hello everyone on TONMO!!!!!i was just wondering why the some of the smaller species need 55 intead of like 20 or 30 and how i could make it so they couldnt get out of there tanks thanks,nemo135:lol:

Hi and welcome to TONMO.com!:welcome:

You don't have to have a 55 gallon tank for a dwarf octopus, such as O. mercatoris. (However, these are nocturnal). These can live in a 30 gallon tank. Other members have had - and do have - other species of dwarfs, but it's just because their local fish stores happened to be carrying them at the time.

It's not so hard to make the tank escape proof. If you have a smaller tank, you most likely will not have a sump (smaller tank for your filtration equipment). You can make a lid out of acrylic or plastic screen, filling in any small openings with other materials such as duct tape. Look at the Tank Talk forum for examples.

Nancy

Hi and welcome to TONMO.com!:welcome:

You don't have to have a 55 gallon tank for a dwarf octopus, such as O. mercatoris. (However, these are nocturnal). These can live in a 30 gallon tank. Other members have had - and do have - other species of dwarfs, but it's just because their local fish stores happened to be carrying them at the time.

It's not so hard to make the tank escape proof. If you have a smaller tank, you most likely will not have a sump (smaller tank for your filtration equipment). You can make a lid out of acrylic or plastic screen, filling in any small openings with other materials such as duct tape. Look at the Tank Talk forum for examples.

Nancy
how big is a dwarf octopus???

and would a 24 gallon aquapod work?????

The aquapod will be fine, but you need to close off any areas that the octopus could get into. I can't remember exactly how big they get; I think mantle size about an inch or inch and a half full grown.

whats the biggest species thet could fit in a 55???

probably a bimaculoid or A. Aculeatus, im sure there are others though.

:welcome: Nemo135! Yeah, bimacs do well in 55 gallons, and I think that's OK for briareus as well. 55 would be too small for vulgaris, but for most other octos people see commonly, 55gal is fine. Some dwarf species can do well in smaller tanks, although one of the problems is that IDing these animals is tough, so it's not uncommon for a "dwarf" to turn out to grow a lot. I'm not sure if we've established that aculeatus needs 55 gallons, but experience has shown that it's better safe than sorry usually.

There are two main reasons why larger tanks are recommended for cephs: space and water quality. Some cephs grow rather large, and need space to jet around... large bimacs in smaller tanks run into walls a lot. The main issue, though, is that cephs produce a lot of waste. In a small tank, the biofiltration may not be able to keep up with the ammonia output of a ceph at all, and even if it can, there's far less margin for error if anything goes wrong, so it's very common for the water quality to get bad so rapidly that the ceph dies before the owner even realizes there is a problem. A tank with a lot of water volume changes more slowly, so it's less likely the ceph will die before a correction can be made. Of course, sumps and extra filtration can help with this, but it's generally been found that the survival rates of octos in large tanks is a lot higher.

ok sounds good what species do you suggest for a 55 gallon??:bugout:

probably a Bimac since they are diurnal, and more commonly tank raised, though you will need to keep the water in the low 70's for them.

probably a Bimac since they are diurnal, and more commonly tank raised, though you will need to keep the water in the low 70's for them.diurnal??????and how could i keep the water in the low 70's????

Diurnal, opposite of nocturnal. Day active.

A chiller is the most effective way to keep water temperature low.

ohhh could i just blow a fan over the top of the tank and what do they eat where could i buy it and how much$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yes, you can also do evaporative cooling. They will eat almost anything. Crustaceans (snails, hermits, fiddlers, and the like) are best for them. You can check the octopus availability thread at the top of this forum for online sources, or look around locally. You can usually special order an octopus in. When you do that you are rarely guaranteed the species that is listed, if the supplier decides to take a stab at IDing it at all. You need to have the tank running for 3+ months before you put your octopus in to make sure all the parameters are stable. The setup should run you about $1000 new, if you look around for used make sure no copper based medications were used in the tank because the copper will leach onto the glass, rock, and sand. If you decide to do a chiller, it will probably run you $250-500. The octopus shouldn't cost more than $80.

Hope I helped :)

i know its kind of a dumb question but...........what makes it cost so much,if you could name what i didnt that would be great. . . . a tank filter and lights and stand 180-220$a skimmer about 160$ octopus from 40-80$ and live rock?????????????thats all i know

and how easy is it they ink??????

