The purpose of Bits 'n Pieces is to relate non-cephalopod fossil stories of interest. If anyone comes across any interesting news items, then this is the place for them. Invertebrate and/or marine news items are preferred, but anything goes!

________________________________________ _____________________



Non-ceph but (hopefully) of interest:

Following last Mondays episode of Big Monster Dig on Channel 4 whereby the team excavated the largest recorded specimen of the giant Jurassic fish Leedsichthys, here is a quite interesting account of the excavation with a few nice photographs. Leedsichthys is estimated to have grown up to 30m, and is known from the Oxford Clays, as far as I know all specimens recorded so far come from a clay pit near Peterborough in the UK and date from 155mya. The fish was a filter feeder and probably had a spine composed of cartilage, so far only the mineralised head and tail have been found:

Big Monster Dig: Leedsichthys (http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/B/big_monster_dig/programmes/leedsichthys/)


On another note, UK readers may be interested in this programme which I believe is to air on BBC1 sometime in October. It is the latest in the "Walking With...." series and is entitled "Swimming With Sea Monsters", and appears to be another special episode (or two) with a presenter taking a plunge into the Mesozoic oceans. Doubtless he will be snapped at by pliosaurs and ichthyosaurs, though we are also promised a sea scorpion which should be interesting. Lets hope Liopleurodon is shown realistically this time, the 25m version shown in Dinosaurs was far too big....

Those not in the UK (most of you!) should be able to catch the programmes on Discovery at some point as so far all the Walking With.... series have been shown on that channel. Book details here:

Sea Monsters: Prehistoric Predators of the Deep Book (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0563488980/reviews/026-7400813-5635620)

Will post transmission dates when I can find out.

Interesting news here, though again non-ceph.

The discovery of a 409 million year old Devonian shark has just been announced, making it the oldest shark known by 15-20 million years. Details here, though for some reason the article dates it to 430mya:

http://new-brunswick.net/new-brunswick/sharks/sharkfossil.html

Another link here:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s958407.htm

Cool.
That's a biiiiiig tooth.

Leedsichthys is estimated to have grown up to 30m...

30 metres? Wow. I'd only ever read that it likely grew to over 12m, I didn't realize it might have grown that big. :shock:

This is good stuff, Phil...

Neil

Thanks, Um....

As we all know from reading on this site about Architeuthis, the press tends to exaggerate the size of animals to make them more 'newsworthy' for some reason. I doubt if estimates of the maximum length of Leedsichthys will ever be 100% accurate unless a complete skeleton is one day found. And let's face it, with a body of that size and spine composed of cartilage, excepting a miracle that is not going to happen.

If you would like to know more about Leedsichthys, there is an interesting report from National Geographic here:

"Biggest Fish Ever Found" Unearthed in UK (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1001_031001_biggestfish.html#main)

A detailed report about the excavation is available here, with good photos:

Big Dead Fish (http://www.big-dead-fish.com)

And you can view the remains of a specimen that was briefly on display in the Hunterian Museum in Glasgow here:

Swimming With the Big Dead Fish (http://www.hunterian.gla.ac.uk/news/fish/fish.shtml)

The ultimate 'one that got away' story!

As we all know from reading on this site about Architeuthis, the press tends to exaggerate the size of animals to make them more 'newsworthy' for some reason. I doubt if estimates of the maximum length of Leedsichthys will ever be 100% accurate unless a complete skeleton is one day found.

Very true, but that 6m head impresses the hell out of me. I was under the impression that 16-18m would end up being the 'fish story' size of these things.

Neil

From the NGS report Extinction Theories
teleosts would have had a crucial competitive edge over pachycormids due to their reproductive strategy. While Leedsichthys relied on relatively small numbers of well-developed young to perpetuate the species, the newcomers produced huge quantities of small eggs.

This seems to be the opposite of the ammonoid/nautiloid extinction theory
:nautiloi: :arrow: :nautilus:
:ammonite: :arrow: :(

Non-ceph, but very interesting nonetheless.

A fish-like animal has just been discovered in the 560mya Ediacaran deposits in South Australia. If it does turn out to have a primitive backbone, this will make it the earliest vertebrate yet discovered by a good 30 million years or so.

