cool bug ! got huge spiders here but that's a beast

Keef

And introducing 'Nelson', the 450m year old South-African fish!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4498049.stm

I've seen plenty of in situ stumps in the UK coal measures but nothing hiding inside unfortunately.

Andy

Thanks Andy.

We used to have four coal mines here in SE Kent, i.e Betteshanger, Snowdown, Tilmanstone and Chislett though I think the last of these closed in the mid 80s. As a kid I used to be given slabs of fossil bearing rock from the coal seams by miners who knew my father socially. I've still got a whole box of them containing plant fossils around somewhere; maybe I should go back and see if there is anything of particular interest there. Hard to photograph, coal fossils; they are so dark.

No arthropleurids though. If only....

And introducing 'Nelson', the 450m year old South-African fish!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4498049.stm

"These fossils are important because there is a theory that the origins of fish really took place in the northern continents, and then spread south," he said. "This find [from Southern Africa] dispels that theory."

Funny, I always thought that fish evolved in the ocean, and not on continents at all...

Very interesting find, though. I've read that the rise of the teleost fishes is believed to have been a major factor in the dethroning of the ammonites, but I have a friend (who is very smart, but also sometimes prone to overstate goofy theories) who notes that ammonites seem to have been "drilled" a lot, so he thinks that it was faster, shell-less cephalopods & their radulas that were the most effective ammonite predators. This idea seems to be possibly backed up by this article, since it implies that this early fish was more scavenger-like than agressive predator (but it's always dubious to make sweeping conclusions from a small sample size-- fish may have been as diverse then as they are now!)

- M

Hi Phil

Have a very close look at your coal measures slabs - at least one of the Kent pits (can't remember which one but Chislett rings a bell) has produced insects from the tips in recent years. You never know - you might also have a bit of an arthropleurid lurking in there!

Andy

Falcarius utahensis (http://geology.utah.gov/whatsnew/news/new0505.htm) Missing Link or just strange?

Hi Monty,

Funny, I always thought that fish evolved in the ocean, and not on continents at all...

:lol: Good point!

Very interesting find, though. I've read that the rise of the teleost fishes is believed to have been a major factor in the dethroning of the ammonites, ...

Well....hesitant...the earliest teleosts appeared in the mid Triassic, at some point around 235 mya, this was also roughly the point when the first true ammonites started to appear. I don't therefore think the actual rise of the teleosts affected the ammonites, as they both evolved to become very successful groups concurrently. Although the size of the ammonite group varied wildly through time it reached a peak in the mid-Cretaceous, so it is perhaps possible that maybe teleost (and reptile) predation began to affect their numbers as the group went into a slow decline from that point on.

In short, I really don't know, we really need a fossil fish expert here to explain fish diversity in ancient seas.

...but I have a friend (who is very smart, but also sometimes prone to overstate goofy theories) who notes that ammonites seem to have been "drilled" a lot, so he thinks that it was faster, shell-less cephalopods & their radulas that were the most effective ammonite predators.

It would be very interesting if your friend has any evidence that other cephalopods preyed on ammonites, it'd be great if he would be willing to provide some references as I could find nothing on the net about this. I thought that most drill marks on ammonite shells were mostly thought to have originated from gastropods and limpets, probably mostly after the death of the animal. Certainly there is evidence that short necked plesiosaurs and mosasaurs preyed on ammonites, but, again, I have been unable to find references to teleost fish stomach contents containing ammonoids. Maybe your friend has access to a scientific library?

This idea seems to be possibly backed up by this article, since it implies that this early fish was more scavenger-like than agressive predator (but it's always dubious to make sweeping conclusions from a small sample size-- fish may have been as diverse then as they are now!)

- M

Yep, totally agree. I think these earliest fish were supposed to be something akin to the modern hagfish. Anyone remember seeing them feeding off the whale carcass on 'The Blue Planet'?

Prehistoric Chinese Dinosaur-Eating Giant Badger (http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=1502)

No, it's not April 1st. This is real!


http://www.tonmo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=789&stc=1

Prehistoric Chinese Dinosaur-Eating Giant Badger[/url]

No, it's not April 1st. This is real!


This certainly counters everything I've ever heard about early mammals (it's amazing how much of the stuff taught as "known" to high school students turns out to be "a guess that was wrong.")

However, my first thought was "Perhaps if we build a large, wooden badger..."