You can make a setup cheaper than $1000 but it just depends on the equipment you select. New or used, where you get the live rock, etc. If you have a local marine aquarium society you can get all the equipment and live rock you need much cheaper than buying it new at a store. Quality equipment is going to cost a lot of money. A good skimmer can cost $200+ brand new. Live rock can be ridiculously expensive at $7 or more per pound... 1-2 pounds per gallon of water. If you buy a well designed sump that can set you back another $200-$400, or you can build one MUCH cheaper.

Every octopus personality is different. Some will never ink and some will be shy/skiddish and ink often. The best way to deal with it is dim lighting and slow movement around the tank until the octopus adjusts to its surroundings.

whats a sump???

A sump is another area for your tanks water to drain to, and then be returned with a pump. It adds to the overall water capacity of the system. In other words, a 30 gallon sump underneath a 75 gallon makes for a 105 gallon system. You can also run a skimmer, heater, or whatever other equipment will fit in the sump, so you don't have to have it all hanging on your tank. Makes it look much nicer, and makes it a lot easier to make a nicely sealed lid. This would also be an ideal place to run a fan to cool the water, since you aren't going to get a very good breeze over a tank with a sealed lid. A lot of people also section off a part of the sump to use as a refugium. A refugium is ideally a "refuge" for things that would be eaten in the display, like copepods (basically tiny saltwater bugs) and in addition keep a sandbed, some liverock, and macroalgae. The point of that is the macroalgae absorbs the nutrients out of the water that would otherwise build up and become toxic to fish, or in this case, an octopus. Of course there is no way to completely stop that, which is the point of water changes, and even still, the macroalgae needs to be pruned occasionally, like weeds in a flower bed. Otherwise it will eventually die and release all those nutrients it has absorbed back into the water.

Here is a really good link for further explanation:

http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

thanks that helps SOOOO much!!!!!!thats probably what i'll end up doing:heee

Hi Nemo and :welcome:

I don't want to come out sounding totally discouraging, but it sounds to me as if you are a beginner aquarist???? If this is the case then maybe you need to look at keeping a "standard" marine tank first ....fish etc.... because octopus are typically difficult to keep and are usually recommended for advanced aquarists.................having said that.......kudos for asking first! So many people buy first and ask questions after their octopus has died!

I guess the key is research research and then more research :grin: and you are on the right track!

J

I agree with Jean that an octopus should only be kept by a knowledgeable aquarist. If you are very diligent and research a lot you should be able to keep an octopus even if you are a beginner. You just need to realize what you are getting yourself into and learn as much as you can before you jump into anything.

Just to temper a little what Jean said. My first marine aquarium was an Octo aquarium where I kept a Bimac. Before setting up the aquarium I did all the research (Many thanks to this website and the excellent content", made sure the tank was stable and well cycled, put some damsel fish in for a few months. After I was satisfied with my water quality I put in the Bimac. He lived for 9 months after which "SHE" laid her eggs and died. I considered this a success but with a sad, inevitable outcome. The point is, I did my homework, got second, third, fourth opinions, and had my water tested like crazy by people with lots of experience. BTW damsels are tough as hell, one survived the entire 9 months with the octo without becoming food. I also had a peppermint shrimp that survived the experience none the worse for the wear.

Yup, good suggestion. Make sure you know what you're getting into before you spend the money. A lot of people get octos and then something goes wrong and they come here looking for answers when it's already too late. You're doing a great job asking a lot of good questions. The best thing you can do is be patient and go slowly.

ok i plan to do alot of research before i get him and by the way it would probably be a bimac,one more thing what part of the ocean could you find octopi what about cocoa beach florida??????

An excellent place to find octopuses, if you are not a diver, is the intertidal zone. Octopuses occur in almost all parts of the world. There are definitely some at Coco beach. A good place to start is rocky areas where tide pools form. When the tide is low, look around in these pools that form, check all the nooks and crannys, you have to look very carefully and take your time, since octopuses are masters of disguise. Best of luck, and read, read, read! :wink:

ok thanks :old:

There was a thread on saltwaterfish.com about a guy that was "gigging" for Bimacs in La Jolla, California. He would wade around in shallow areas of the beach and stick his fingers in cracks between/under rocks and they would grab his fingers and then he could pull them out without hurting them. They are protected there though so he would turn them loose, but I thought that sounded like a pretty neat way to find them. You might want to check and make sure it isn't illegal to collect animals from the beach there.

