edit added by Monty: AM said below:


Since it's apparently too late for me to edit and add a disclaimer to the beginning of this thread, can a moderator do it for me? I want anyone who reads it in the future to know this isn't suggested because it isn't neccessarily safe or practical for octopus keeping.

Long story short, I'm in charge of the display tank at the vet clinic I work at. My boss wanted to order some stuff, as he said "whatever will make the tank more interesting." I had let the availability decide for me, but just as I thought it wasn't meant to happen, Ta-dah! Another "Indo-Pacific" octopus was available.

So, considering Domboski's journal with his 2 aculeatus, and a number of other threads on other forums about mixed octo/fish tanks I took the plunge. I know it's not ideal in the eyes of some folks, but oh well, what can you do?

After a 24-hour delay in "priority overnight shipping"... making it a 48 hour trip, I received a beautiful, fully intact A. aculeatus from LiveAquaria. So far it doesn't seem that the long trip was too hard on the octopus.

The other occupants of the display tank at work are; 2 red firefish, 1 tiny percula clown, 1 gold-stripe maroon clown (considering banishing it), 1 yellow watchman goby, 1 six-line wrasse, various serpent/brittle stars, hermits, snails, and an unfortunate emerald crab.
In the way of corals, there are palythoas, a huge sinularia, a bubble coral, a field of green star polyps, kenya tree, finger leather, xenia, and (dun dunt duhhhh) a long-tentacle anemone.

Now, before you crap your pants, the anemone is on the far left side of the tank, and the bubble coral is on the far right side of the tank. They are both pretty small, about the size of a baseball. I will be observing them closely to make sure our new octopus is bright enough to avoid them, and if not, they will become store credit at the LFS. Considering they are things the creature would encounter in the wild, I am thinking it will most likely avoid them. There is a LOT of open space in between them, and lots of other areas for the octopus to hide and roam without contact with these two potential threats.

I have a 30 gallon sump/refugium that includes a skimmer underneath. I octo-proofed the overflow drain by attaching an 8-inch piece of pvc drilled with dozens...many many dozens of 1/8th inch holes, and an end cap. The return pump is a mag 7, and I have a Maxi-Jet 1200 to supliment the circulation in the tank. I'm not happy with the amount of circulation as is, so I'm going to invest in some Hydor flo-deflectors and another Maxi-Jet.


The tank is a bowfront 72 gallon, 102 gallons total water volume. The fish, if you're not familiar with them, are all relatively small being under 4 inches long, and are peaceful, minus the GSM clown but she only mistreats the poor "Nemo" if he comes too close to her home. There is a deep sand bed, 3-6 inches varying from area to area, as the goby's a digger, and the GSM clown is showing nesting behavior fanning sand everywhere with her tail. 100lbs sand total, crushed limestone. 60lbs live rock in the display, 10lbs in the refugium, probably add some more to the display to create more nooks and cranny's for the 'pus to play in.

good luck.sounds like you have your hands full with that tank and being a tech.

Ah, it's a great excuse to get overtime.

Pics tomorrow.

right on.

:welcome: :octopus:

Welcome to the new octopus! It's your octopus, even if it isn't in your home.
It will be interesting to see how this works out - hope you'll do a journal.

It would be nice if this octopus had a name, but I'll enter it in the List of Our Octopses and you can decide. The only thing you didn't mention was how large it is.

Nancy

I hope both you and Dom REPORT the positives and negatives on each of the critters as you observe interaction. Sometime this year we will build out another tank and strip down the 140 to convert it for an octo. I would like to be able to leave some of the corals (the two fish - mandarin and puffer - and my brain will be moved for sure) and leave in the Hydor what-ya-ma-call-its. Most of my corals are likely to be safe for the octo but much of my interest is in how well the corals themselves fair.

My boss has kind of thought about letting me start a tank at the office but I think it is more pipe dream than anything else. One of my wonderful team members is Vegan and might get uncomfortable with what animals eat so if I did start even a nano, it would likely be just soft corals (and hopefully he won't be upset with the Cyclop-eeze being engineered "bugs").

Nancy, this octo is about a foot long, from mantle tip to arm tips, maybe a little bit shorter. Mantle is about an inch long, so an adult most likely. I was hoping for a smaller one, but hey, an octopus is great no matter what.

I will be observing the tank closely. If there are any signs of problems with the stingy creatures they will be exhiled. I will keep as much of a journal on this octo as I did the ones at home, of course I won't be able to observe quite as much. This makes me really miss having one at home though!

The receptionists say our new octos name is "Kharma". So there ya go Nancy.

No activity today, and our new friend has moved to another hiding spot so I have NO IDEA where it's at. There are so many different possibilties. I tried to get some tank shots but the camera at the clinic isn't that great. A co-worker is going to bring her Canon Powershot to work Monday (she takes awesome pictures) so I'll have at least tank shots for the thread then.

Some other things about the tank:

Lighting schedule is actinics 7am-6pm, daylight 10,000K runs from 10am-3pm. I recently traded power compacts for T-5's, and there was a hair algae bloom. It's receding since I added the timers and shortened the bright daylight cycle.

Also, a fish I forgot, a Yellow Tang. And some brilliant green/blue/purple rhodactis mushrooms.

I got a shipment of fiddlers today, threw in 2 large males with claws clipped. I generally don't work weekends, but I'm donating a 30 gallon setup to use as a future hospital/quarantine tank for any future fish additions so I'll be checking it out tomorrow.

I thought the emerald crab had disappeared, but I found it hiding underneath the anemone, didn't move all day. Perhaps it is aware of the protective abilities of the anemone? When I deliver the tank tomorrow morning I hope to find fiddler remains.

On another note, I have a new LFS about 10 minutes away from me (Hooray, most of them are at least 30 minutes away) and to show my support I talked to them about ordering an octo, and specificly stated I was not interested in Zebras, Mimics, Wonderpus, or Blue-Rings and let them know why.

good stuff,looking forward to your next post.

I got a shipment of fiddlers today, threw in 2 large males with claws clipped. I generally don't work weekends, but I'm donating a 30 gallon setup to use as a future hospital/quarantine tank for any future fish additions so I'll be checking it out tomorrow.

Just a little question, why clip the fiddler claws? Aren't the big claws all for show and have no real strength at all in them? I would think an octo could get an extra treat out of the meat in there.

Just a little question, why clip the fiddler claws? Aren't the big claws all for show and have no real strength at all in them? I would think an octo could get an extra treat out of the meat in there.

They can still pinch with their claws. You only have to clip on side of the claw so it is disabled, the rest of the claw is intact.

Just a little question, why clip the fiddler claws? Aren't the big claws all for show and have no real strength at all in them? I would think an octo could get an extra treat out of the meat in there.

I got pinched by a nickel sized fiddler one time. I don't care to get pinched by one again. They are STRONG! Wouldn't want a squishy octo to have to endure that.

NecroChildK,
Next time you are around an adult male fiddler, allow it to grab your finger. It only takes one time to decide you don't want to leave the claw functional. They may not have a lot of crushing power but the tips are very sharp!

Since it's apparently too late for me to edit and add a disclaimer to the beginning of this thread, can a moderator do it for me? I want anyone who reads it in the future to know this isn't suggested because it isn't neccessarily safe or practical for octopus keeping.

I didn't want to put words in your mouth, so I just added that post to the front of your first post, is that OK? We can change it to whatever you want... although I thought you could always edit your posts, although I'm not sure you can change the thread title...

I didn't want to put words in your mouth, so I just added that post to the front of your first post, is that OK? We can change it to whatever you want... although I thought you could always edit your posts, although I'm not sure you can change the thread title...

Thanks.

Well, checked in on the tank today while I delivered the quarantine tank. One fiddler down... all I could find was a detached giant claw. There is a new hole underneath a rock that wasn't there yesterday, about 6 inches away from the crab claw. Got some tank pictures as my girlfriend bought a Canon Powershot G9 last night (AWESOME camera by the way).

NecroChildK,
Next time you are around an adult male fiddler, allow it to grab your finger. It only takes one time to decide you don't want to leave the claw functional. They may not have a lot of crushing power but the tips are very sharp!

lol I've kept a number of fiddlers as pets, but they're so skittish none ever pinched me, they just ran away. Funny thing is, I got a rainbow land crab once and one of the male fiddlers thought he could intimidate it out of his spot. XD Needless to say, he wasn't successful. The rainbow ignored him for a long while until the fiddler finally got on top to wave his claw around and act big, then the rainbow grabbed him lightly and tossed him halfway across the terrarium. After that, the fiddler got up, climbed to the top of the tank and did a victory dance for his lady. Crabs are so fun and silly.

If "rainbows" are the same as "patriot" crabs I've kept some in a freshwater tank before. About tennis ball size, colored red, white, and blue? I couldn't keep them in the tank. They constantly climbed out and I would find them behind furniture, or just hanging out on top of the tank filter. They seriously intimidated me! Like a large tarantula with pinchers. Very bold attitudes.

If "rainbows" are the same as "patriot" crabs I've kept some in a freshwater tank before. About tennis ball size, colored red, white, and blue? I couldn't keep them in the tank. They constantly climbed out and I would find them behind furniture, or just hanging out on top of the tank filter. They seriously intimidated me! Like a large tarantula with pinchers. Very bold attitudes.

Not quite, they're both land crabs and from what I see of the patriot crab in pictures, they're pretty close in looks, so they might be closely related. But rainbow land crab also mooncrab or Halloween crab is black with orange spots behind the eyestalks, bright orange legs and underbelly and rich purple claws.

This was my boy, Spooky.
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/6862/spookyqg3.jpg

Ah wait, reading a little on t he patriot crab, seems it's an aquatic species? They're probably not that close then. Rainbow land crabs spend the vast majority of their lives on land, wetting their gills in puddles and such and only go to the water to mate.

Edit: And now I'm really confusing myself. Some pages say it's the same crab, but the pictures I find don't look that much like the Rainbow land crabs that I've seen and most look submerged in water in the images. They might just be the same damn thing, the breed has a ton of names for it.

lol And if they ARE the same thing, well it's no wonder they kept climbing out! XD They were probably thinking "This person is crazy if they think we're gonna stay in all that water!"

No, after looking at that picture they aren't the same. Those look pretty neat though.

The Patriots were about 4 inches wide.

Patriot crabs are one of my favorites. I've thought about setting up a FW tank just so I could keep one (and then I'm sure I would get very into it, since all the fish are less than $5 XD).

The Canon G9 is a good camera. I look forward to your pictures with it.

Looks like the octopus has moved into the yellow watchman gobies home. There are several snail shells piled up just inside the space between two rocks where the yellow watchman goby had been residing. The YW goby now resides underneath the rock where the anemone is, along with the emerald crab.

Another fiddler crab down, found only the large claw and the top of its carapice(sp?). I'm hoping the octopus will become confident and show itself during business hours, but if not, at least I'm seeing obvious signs of activity and appetite. I promise pictures of at least the tank before the end of the day.

Full tank shot
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/thehippydaledo/fishtank019.jpg
Left half
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/thehippydaledo/fishtank032.jpg
Right half - the octos den is underneath the rhodactis mushrooms, bottom right side.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/thehippydaledo/fishtank027.jpg

Left side view
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/thehippydaledo/fishtank045.jpg
Right side view
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/thehippydaledo/fishtank046.jpg

Yellow Watchman Goby
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/thehippydaledo/fishtank052.jpg

nice tank.

It's okay. Since the tops are taped down I was lazy and put the topoff water in the refugium and it stirred up a bunch of junk. It's usually not hazy like that.

i got my octopus from live aquaria and it turned out to be nocturnal, so this might be the case with yours.