- M

Well....hesitant...the earliest teleosts appeared in the mid Triassic, at some point around 235 mya, this was also roughly the point when the first true ammonites started to appear. I don't therefore think the actual rise of the teleosts affected the ammonites, as they both evolved to become very successful groups concurrently. Although the size of the ammonite group varied wildly through time it reached a peak in the mid-Cretaceous, so it is perhaps possible that maybe teleost (and reptile) predation began to affect their numbers as the group went into a slow decline from that point on.


Hmm. It sounds like my source about this may have not been so good-- it was some years ago, but I think it was a "popular science" book of some sort that I though was credible. I thought it was going into details on the "shelled cephalopods were the dominant free-swimming animals in the sea for a long time, but they started to decline and were mostly driven into the deep sea when the teleost fishes arose and out-competed them" theme. I thought it mentioned ammonites in particular in this context, but if the teleosts and ammonites arose simultaneously, perhaps they were referring more to earlier shelled cephs, and I'm remembering wrong.

In Ward's Natural History of the Nautilus he refers the notion that increasing number of shell-crushing predators evolved in the Mesozoic, and that (presumably as a result) ammonite shell scultpture and ornament coarsened in the Mesozoic compared to the Paleozoic and "certainly did so during the Cretaceous Period" (is he uncertain about the Mesozoic?) He goes on to speculate that ammonites may have been forced to deeper water by "competitive or predatory pressure," but doesn't mention what specific predators he thinks were the cause.

I wish I could remember the source for the teleost fish competition hypothesis-- it was when I was trying to learn a lot about cephs in general, so I was reading a bunch. My recollection is that there was one book that had a chapter on biological reasons for the ammonites and nautiloids having lost their place as the primary form of free-swimming animal. I had the impression this was "stuff all the real palaentologists know," so I didn't really note it as a reference, more as stuff I should know if I was to be able to read more specific papers. What I remember is that there was discussion about vertebrates developing hemoglobin for better oxygen transport in blood, mylenated axons for faster and more compact nervous systems, and better kidneys (and maybe other excretory issues). It went on to hypothesize that the coleoids lost their shells in order to become fast enough to compete, because the shells were no longer adequate protection, and they added so much drag that the fast fishes would swim circles around them. I was impressed by the fact that the successes of vertebrate fish could be thought of as driven by the need to compete with the established cephalopods, so in some sense a lot of vertebrate development was driven by the pressure to compete with the established cephalopods...

I feel foolish for not noting a reference on this, though, since it sounds like it would be interesting to re-read, pass on to tonmo folks, and track down some of the references... (we need a "kicking myself" smilie!)


It would be very interesting if your friend has any evidence that other cephalopods preyed on ammonites, it'd be great if he would be willing to provide some references as I could find nothing on the net about this. I thought that most drill marks on ammonite shells were mostly thought to have originated from gastropods and limpets, probably mostly after the death of the animal. Certainly there is evidence that short necked plesiosaurs and mosasaurs preyed on ammonites, but, again, I have been unable to find references to teleost fish stomach contents containing ammonoids. Maybe your friend has access to a scientific library?


Well, he certainly had access to a scientific library when he came up with this idea, but he's also done some field work (he was a geology grad student at the time). I'm not sure I have his email address, but I'll see if I can ask him if he has references, or if he just observed this in some fossils. I believe he wasn't doing field work on cephs per se, and may have observed things he couldn't publish (he mentioned he had found some interesting fossils in a foreign country where politics prevented him from collecting, documenting, or doing other useful things with them without some sort of government permits and regulation that he didn't qualify for.)

- M

Thanks for the above Monty, very interesting reading indeed. Maybe it was predation pressure that drove the nautiloids into deeper water in Cretaceous? Nice idea.

I digress.....

And now the dreaded Fossil Joke:


Did you hear about the professor who took the first timers out on a fossil hunt?

Yeah it seems that one of the first timers found a beautiful mosasaur jaw fragment with several teeth still in it right next to the professor's foot! The professor became a little upset that this novice had found such a wonderful prize within "his space" and proceeded to try and talk the finder into letting him add it to the University (his) collection. The student repeatedly told him "NO!"

Finally the professor in one last attempt asked, "Why not?" The student then very calmly replied...

"It's my first fossil. I can't give it up. It has too much sedimental value!"

Come on, Phil. How is that joke funny?

Don't ask me, folks. Jurassicking the wrong person.

:tomato:

Oh Tony, don't be sooooo cretaceous !!!!

wow, no bones or teeth? i would love to see that thing swimming! or as a fossil...
...
...
... err

Oh and by the way i love all the fossil jokes guys! very cool

Coprolite happens eh ?!

Keef

Thankfully Paleo Jokes are few and far between. Here's two more I stumbled upon, laughs not guaranteed!