This is particularly interesting as it dates from the very early Cambrian, the period which gave rise to the basic body plans of the all the animals we are familiar with today. Most of the animals that were alive at this early date are enigmatic, strange quilted organisms that could have been animal or plant, jellyfish, animals resembling sea pens, and bizarre disk-like animals with three-fold symmetry. Almost all left no descendants.

Report from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3208583.stm). Another good report can be read here (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/22/1066631501521.html)

Also, it seems that a new geological period has just been announced (I shall hesitate to use the word 'discovered'). This is the Ediacaran period, the very period that this fish-like fossil was dates from. The new period will date from 600-543 million years. Information is available here (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7643201%255E28217,00.html)

Looks as if I will have to change my chart already. It was only published here yesterday!

Another item of invertebrate fossil interest.

A 300 million year old trigonotarbid fossil, i.e a rather heavily armoured looking ancestor of the arachnids has been discovered. These are not unknown, but are very rare.

What makes this one especially interesting is this particular fossil seems to display structures on its hind legs that may have been used to spinning silk. If this is the correct interpretation of these structures then this is the earliest evidence we have for spider-webs. Full story here:

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/11/05/spider_web031105

Phil,

Here's a tyrannosaur with a brain tumor. (http://www.discover.com/web-exclusives/killer-cancer1102/)

The last line of the article may provoke tears, though possibly for the wrong reasons.

Clem

Poor thing!

One has to wonder if this unfortunate dinosaur having suffered smashed ribs, torn tendons, jaw infections and a broken shoulder blade due to motor problems brought on because of the tumor, would have made an effective predator at all? Perhaps this lends weight to Jack Horner's scavenger hypothesis?

Thanks Clem.

:cry:

One has to wonder if this unfortunate dinosaur having suffered smashed ribs, torn tendons, jaw infections and a broken shoulder blade due to motor problems brought on because of the tumor, would have made an effective predator at all? Perhaps this lends weight to Jack Horner's scavenger hypothesis?
Phil,

Jack Horner, when he's not sitting in a corner with his thumb in a pie, is an excellent field paleontologist, but his evangelizing for the Tyrannosaurus rex-as-scavenger theory has always left me cold. I could go on at yawn-inducing length about what I perceive to be the weaknesses of that theory. Perhaps we can argue it over a few pints, someday.

Still, whatever the afflicted Gorgosaurus did to get her protein, the extent of the injuries she suffered makes it hard to imagine her doing anything. The animal described by Larson had to have experienced periods of near-total incapacitation. Short of ambushing prey at a watering hole, or scavenging in an environment where the carcasses came to her (a riverbank, maybe), I can't imagined how she survived alone. Maybe she wasn't alone?

Clem

The animal described by Larson had to have experienced periods of near-total incapacitation. Short of ambushing prey at a watering hole, or scavenging in an environment where the carcasses came to her (a riverbank, maybe),

Isn't that what incapacitated modern day carnivores do??? Seems not unreasonable!



I can't imagined how she survived alone. Maybe she wasn't alone?

Yikes.................a PRIDE of them :shock: Seriously though wouldn't a carnivore of this size require a considerable range, and therefore it'd be more likely to be solitary? (this is all sheer speculation you understand!)

J

[Seriously though wouldn't a carnivore of this size require a considerable range, and therefore it'd be more likely to be solitary? (this is all sheer speculation you understand!)

Hello Jean,

I wish I could venture an answer, but to be honest, I'm ignorant of the model. How do social habits get predicted by size and range? Sounds like good stuff.

:?:

Clem

Here's something I found rather interesting:

Fossil embryos delight scientists (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3393543.stm)

:trilobit:

Neil

Clem!

You seen this? It seems our favourite Dr. Hollingworth has made another discovery this week. This time the proportions are slightly more mammoth in proportion:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3413773.stm

Phil,

Lucky ----, isn't he?

"Nev" and Mark's website has their own account of the find, listed as "Fossil of the Week."

http://www.odgc.freeserve.co.uk/information.htm

:lol:

Clem

Thanks for the link Clem.