If you go take a trip farther south, to the keys you could easily find briareus by snorkeling, or diving with a strong light. When the light hits the briareus they give off a greenish color that makes them easy to see. You wont find Bimacs though, because they are from the pacific ocean not the atlantic.

that would be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!where could i buy snorkling equipment

AM, I would no more put my fingers in a crack in the ocean rock than I would offer my hand to a hunting moray eel (and is what you would likely do "noodling" for octopus). First (well not quite the first) rule of diving is never put your hands into anything. There are, of course, other creatures that would find your fingers tempting (even crabs would not likely resist wiggling fingers and many are NOT the size of a mithrax) but the worst damage (because of the locking teeth on most types of morays) is from a critter that likes exactly the same abode as an octopus. Nope, I will leave both fresh and saltwater noodling:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&type=ultra&fr=vmn&p=noodling+video&rs=2&fr2=rs-top

to people who don't need ten fingers to type for a living.

Hey, I didn't say it was smart :) I've never found the idea of baiting large catfish with my fingers to be intelligent, and yeah, it would suck to snag something like an eel or a mantis shrimp. I didn't like the idea of letting my octopus get too good of a grip on my fingers in plain sight. All the same, I think it would be quite a thrill.

I've been pinched by nickel sized fiddlers and they are surprisingly stout little suckers. Wouldn't want to know what a baseball sized crab feels like.

I wasn't going to bring it up but ... as I recall you were not too fond of things that go bump in the murky water either :grin:

For sure. I always hated swimming in the muddy river or any of the local lakes when I was a kid. Getting toes nibbled by small fish was creepy enough, but bumping into large unseen things in the ocean was rather unsettling. In my head I kept hearing the dive shop guy telling me, "there's a lot of nurse sharks around this time of year".

i would never go noodling IN MY LIFE!!!!!!!that would be so scary:sink::confused::bugout:but ive always wanted to go scuba diving

In FL you are most likely to find the dwarf species O. Mercatoris and O. Joubini. If you catch a larger octo it might be a vulgaris, so be careful on the one you decide to take home.

Finding an octopus and catching one by hand are two very different things. It would be easy to damage the octopus while you were trying to capture it. Eight arms clinging to its den are hard to remove :bonk:. Also, you will need some kind of license (fishing or collecting) in order to remove it from its environment. How would you transport the animal back to your home?

oh i wouldnt take it home i would just love to watch them under the sea:old:

Ok then, good luck. :smile:

tom (a collector in the keys) usually has briareus available, if you look at the journal of "fluffy" on here you will see briareus are actually very good candidates for a pet. They can adapt to become pretty diurnal. Tom even offers trips in which you can go out with him and catch fish, and probably upon request octopuses, though it is probably quite pricey..

ya i can see how that would be pricey$$$$$$$$$$but i actually found a local dealer of a couple of species,(by the way im in alabama)but i go on vacation to florida,and tom may be someone to look into:P

anyway what would you suggest i feed a bimac?????and would a 10 gallon work for the food?????

Feed snails, hermits, shrimp, fiddlers, bivalves. Octos like crustaceans.

how often?????

You should feed at least once a day unless you have reason to do differently. I always leave some snails and hermits in the tank in case he gets hungry in between feedings.

ok i went to te saltwater fish store today and the guy said its almost impossible to keep octopus in there tanks,is that true??????? im kind of worried that i'll spend 1,000 bucks on the tank,filter,etc,and wont be able to keep them in there tanks:sink:

There are plenty of people on this website who have successfully kept octopus in their tanks. Also, there are many public aquariums who have also had octopus. Octopus are curious animals and have been known to escape from their tanks, but it is possible to octo-proof your aquarium.

The store probably doesn't know how to take proper care of the octopuses they receive. Or their supplier is bad at shipping them and they only last a couple days due to stress. It can also be the method they are caught in. Octopuses are just as easy to take care of as a reef, you just may need more filteration because of the large bioload. There are drawbacks and advantages to both but I think maintaining an octopus aquarium requires less attention than a reef, though you might pay more attention to it!

Octopuses are very difficult to care for, and the vast majority of people who've tried have failed. Most LFS staff are unaware that there is a community of people who've had somewhat better luck.

yea most lfs that i asked said they rather not order octos, or that i'd have to leave an insane deposit.

remember....duct tape is your friend! It may look ugly but it sure seals a lid to a tank!

J

ok thanks all:notworth:,so what tank size would you suggest for a dwarf???????:cyclops:

They shouldn't make you put down a deposit for more than the octo costs. Expect maybe for shipping, but that doesn't make much sense to me either.