Predictable Museum Joke

Some tourists in the Chicago Museum of Natural History are marveling at
the dinosaur bones. One of them asks the guard, "Can you tell me how old
the dinosaur bones are?"

The guard replies, "They are 73 million, four years, and six months old."

"That's an awfully exact number," says the tourist. "How do you know
their age so precisely?"

The guard answers, "Well, the dinosaur bones were seventy three million
years old when I started working here, and that was four and a half years
ago!


Utterly Bizarre Cladistics Joke

A cladist's wife is pregnant. One day she is experiencing labor pains.
The cladist calls an ambulance. His wife and him arrive safely at the
hospital. After a few hours of pacing back and forth in the waiting room,
the doctor congratulates the cladist: "Congratulations, you have two new
daughters." The cladist asks the doctor in excitement: "Doctor, does that
mean that I have twin daughters?" The doctor answers, "No, there was no
symmetrical split. Instead, there was an asymmetrical split. That means
one of your daughters is 25 years older than the other one, but your wife
seems to be missing."

"it's amazing how much of the stuff taught as "known" to high school students turns out to be "a guess that was wrong."

The first lesson ever taught at school should be :

"For the rest of your academic life, everything you will be taught will only ever be opinion."

I'd love to have a brief work with the scientist who termed the phrase 'Junk DNA'...

"it's amazing how much of the stuff taught as "known" to high school students turns out to be "a guess that was wrong."

The first lesson ever taught at school should be :

"For the rest of your academic life, everything you will be taught will only ever be opinion."

I'd love to have a brief work with the scientist who termed the phrase 'Junk DNA'...

Hear, hear!

Quite possibly, the only human ever to only use 10% of his/her brain was the person who said "humans only use 10% of their brains."

- M

If Kevin only uses 10% of his brain what genius must he be capable of when the remainder kicks in ??

Keef

Alright.

Who's the wise guy who gave this thread one star?

Well, one star is better than none I suppose. Good to know all the digging around for interesting stories is appreciated......

Spartacus usually rates all his own threads with five stars. Quite right too!!!!!!

Totally agree about Kevin's brain though! The article on Shell Morphology is absolutely brilliant. In awe....:notworth:

Sorry guys, but the other 90% of my brain got lost in the ozone back in the early '70s and I aint seen it since :rainbow:





References:

Commander Cody and his Lost Planet Airmen, 1971, Lost in the Ozone, Paramount. (http://www.commandercody.com/)

Somehow,mine always get the full set ! :sly:

Keef

Spartacus usually rates all his own threads with five stars. Quite right too!!!!!!

wasn't me, honest Guv :roll: I was in Normandy on Omahgod beach!

Keef

This one is purely on the rumour mill, and at present I have not any links for anyone (yet).

It seems that a pterosaur even larger than Quetzelcoatlus is currently awaiting preparation and publication. All I can say about it is that it hails from South America and has been discovered by a chap called Dino Frey. Trackways have been found implying a gait of 5m, and bones that seem to indicate the thing had a wingspan of 25m. That places it slightly smaller than a Boeing 737! That's quite some animal.

More details when (if) I can find them.

Hurry then !

Keef

Hoo boy! That is a big pterosaur!

Hoo boy! That is a big pterosaur!

Indeed so Squidman. Quetzelcoatlus had a wingspan of 11-12m so if true this find has literally doubled the size of the largest known pterosaur. How the devil did the thing take off? It must have needed a tow-plane! :smile:

I find this rather hard to believe, hopefully there will be a proper press release soon so we know for certain.

This would be an interesting fossil if it turns out to be true.

I would be more intertested in how the wings would stay whole than how the beast would take off, though the theories into that would be interesting as well.

This beast would have to have some very unique bone structure inside its wings to keep the strength yet remain light enough for flight.

Hopefully there will be more info released soon.

Hello Phil,

Holy crap, what a monster that would be. Do you reckon it's come out of Brazil?

I'm guilty of being a dinosaur snob (a snob, period), so I've been out of the pterosaur loop. Darren Naish and Dave M. Martill have written a good primer on the latest research and discovery in the field. Click here to download "A Successful Invasion of Prehistoric Skies." (PDF) (http://www.iob.org/downloads/Pterosaurs_50_5.pdf) Fascinating material about skeletal structure (a pterosaur whose skull architecture resembled expanded polystyrene!), wing anatomy (soft-tissue preservation revealing a tough, resilient membrane) and giantism (at least two species achieved greater wing spans than The Big Q). Great stuff.