Interesting to see images of Neville Hollingworth displaying soft-bodied morphology! :)

Another interesting fossil invertebrate story today.

This concerns the announcement of the discovery of a section of a 428 million year old Silurian period fossil millipede from Stonehaven in Scotland. This predates the earliest air breathing invertebrate by 20 million years and is therefore of extreme importance in determining when the land was first colonised. Apparantly this millipede was already quite advanced implying that the earliest terrestrial invertebrates had evolved several million years before that.

Details here: http://www.sundayherald.com/39496

Phil,

Very interesting. I've an idea now to write an article about the use of fossils by nationalists.

:wink:

Clem

Clem: I have a copy of "Atlas of Primitive Man in China" which I picke dup secondhand partly due to the rampant nationalism in it - one picture is captioned somehting like "a mamoth tusk that was touched by Chairman Mao" and there is a whole section trying to use palaeontology and palaeoanthropology to prove that Taiwan has always been a part of China - its quite scary when ideology warps science in such a way (anthropology has been most abused but palaeontology has suffered too).

I love that headline "First-ever breathing animal was Scottish"!!

Its a great find - other (less partisan) news here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/3427499.stm

but this beat that headline "Life on earth began in... Stonehaven ":

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=92282004

There is a beautiful giant millipede on the NE of the Isle of Arran - someone has tried to cut it out with some kind of saw (unsuccessfully thankfully).

Emps

Photos of the critter, for anyone who's interested.

:trilobit:

Thank you for finding the photos Um... I failed to find any pictures yesterday so I'm pleased you got them. I can only assume that is a camera lucida drawing underneath and it does help to explain what is going on. Given the size of this fragment it seems amazing that this fossil was ever identified at all.

I expect there will be future similar discoveries from the site to come now that paleontologists will be actively looking. I doubt if they will be reported in the popular press like this one though.

By the way, the figure is from:

Wilson, Heather M. & Anderson, Lyall I. MORPHOLOGY AND TAXONOMY OF PALEOZOIC MILLIPEDES (DIPLOPODA: CHILOGNATHA: ARCHIPOLYPODA) FROM SCOTLAND. Journal of Paleontology 78(1) 169-184 (2004).

Pneumodesmus newmani is just one of the several little buggers they discuss.

Another fantastic find from Scotland! What's going on up there???

Here we have a truly amazing discovery, an early Devonian insect from Rynie in Aberdeenshire that is the oldest ever discovered with wings. This is dated at the early Devonian approx 396-407 mya. That implies that flying developed in the preceding Silurian period.

Here's a link if anyone is interested:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3478915.stm

with all this fossil news you must be as happy as a frog in a bog..... whats next, you finding the secret nautiloid burial ground?

Nice plesiosaur find. It looks pretty much intact:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/3603507.stm

What a great find :!: Usually that rock would be cracked down the middle and half of the thing would be washed away. Every flat rock I see now will have a plesiosaur on it :)

More detailed images of the plesiosaur are available at the link below. It transpires, without exaggeration, that this is possibly the most stunning and complete plesiosaur specimen ever found in the UK, and may even have some soft tissue preservation:

http://www.plesiosaur.com/somerset_ples/somerset.htm

Also today we have the announcement of raptor teeth from the Isle of Wight, almost unheard of in the UK:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3659783.stm

It seems that Southern Britain must be twinned with Jurassic Park at the moment! Nothing happens for months then all the announcements come along at once! I'm having a busy time trying to keep abreast of all this stuff.

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/files/Elasmosaurus_1.gif

More stuff from the UK...

Here's an article about the oldest known wildfire (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3660759.stm), a great, uh, conflagration during the Silurian.

It's more interesting than you think.

:x

hi all, with regards to um...'s Silurian wildfire which was accurately described as being more interesting than the title, I recall some theorising over the demise of our dinosaur friends related to falling oxygen levels :yuck:
Apparently, Cretaceous amber samples containing air bubbles were analysed :shock: sorry, tested & found oxygen content to be in the region of 25%. It was also stated that normally aspirated dinosaurs breathed by muscular articulation of the ribs not by use of a diaphragm. The fossil record shows the the dinosaurs were well on their way out prior to the Chicxulub impact & as oxygen levels fell due to various other events, the dinosaurs breathing apparatus was not up to the task & they wheezed & spluttered out of existence, ‘scuse for a sec, I’m filling up ! :cry:
Absolute accuracy of the above is not guaranteed as is a recollection of data supplied by Auntie on “Horizon”

spanking plesiosaur find by the way.

Absolute accuracy of the above is not guaranteed as is a recollection of data supplied by Auntie on “Horizon”

Horizon seems to be emphasising sensationalism over science at the moment, don't you think? the BBC seem to love putting scientists at loggerheads, doubtless misrepresenting their views via judicious editing for the sake to create an on-screen argument. Did you see that one about T-Rex a couple of months ago? I had to laugh when a Triceratops vertebra was shown that had been bitten on the underside, thus "proving" that T-Rex must have been a scavenger rather than a hunter. The argument was that the bite would have been on the top surface on the bone if the T-Rex had attacked it whilst alive. Excuse me, here? What killed the Triceratops in the first place? It might not have been old age!

Oh dear....oh dear.... :goofysca:

the dinosaurs breathing apparatus was not up to the task & they wheezed & spluttered out of existence, ‘scuse for a sec, I’m filling up ! :cry:

He he, reminds of that Larson cartoon!

As our illustrious moderator in Fossils & History, you are absolutely spot on !
Dumbing down is the way to go it seems as we spiral downwards into MDF & reality tv.
As for rash, unscientific claims, I can prove that Jurassic trees grew almost horizontally ! Liar, heretic & blasphemer I hear you cry but no !!
The holes in Durdle Door are where trees once grew in days long past
& in which plane do they lie so ner !
Farley cartoon comes to mind as well.

And now (finally) something very cool from :canada::

Ancient arthropod caught moulting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3688045.stm)

Thanks um...

It's quite understandable that the public are not allowed to collect from the Burgess Shale, and quite right too given its extreme scientific importance and rarity. Marrella though? I've read that those things are so common that they are just left on the slopes these days uncollected to be frost-cracked into oblivion, which seems a pity. A lot of revenue and interest could be generated from the sale of these unwanted specimens, wouldn't we all like one for a few dollars?

(Just looked it up), this tiny blind arthropod Marrella accounts for nearly 40% of the specimens collected at the Shale and I can't believe no-one has found one moulting before, I expect that there are dozens of them sitting in drawers; after all the Burgess Shale and other Cambrian sites are some of the most studied invertebrate faunas in the world.

Interesting, thanks!

(By the way, Spartacus, Lulworth Cove and Durdle Door are lovely spots. Had a nice day out there a few years ago)

thanks um..., I always find it strange that with each new discovery someone is quoted as saying "we didn't believe this was possible"
I'm a fan of chaos theory where anything can be assumed as possible, no blinkers here :shock:

We are blessed in the UK where our primary collecting sites are subject to coastal erosion & I believe all significant finds would be reported by responsible collectors. Who'd turn down the chance of a little glory ?

Phil, I find the whole of the south coast absolutely fascinating. Dr ? Ian West's site is a must for anyone interested geologically or palaeontologically - phew

http://www.soton.ac.uk/~imw/index.htm

I am not too keen on discussing vertebrate fossils here because it is obviously a vast subject and we should really stick to molluscs, this being an octopus news magazine afterall.....but I've heard rumblings of an extremely important discovery to be announced later this month or next month.

Lets just say:

Solnhofen
Dinosaur/Bird link
Feathers
We all learned about it at school
Creationists don't like it.

Will post more when it is confirmed.....

This was supposed to be a "Ceph" related post but it was not to be :(

Sunday 27th June, 11.00am arrived at Hunstanton Cliff car park. The racing Rover panted & gasped for breath as the horses had not been spared during the journey. With wife & son & heir in tow, our aim to peruse & pick the famous "Cretaceous Nougat Formation" in old Hunstanton town for fossiliferous remnants of that period & we were soooooo keen you could bag it & tag it.

We were dressed to suit the wild north Norfolk coast & stoutly suited & booted but it was boiling as this summers Arctic blast (the Freezerbreeze) had failed to arrive, blue rinsed grannies swooned under the shade of Fisons fertilizer bags & teenies frollicked in bikinis :shock:

Down on the beach we stood transfixed before the majesty of the towering Nougat cliffs & were greeted by the sounds of the local folk who could be heard enquiring of each other "are yore roit deeya ?" as they huddled in the shade at the base of the crumbling chalk face, discussing genetics, feasting on Bernard Matthews turkey drummers & fanning each other with the notice boards warning them not to sit at the base of the cliffs as they were prone to jettison large particulates, some helped by fulmars nesting in the fissures :roll:
Ammonites, a particular fave of mine are noted as being present at the venue but we searched hi & we searched low but dagnabbit, not a sossarge, just some coral :sleeping: & brachiopods :sleeping: dog turds :x & the most monumental cloudburst to be witnessed by modern man this week. Rivulets of precipitation flowed through every gully created where two muscle groups form a gorge :oops:
The boy wonder was a shivering drowned rat & a timeout was declared so we popped round to see H.M. Liz II for ginger beer & cucumber sandwiches with real butter in, not "stripey" veg oil & liposuction !

Next week: Levington/Ramsholt perhaps, non-ceph I'm afraid but you can get crabs.

Sorry to hear about your lack of success, Spartacus. Perhaps you should have kept a watch behind you though?

Better luck next time.

P

:notworth: :lol: :roflmao: :notworth: :lol: :roflmao:

PUKKARAMA wise wizard of the Paintshop Pro-V, majestic !
I realise that you need to mind your back round these parts where livestock both ovine & porcine are fleet of foot but sheesh ! :goofysca:

I've been spoiled having started my quest at the Liassic Cathedral of Ammon in Dorset & there are whispers on the wind......

Seems our recently appreciated WK may have had some large forefathers (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/07/01/uk.gainthippos/index.html) in the UK...

Well done young messenger, you have solved the mystery of the "hush hush something big came out at Pakefield" whispers. It was on my shortlist for a visit but it's probably been sealed off by the Feds :police: now.

We bummed out in the Euro footy but we had the biggest hippos Kiboko Megalogob :unionjac:

More big bones (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2965889a12,00.html)...

Pakefield mystery is still a mystery as Kiboko grande came from inland quarry !? not Pakefield !
is this what Phil was hinting of ? you can never have too many bones, ask any octopus but if they put these together wrong we could see the 1st ever

Velocitortoise :D

Stunning beds of ancient Ediacaran animals preserved in 3D unearthed in :canada:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3898605.stm

More details:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996162

Rangeomorphtastic Phil :shock:
the Ediacaran is so long ago it's fallen off the end of my timeline. lucky old :canada: ians :mrgreen:
As this is non-ceph, this Sunday's palaeontological (phew) expedition is to the home of Two Tone Ted from not Teddington but Levington (compost country). Many a time I've chugged from it's fabled marina in pursuit of Coddus Biggus & Dabbus Flattus but this time it's all hands to the mudflats to glean ceph, crustacean & reptilian remnants. No need for BFH here I'm afraid young Kevin :( just rinse & tap it unwrap it.

Bait that breath ready for my full report Mondayish.

As they say in Norway "plenty of to do at the weekend, shoot dee moose & ski dee slopen"
TTFN

sorry it's late, I could tell you were all gagging to hear what happened.

Nothing ! bucket full of foss-wood, nowt else, no ammonites, no reptiles & no crabs :wink: but tres scenic.

Conned littl'n into coming as told him it was a whale hunt & there were none of those either but I did once meet a pilot whale off Felixstowe so no a complete fib. :D

Gigantic plesiosaur discovery at Morden, Manitoba:

http://winnipeg.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=mb_plesiosaur20040816

Rangeomorphs and plesiosaurs, it's clear that I should go to Canada when the convention comes to town!

Melissa

apparently Canada does well for 'normous ichthyosaurs too :mrgreen:
I thought I found an exceptionally well preserved one on Sunday in the boulder clay but turned out to be dead, smelly dolphin ! :roll:
My time WILL come !