???????:confused:

Dwarfs need no less than 20 gallons.

ok thanks

hey would someone with time on there hands post everything i'll need for a dwarf?????????

-at least a 20 gal tank
-at least 20lbs. of live rock (has been in tank for at least 3 months)
-live sand that has also been in the tank for at least 3 months
-cover to keep octo in
-a lot of red lights since dwarfs are nocturnal (so you can watch it at night)
-food (most people use fiddler crabs)
-skimmer (don't skimp on this, it's pretty important)
-power head for good flow (make sure intakes are covered well)
-duct tape (just in case since it is very useful)
Thats all i can think of for now, though i'm sure i left something out..

Nemo,
If you are serious about keeping a Mercatoris, you might read through my journals about my original mother, her offspring and my new babies ( http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10133). Simple has a good list but the Mercs really don't need duct tape or heavily sealed tanks. You DO need to lower the water about 2 inches and provide a cover but this should suffice for escape security. I have found that the inexpensive "skelter" filter/skimmer ($35 )works just fine for the smaller tank IF you replace the filteration and water weekly, add a bag of charcoal to the filter compartment and add an air stone to the skimmer chamber (I also use Poly-Filter instead of the standard filtration made for the unit).

Mine will only eat occassional fiddlers (and some of them won't eat them at all) so I feed them FROZEN Cyclop-eeze nightly as well as hand fed shore shrimp (they don't catch them well on their own). If you set up a 10:00 PM regular feeding schedule you should be able to interact with your night time creatures on a regular basis (I have one that resists this schedule but the other 4 now "see me coming" and come out nightly to be fed). You might be able to force this to an earlier time IF you make the room dark earlier, every night.

If my babies survive (and they are looking healthy) I will have some tank bred available about the time you have your tank ready - 3 months minimum, no short-cuts) if you start now.

wow thanks so much,is it really hard to raise baby octopi???that would be such an awesome expierience:bugout::notworth:and about the babys being ready in about three-four months thats AwEsOmE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i notice you said that you were going to get a bimac earlier in the post, but asked about a dwarf octo minimum tank requirements. my point is which one are you leaning too? bimacs get much bigger than dwarfs and need something as big as a 55 (earlier stated on this forum)

well im thinking about a reef,so its either a bimac with no reef or a dwarf with a reef and i pick dwarf and reef:neutral:

Dwarfs are less suited for reef environments than a Bimac would be. While Bimacs do not like bright lights, dwarfs hate all light. By putting one in a reef you are almost guaranteed to never see it until nighttime. Also, coral choice is limited with any ceph. There are sacrifices that have to be made if you want to keep an octopus. If you get a young, healthy octopus you should have an experience well worth the price.

I guess you would have something to look at during the day when the octopus is hiding/sleeping, although it would be REALLY HARD to find a dwarf octopus among branches and polyps of corals in the dark.

Then again this is another thing that just hasn't been experimented with that much because of the general "species only" concept. Just like more rock makes an octo more likely to move about the tank freely and comfortably. Coral pieces might add to that, but caution should be taken not to combine aggressively defensive corals with octos which have very sensitive skin. Sure they roam the reef in the ocean, but they have almost infinite amounts of space to avoid bumping into dangerous obstacles, whereas in the aquarium, they have inches here and inches there, and if startled, might very well end up caught in a bad situation.

You'll get the most enjoyment out of an octopus in a 100% safe environment. It's nerve-racking enough just worrying about whether or not your octopus is healthy when you get it without adding the extra stress of whether or not your tank decorations are safe and suitable.

no im saying a reef tank and an octopus tank:grin:i wouldnt put the octopus in the reef:cyclops:

Sigh... Please erase... and ban...

ya go away you son of a scammer:yelling:

good catch, guys.

I just left the post's head on a pike, since I figured I should leave your posts to give you credit as "neighborhood watch," and as a probably-futile gesture to make future spammers say "these guys are serious about deleting spam, I should find greener spam pastures."

good idea dragonslayer152:)

so i have to ask a question:cry:does anyone think i need expierence with saltwater before i head into buying an octobot(octopus:lol:)

Hi

yeah, I'd say so... It will make it easier when it comes time to get an octopus as you will be more familiar with all the ins and outs of how an aquariums works :)

ok i think i'll do that,bye all. . . . . for now:lol::old:(by the way i'll still sometimes check back up on the site)so i'll come back when im looking for a dwarf thanks to all who have helped me:grin::oops:i'll be back:cry::bonk::sly::goodbye: