off half and run a filter while I am buffing without effecting the other half. From what I can tell, the material they use is no different from the kit I have and I have a different brand of magnet. I may try it on some nasty scratches I have on my 140 as there is only one fish and I am less afraid of harming the gills because of the water volume. If that is ineffective, I may spring for the design that fits properly.

Thanks!

AM,
WOW super video! I have not seen Octane maintain the flashing for that long but the effect is the same and just makes you do a double take when you see it. I wonder if other species do this as well. It is interesting that Octane never plays tug-of-war with a feeding stick but Neal uses a bamboo skewer instead of the nylon (I just use my fingers :razz:)

I wonder why we don't seek the keeper on TONMO.

Did I mention I miss Tuvalu?


I will have a rough time when I lose him. No one else seems to have one as large as Octane so I am hoping he is actually younger than his size suggests. Trapper was also very large for a Merc and are from a similar area (FL Keys).

He eats well and sheds often and we just enjoy him day to day, knowing that the time may be limited.

I saw Olorin do the flashy thing once.

"Octane looks MUCH bigger than either of my hummelincki's were. Stout."

Seconded. I've been assuming it's because Oliver is still pretty young, but s/he's much leggier than Octane - dead ringer otherwise, though.

Wow, great vid, though! Octane really is a fantastic animal!

MsV,
Unfortunately that super vid is not Octane :oops: but his flashing is just as dramatic inspite of my less obvious posting (just not quick enough with the camera).

So far none of the other Hummelincki are as chuncky as 'Tane and it may have to do with where he was born and the food supply available when tiny (I am hoping this is the case since it would make him younger than his size would suggest).

I asked Mucktopus about size at one point and she agreed with other readings that same species octos vary greatly in size and that food supply is thought to be one of the factors. The more I think on it though, I suspect food is a minor factor since octos from the same area are sized differently (Muctopus' paper on mating showed this in that the males looked for larger females and mentions small males but the short life span would suggest that aging was not the reason for size differences). I don't think it is solely genetics either from my one experience with the Mercs. Mom was very large, her children much smaller BUT all similar in size and my one surviving tank bred is smaller yet. Many fish will "size" down to the container in the aquarium world but this would not explain the size differences in the wild. :confused:

I moved the GPO questions to their own thread in "Octopus Care" in the hope of making them more likely to get attention from the experts.

Please continue that discussion here: http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13372

Monty,
Whew! I thought I was losing it! I suggested she post in ID requests for a bit more attention and then saw that the post was not really in Octane's journal like I thought so I removed the suggestion then decided I was having an sensence moment!

:sagrin:
Oops, sorry, didn't mean to be a minion of chaos.:sagrin:

Monty,
Whew! I thought I was losing it! I suggested she post in ID requests for a bit more attention and then saw that the post was not really in Octane's journal like I thought so I edited the not and removed the suggestion then decided I was having an sensence moment!

Oops, sorry, didn't mean to be a minion of chaos.