More ichthyosaurs and plesiosaurs discovered! TEN fine Jurassic examples have been unearthed from the permafrost in the Svalbard islands, just off the coast to the north of Norway. According to this (http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&st oryID=575787&section=news) report below one of the ichthyosaurs is a brand new species. Another specimen particularly interesting as the cranium has been well preserved, an unusual find indeed. Click here (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Science/2004/09/02/613366-ap.html).

These ancient reptiles fed on squid, of course....

Will post more details if I can find them.

I hope they'll make pictures public soon, this is really exciting!

Melissa

Folks,

Very interesting news regarding a 230-million year old animal found in China:

Vacuum-equipped marine reptile? (http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040920/full/040920-12.html)

This seems especially well-timed for TONMO since it deals with aquatic predators' use of suction to trap prey, lately discussed with regards to both Architeuthis and the Goblin shark. The linked article contains a very interesting observation about how a large predator might use a very small head to appear non-threatening. And then...WHAM!

Clem

Cool stuff...fascinating.

Some invert fossils we found. Corals and Brachiopods from the Pennsylvanian Period. The coral is a branching solitary coral Barbouria sp. The Brachiopods are Composita and some Spiriferids. Brachiopods are the most common whole body fossil found in Paleozoic rocks, very common in marine rocks from the early Ordovician until the end of the Permian, only common locally in Mesozoic and Cenozoic rocks.

http://www.tonmo.com/phpBB/download.php?id=3389

Found this rather interesting release; apologies if posted in the wrong place.
O
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3599922&thesect ion=news&thesubsection=general&thesecond subsection=

Two interesting stories today.

A 425m sea-spider has been reconstructed via slicing sections through a fossil and photographing them. It has been found to have two large pincers perhaps aligning it with the chelicerates (spiders and scorpions):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3756614.stm

Animations here:

http://www.earth.ox.ac.uk/herefordshire/haliestes/haliestes.htm


And from China comes a report of a feathered 121m year old bird, unhatched within its egg and the oldest discovery of its kind yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3762626.stm

This'll probably be all over the place fairly soon:

Little lady of Flores forces rethink of human evolution: Dwarf hominid lived in Indonesia just 18,000 years ago. (http://www.nature.com/news/specials/flores/index.html)

I suppose it's pretty exciting, if you're into that sort of thing.

sorry to go of piste but Um... you're sure looking purty !
busy tonight ? :wink:

sorry to go of piste but Um... you're sure looking purty !
busy tonight ? :wink:

:goofysca:

Busy running away screaming...

600 million year old eggs from China containing embryos. But what sort of animal would they have hatched into?

Cambrian embryos (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041104005307.htm)

Looks like the world's largest spider has been downsized somewhat. The 300 million year old metre long Megarachne has just been reappraised. It is now a sea scorpion! Pity really.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/4268363.stm

Depressed as well as disappointed. I really like the idea of meter-span spiders. :sad:

Depressed as well as disappointed. I really like the idea of meter-span spiders. :sad:


I better stock up on 2 meters wide books to squish'em up in case of them coming for a visit! :lol:

I better stock up on 2 meters wide books to squish'em up in case of them coming for a visit! :lol:

hey, stop right there young fella ! oi loik spiders :mad: ! just catch it a dustbin & put him outside ! :grin:

keef

Me too, unless they're good ol' Arkansas Fiddlebacks. Then, well, I respect the spider, but...

That would be the notorious Brown Recluse spider, of course. Nasty creatures. Nowhere near as bad as a funnel-web spider, but amputations are not something I want as an artist. :wink:

aye lad, I've seen them pesky varmints on't telly & ye'll nay want one o' them in ya jarmies - ouch !
now't like that 'bout these parts.

Keef

Very interesting BBC Radio programme on the Cambrian explosion and the Burgess Shale available to listen to here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime.shtml

It was first broadcast last Thursday.

Moon Child. How's the eagle ?

Shonisaurus sikanniensis, the worlds largest ichthyosaur, has just been put on display at the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Canada.


http://www.fftimes.com/index.php/3/2005-03-08/20416

that's one big icthyosaur. I forgot how huge they could get.

Oh no! Unique trilobite fossil stolen!!!

http://www.expressandstar.com/articles/news/es/article_72292.php

:trilobit: :cry:

OH MANN! What idiot would steal a fossil? It's a rock!

Wasn't that big Ichthy excavation featured in a National Geographic or Discovery Channel documentary a year or two back entitled "Triassic Sea Monster" or something similar? Also when will the press learn that Ichthyosaurs, Plesiosaurs, Pliosaurs and Mosasaurs (and Pterosaurs for that matter) WERE NOT DINOSAURS!!! (sigh)

The missing trilobites have now been recovered and two local youths are helping police with their enquiries apparently

All the best

Andy

OH MANN! What idiot would steal a fossil? It's a rock!

hey Phil, Big Kev, Andy, you see what Squidman wrote ? :mad:

Just a rock !?

Andy, yes it's one & the same & the dummy who wrote "dinosaur" also stated 3 metres, not 30 - derbrain ! :roll:

The T-Rex, Sue, was just a rock, that sold for $ 8.36 million. And it was just a dumb old vertebrate. :lol:

hey Phil, Big Kev, Andy, you see what Squidman wrote ? :mad:

Just a rock !?


:goofysca: (sensing hostility...)


What I was so confused about was why the thieves would want a completely unique ROCK. I mean, they couldn't sell it! It would be tracked down. Don't thieves go for MONEY anyway? Sure, that trilobite is valuable, but it couldn't be sold and displayed.

Hmmm....I wonder what was unique, if anything, about that particular trilobite? Those things are quite common from the Dudley area, and even feature on the towns coat-of-arms. Maybe it was a prize well-prepped example rather than a unique specimen.

Anyway Andy, glad to know it has been recovered. As you say Squidman, it seems a strange thing to steal, though that is assuming the kids who stole it knew what they were taking. May they were just opportunists, grabbing whatever came to hand?

relax Squidman, you are in no danger (yet).
apparently the Dudley bug was deemed to be gay & therefore benefitted from a council grant in order to demonstrate it's sexuality publicly thus making it unique amongst it's kind (unless it's "partner" is found)

Keef

Hmmm......the Sexuality of the Trilobites. There has to be a research project there for some budding phd student - it'll give them something to do after all those German Penguins.

Unfortunately Phil, the Dudley Bug is not as common as once it was. The authorities at Wrens Nest nature reserve where many of them came from do not approve of the likes of us bashing away to free more of them and they are now difficult (though not impossible) to come across. Haven't heard what species was involved as there were a dozen of more found there. For those not familiar with Wrens nest its an isolated hill of Wenlock age Silurian reef limestone surrounded by carboniferous coal measures situated in the middle of the town of Dudley near Birmingham UK and was famed for its well preserved crinoids, trilobites, brachiopods, corals and cephs which were found when the limestone was mined to support local industries in days gone by.

All the best

Andy

You guys all sound very informed... this is the first i have looked into the fossil section (though i have been posting in other sections for more than a year!!! My only experience with fossil was cracking open rocks on a school camp to find fossilised ferns and some other little plant bits and pieces!!! (and buying a nautoloid fossil from the market!!!lol)

G'day Oscar, Andy & Phil are Tonmo's equivalent of the Encyclopaedia Britannica online & bathe regularly in a giant vat of Omega 3, Kevin is a man mountain in order to transport his huge brain & hammers. I'm just so full of it even my eyes are brown.

Keef

haha thanks for the introductions

Keef, your proboscis is getting a slight tan tinge too. :lol:

haha thanks for the introductions

Whelk !

Kevin, credit where it's due my friend ! :grin:

btw, bought a new pick yesterday, British Racing Green head & bright yellow composite handle & integral Liopleurodon ferox detector (12Vdc) 8-)

Keef

You're too kind Keef - Omega 3? the only thing I bathe in is Imperial Leather. Good luck with the Liopleurodon hunting.

Andy

PS I hope there isn't another Andy lurking out there wondering why I'm replying to this! :oops:

There is always another Andy lurking out there :wink: -
but this time I guess it was you that Keef referred to !

AndyS

Neato. Scientists Recover [Soft] Tissue From T. Rex (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050324/ap_on_sc/t_rex_tissues).

Neato. Scientists Recover [Soft] Tissue From T. Rex (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050324/ap_on_sc/t_rex_tissues).

...along with a little note, reading: "Dear Jack Horner, I was an active predator, not a scavenger."

Very cool stuff, Sir Dr. um...

Clem

Hi AndyS - Well, there you go, maybe Keef was referring to all Andys who post here - your ammonite collection is much better than mine anyway from what I've seen on other websites. Are you holidaying in Robin Hoods Bay again this year?

On the soft tissue Tyrannosaurs I do seem to remember reading something a few years back which claimed to have found preserved red blood cells in T rex bone but have not come across anything since.

All the best

Andy (not S)

Neuropteris / Andy,

I will be in the RHB area again very soon and looking very much forward to it...

AndyS

Sorry AndyS, all that know you are fully aware you too are blessed with megaknowledge & shares in Omega 3 production, sorry you weren't on the list :oops:

Jack Horner based his T Rex scavenging theory on one triceratops specimen displaying bites marks impossible to make if it had been alive.
Who's to say Mr.T didn't dispatch his dinner & give the love bite later, talk about blinkered ! :mad:

I'm sure vertebrate palaeontologists just talk cack to irritate each other.

Keef

Just a few miles to north of me at Swalecliff on the North Kent coast, a rare 70,000 yr old woolly rhino skull was recovered yesterday. I'd have loved to have gone and seen it, but I only found out about it this morning. Hopefully I'll be able to get a photo or two in Maidstone museum soon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4431903.stm

Possibly the most complete specimen of the ancient whale Basilosaurus ever found has just been unearthed in Egypt. It measures 18m long and is 40m years old.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1348668.htm

nice one Philpot, still waiting to find a proper 'saurus of my own in the barn !

Keef

How about this, an 8 foot millipede?

The recent discovery of a 300m year old track in New Mexico indicates the largest specimen of Arthropleura found to date. Details available here:

http://www.abqtrib.com/albq/nw_science/article/0,2668,ALBQ_21236_3699656,00.html

http://www.tonmo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=769&stc=1

Very nice Arthropleurid model!. Here's the real thing. Not quite as complete as the reconstruction but I've had it identified by Lyall Anderson at the National Museums of Scotland and apparently its something called a 'k plate' from the underside of the beastie (a slightly smaller one I think!). From a now infilling opencast coal mine in Lancashire where I hang out when not looking for ammonites. Actually picked up by 'Megalodon' from UK fossils but he kindly passed it on.

All the best

Andy

OMG Andy! So jealous...that must be an exceptionally rare fossil indeed. I've wondered how much of Arthropleura was actually known from body parts, and how much from trackways. Is the 'K-Plate' part of an alphabetical sequence of body segments do you think?

Due to the intense global forestation, wasn't the oxygen level of the atmosphere supposed to be somewhat higher in the Carboniferous, somehow allowing insects to reach greater sizes than today? I think the giant millipedes were contemporary to the giant dragonflies. What a sight they would have been!

There's a great new book on insect evolution out in July that has a chapter on arthropleurids, here's a link to the publishers listing for you. Seems like a must buy:

Evolution of the Insects (http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521821495)

I've read that publication was due for late last year but has been pushed back due to the redescription of a pair of 400 million year old set of insect jaws from the Scottish Rhynie chert. As the oldest insect known, this discovery apparently forced the re-write of one of the first chapters.

Great stuff Andy!

Hi Phil

As far as I know no complete Arthropleurids of any size have been found so what it is known is extrapolation from the various parts which have been preserved - body segments, legs etc - I'm still looking for that 6ft elongate nodule though!

The high atmospheric oxygen partial pressure in the Carboniferous is often given as the reason for the large size of the insects of the time though I'm not sure if there is any evidence of this actually having been the case (maybe isotope concentrations?) There was certainly a lot of plant life around though. If there was that much oxygen available at the time the forest fires must have been spectacular! There have been burnt tree stumps found complete with early terrestrial tetrapods skulking within at Joggins in Nova Scotia. I've seen plenty of in situ stumps in the UK coal measures but nothing hiding inside unfortunately.

Andy