Well, this one is definitely an A. aculeatus and from all I've read and watched they seem to be very day-active. Of course some octos are more outgoing and bold than others, so it might very well just be shy and waiting for the lobby to quieten down, tank activity to cease after lights out (fish activity/lights might be too bright), or already old and nesting (doubtful as of now). Without doubt the shipping issue is likely to have caused some stress that the animal is hopefully recouperating from. Time will tell. It would be unfortunate for it to turn out to be a $60 phantom resident that none of the clients or staff will get to enjoy observing, but unlike them, I'm quite aware of the gambles involved in octopus keeping. I'm happy just to know it survived the shipping ordeal and to see the clues left behind from each night before, but I'd like to get a few pictures between now and the innevitable end. I would certainly prefer it not to be nocturnal so that I don't look like a jerk blowing my bosses money on the amazing invisible octopus.

I'm glad it's hiding a lot, considering the luck I had with my last 2 octos which were VERY active during daylight hours. This to me seems more like the behavior of a healthy octopus. I'm going to readjust the timers so that the lights don't come on until about 30 minutes after I get there in the morning. The lights in the lobby are on 24/7 so it's never completely dark and I see obvious signs of octo activity in several spots scattered across the bottom/front center open sandy area of the tank. A fiddler claw here, a crab leg there, a carapace over there, etc.

Hopefully it is A. Aculeatus, but as you can see by my journal of Fecha i felt it was A. Aculeatus as well and so did others, hopefully mine was an exception, but if it helps, mine comes out between 11pm and 6 30 am. If you do see it check if it has white spots on its body, since these seem to be very characteristic of O. luteus (what i have). I will hopefully post pics of mine later, so you can compare them.

Still no activity to report other than more crab pieces. There was a Kenya Tree frag on a tiny rock in the lower center area of the tank. It disappeared. Low and behold it is now another piece of the octos den decorations.

Woohoo! So I stuck a piece of krill on a skewer and stuck it in the octopus' den. Out shot some arms, grabbed the stick and the krill. Waited a few moments, and stuck another piece in, and again, out shot arms and grabbed the krill. Moved some of the shells around a little bit with the skewer, and now the octopus is sitting at the entrance of its den with its eyes poking out, occasionally rearranging the shells to its liking.

I handed it a fiddler and now it's munching down.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/thehippydaledo/th_MVI_4918.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/thehippydaledo/?action=view&current=MVI_4918.flv)

Didn't realize how dark the video was. Sorry!

I definitely wasn't expecting the octopus to make any appearances with all the lights on (216 watts worth w/daylight 10,000k's) but I saw everyone standing around the tank and took a look, and it was sitting at the entrance finishing off its crab lunch, blowing pieces out.

I'm hoping handing it a crab this morning set up the idea that my presence equals food.

One week and all is well. Everyone's accounted for. As in, no fish missing. Even our large emerald crab is still intact, although he spends a lot of time on the rock with the anemone now (I really do wonder if he realizes the protective ability of the anemone). After lunch today I did some tank maintenance, removed some leftover crab pieces. I had dropped a large fiddler in this morning and it died sometime after, so I skewered it and wiggled it around in the octo den doorway. He came about halfway out, grabbed it, and then blew it back out at me. I offered him a piece of krill, and he held on to it for a while, never got it back, so I think he ate it. I turned off the lights to see if he would be more comfortable and a few minutes later after peeking out of a crack a couple of inches back into his den, he came all the way out and we played peek-a-boo for a few minutes. I backed away from the tank and squatted down low, he came further out and raised his eyes way up. I proceeded towards the tank slowly and he slowly backed into his den. We did this a few times and then he decided he'd had enough and started putting his shells and tiny rocks back in place.

During our little interaction the fish would swim in between the octopus and I, and after realizing they weren't getting any food they would turn around, check out the octopus for a few seconds and swim away. The octopus seemed comfortable with the presence of the fish, or at least it didn't retreat or react in any other way that I could tell. They didn't seem interested in harassing him either, just curious like they were thinking "What in the world is that? Oh...".

I wish I could get a good picture but every time he comes out, he mostly stays solid black, sometimes black with white/yellow mottling, and I'm usually too excited to see him to even think about the camera until the moment has passed. Whenever I point him out to my co-workers all they seem to see is a black blob until he whips out some arms. I love his eyes. He always has a devilish look, like pointy horns over his eyes.

so has he turned out to be diurnal or nocturnal?

so has he turned out to be diurnal or nocturnal?

Well, considering it's not active during the day yet (at least when anyone's looking), and it's apparently hunting crabs at night, I suppose it's nocturnal. Then again, given some time, it might get brave enough to come out and be active during the day. This is why I'm offering it food on a stick, so maybe it will get the association of my presence and food. It did briefly come all the way out of its den, just didn't go very far from the opening. I'm being careful not to disturb any rocks, but I do use the stick to move the first few shells out of the way so I can fit the krill into the hole. Within a minute or two the octopus always pops its head out and sits there to see what's going on. The lighting is my first guess as to why it might not be too sociable, so I have set the timer to turn the lights on about an hour after we open, so maybe when I get there in the morning I can have a chance at seeing some action. I can't watch the tank all day as it's in the lobby up front, and my duties keep me in the treatment and kennel area.

Since I find giant fiddler claws all over the tank I know it's not just staying in its den all the time, which is what I was afraid of at first considering the gamble of getting a possibly senescent female octopus. I've watched the fish to see if they are tricking me by carrying the claws around and I haven't seen any of them pay any attention to them, so I'm 99% sure the octopus is disarming them wherever it finds them and taking the rest back to its lair.

Apparently the timer turns the lights off before we close at 6. I haven't changed them because I figured it would create more opportunity for someone to see the octopus.

This morning they're telling me that they heard a woman screaming in the lobby last night. Turns out she saw our 'pus. Wish I'd been here.

:lol: thats great.

:lol::grin::bonk::silenced::lol:

All fish still alive and no signs of any stress among them. Kharma remains secretive, but today I took some shrimp to work and offered that and she took it. It was nice to reassure my coworkers there still really is an octopus in there! Its arms shot out and grabbed the stick. I gently poked at an arm with a finger and it held me for a second, then retreated into the hole, still clamped down on the stick. I held the other end for about 10 minutes, and it held tight the whole time. I left it to its shrimp and turned the lights out. Later I found the tail of the shrimp across the tank in the anemone, so I don't know how much the octopus ate, or how the shrimp ended up there. Likely discarded by the octopus and taken to the anemone by the gold striped maroon clown. I have a hard time offering foods directly to the octopus because the serpent stars and red brittle star have taken up residence in the rocks directly above the octopuses den.

Locating the serpents usually helps me find a missing Merc ;>)

Well I don't believe this octopus is ever going to become sociable. There's the bright lighting to consider as well as the very active fish, perhaps the activity in the lobby also. I put a couple of fiddler crabs in last week, and they are still alive. I even shoved one of them into the den and the octopus had no desire to mess with it. It will still play a little tug-o-war with me when I put a stick near the den, but discards any food I offer. Considering the apparent lack of appetite and activity, I'm assuming it is a female, and likely has eggs.

RIP

RIP Kharma :angelpus: Any idea of the cause?

RIP Kharma ,, I am so sorry AM.... :cry:

RIP Kharma :angelpus: Any idea of the cause?

I don't know really, but it had not eaten anything in about 2 weeks so I'm assuming it had become senescent. The crabs I had put in there at least 2 weeks ago are still in there, alive. Every time I offered shrimp or krill it would take them, but discard them a few minutes later. At first when I would play tug-o-war with it, it would at least come all the way out of its hole (not very far) but the past few times all I got was an arm or two sticking out from the rocks, very reclusive. It was slumped over a rock in front of its den this morning when I got to work and while the fish were curious about it, none of them were picking at it. Judging by the appearance and lack of smell, I don't believe it had been dead long. I didn't pull the rock out to determine if there are any eggs or not but it wouldn't surprise me if there are.

RIP kharma.Sorry dude.