If this South American beast is real, and as big as advertised, its terrestrial posture, even if quadrupedal, would have put it at eye level with T. rex. Egads.

:shock:

Clem

Thanks for the link Clem. That's a really interesting article and I've printed it off for a good read through later. Didn't know about the other giant pterosaurs other than Quetzy.

No matter the size compared to a T-Rex, we really need a diagram of such a pterosaur scaled next to a London double-decker bus! :wink:

(It's a running old joke around here everyone!)

Here you go. Very scientific.

http://www.tonmo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=847&stc=1


(I can make the bus template freely available if anyone wishes to make their own dino or ceph comparison charts). :shock:

Hello Phil,

Holy crap, what a monster that would be. Do you reckon it's come out of Brazil?



Could be, Dr. Frey published this work in 1998 so he has definitely been working in Brazil:

MARTILL, D.M. & FREY, E. (1998): A new pterosaur Lagerstätte in N.E. Brazil (Crato Formation; Aptian, Lower Cretaceous): Preliminary observations. – Oryctos 1, 79-85

Quetzy was one of the last pterosaurs so if this is the site the new giant hails from, it is somewhat surprising that they reached such enormous sizes at this much earlier point in time. (But then I know practically nothing about them!)

I've spent the last three weeks with this baby. Its most likely Edmontosaurus annectens, a hadrosaur or 'duck-billed' dinosaur from the latest Cretaceous Hell Creek Formation in SE Montana. The first pieces we collected when we found it last year were a semi-articulated lower leg including a metatarsal, calcaneum, tibia and fibula. It isn't actually a baby. Based on the size of that material we had initially thought it might be sub-adult, but now we've found the sacrum completely fused so it was probably just a smaller critter.

This year, working from the leg into the hill we found another tibia and fibula, then an ischium. Starting a couple meters to the north we found the string of vertebrae, starting with the third caudal (tail). We found a femur between there and the lower legs we had been working on. As we took it all back we found the other ischium, part of an ilium or a pubis under the femur, and the vertebrae continued through the sacrum and into the dorsals. At this point it was considerably more than we had expected so we had to stop and remove more of the overburden rock. At that point we found both scalupae, the other femur and a whole heck of a lot of ribs. We had originally thought we'd be able to finish the site this last week, but it is way too extensive and will require heavy machinery (a bulldozer or a helicopter) to lift the blocks, so we had to winterize it so we can return next year. Before we left we found the neck vertebrae and the start of the rest of the tail vertebrae, all articulated. The only thing we've yet to find are the feet, the forlimbs and the skull. The feet are probably gone, but its likely the rest is there.

Dan

that is a massive bird - lol - gorsh can you imagine that thing flying above you?

it looks in great condition Dan !

Keef

Wow! Thanks for the stunning pictures Dan. Do you know what will happen to this specimen when the excavation is complete? Will it be put on public display?

Here's a nice reconstruction of Edmontosaurus:

We already have one hadrosaur mount in the museum and unfortunately we don't really have room for another right now. Ideally a building addition may happen in the next 10-15 years that would allow it to be put up. It will probably take that long to prep it out with just a handful of volunteer preparators, anyway. Since we already have one, any other critter would have been better because it could be used for fundraising for the addition. It would also be a good centerpiece of a teaching collection for a vertebrate paleontology course.

Dan

I'll volunteer to prep. it & clear all the racks of ammonites out of the wine press :goodbye: to make room for it !

I've never prepped a vertebrate before, there again I've not yet had time to prep. many invertebrates either :boohoo:

keep your eyes peeled for the press release of my Vendée plesiosaur, haven't found one yet but you never know as off on another expedition 'morra ! 8-)

Keef

Howdo all,

In an attempt to cheer myself up I went to the AMNH (American Museum of Natural History), sat down on a bench and put pencil to paper for the first time in many years. It'd been that long since I'd taken the time to draw from a model. Luckily, this one didn't move.

http://www.tonmo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1086&stc=1

That's the skull of Allosaurus fragilis. This drawing was the result of three trips to the Saurischian dinosaurs hall, and I'm resisting the urge to muck it up. As much as I enjoyed drawing it, I appreciated even more the conversations I had with children at the museum, and was happy to find that their parents encouraged their drawing habits.

Clem

:smile: Clem,

That is a fantastic illustration, I had no idea you were so talented at drawing. Brilliant.

How about the rest of the skeleton to go with it?

Phil

top job Clem, but which bit of an Allosaurus is it ?

Keef

Magnificent, Clem. I love how you can see the right maxillary teeth through the left nare. Have you considered a career in medical illustration?

Dan

How about the rest of the skeleton to go with it?
Eek.

Thanks so much for the positive feedback, all. I've no plans to make a career out of illustration. Right now, I'm thinking about what to draw next. The AMNH has a beautiful mount of Deinonychus antirrhopus in a leaping posture, and I'm sorely tempted by it. Unfortunately, there aren't any benches near that skeleton, and having a place to sit is a must when doing this kind of study. (Perhaps they'd let me bring in a collapsible stool?)

Dan, I'm really glad you noticed the teeth visible through the left nare. My interest in that particular detail determined the view I took of the skull: if I'd sat a foot to the left, those teeth would have been invisible.

Favorite exchange with the young folk:

Kid: Hey! If I come back in, like, an hour, could you tear that drawing out and give it to me?
Clem: No!

Cheers,
Clem

Showoff.

:notworth:

Showoff.
Refuses-to-be-photographed guy.
:razz:

Clem, your exchange with young ones seems to be much more harmonious than my exchanges with old people..... granted there is a lot of pushing and stairwells involved, but we wont speak of that.....

all in alll, i have to say well done.....

:thumbsup:

New ichthyosaur discovery from Cambridge, England. Well, they ate ancient cephs so I suppose it's vaguely relevant:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/city/2005/07/21/bfbcfdd8-7cc9-4b4b-ab7c-2d2927c8cd70.lpf

I've tried to take a couple of pics of my fossil insects in amber. Here's two of the results, nothing special, but it was fun trying.

Both are about 35-40 million years old and hail from the Baltic. The fungus gnat (lower picture) is about 5mm long, the other fly-like insect probably about 3mm.

http://www.tonmo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1277&stc=1

http://www.tonmo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1116&stc=1

Fantastic new ichthyosaur specimen may hold clues as to ancient Australian climate changes.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16108614%5E30417,00.html

I've tried to take a couple of pics of my fossil insects in amber. Here's two of the results, nothing special, but it was fun trying.


Phil, you're so modest ! pics are pukka :thumbsup:
tried foraging at the Pointe de Chay near La Rochelle today, zillions of fossil material but zilch of our favourite brand :sad:
Good news on the ichthyosaur front but why do these reports never have any pics ? humph !

Keef

410 million year old water fleas from Scotland! (http://news.scotsman.com/aberdeen.cfm?id=1832322005)

An interesting new interpretation of the Devonian Ichthyostega, one of the earliest fish to walk on land:

http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/biowissenschaften_chemie/bericht-48577.html

A follow-up story to the rumors of giant new ptersoaurs:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/09/09/pterosaur.reut/index.html

Just spent a showerless week diggin Falcarius (http://geology.utah.gov/whatsnew/news/new0505.htm) bones, about 5 miles or an hours drive (crawl) from town. The first photo is camp, and the second is the quarry.

Here are some pics of the hole I dug.

And a pic I took this morning up on the mountain, just to celebrate the first day of Autumn.

Is that Jim Kirkland I see holding the staff?

Yes, it is, the State Paleontologist, got his Phd working on ammonites.

Kevin, nice work if you can get it ! 8-)
Is there tension in the camp, tents look well spaced apart !

Keef

No pay for that work Keef, thats how I spent my summer vacation :wink:

And I think the spacing of the tents has more to do with a flat spot or strange noise avoidance rather than tension.
We spent 10 hours a day cooped up in the quarry, sun beatin down, with Frank Zappa, Muddy Waters or Led Zepplin on the CD player, how could there possibly be any tension. :lol:

...watch out where the huskies go

Kevin, I'd quite happily frag rock for no pay, come to think of it , I do !
Superb scenery to work in !
Keef

Four stories today:

15ft Icthyosaur found at Lyme Regis, Dorset (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/4339910.stm)

Buitreraptor gonzalezorum, a new bird-like dinosaur (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4337888.stm)

New search for 'Hobbit' hominids (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4339740.stm)

Stunning amber spider announced. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/4296398.stm)

There's a great new book on insect evolution out in July that has a chapter on arthropleurids, here's a link to the publishers listing for you. Seems like a must buy:

Evolution of the Insects (http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521821495)

Got mine today! So far I've done little more than flip through it, but it seems that it'd be worth the $84 (CDN) even if I happened to be completely illitruht. I don't think I own a more beautiful book; if I had a coffee table (with the scantlings of a North Sea oil rig :shock:), then I would certainly display this book on it. It seems that the content is well-written and of interested-layman-level sophistication, but with enough breadth that I may never read the whole thing. I would give my right leg for a similar book on cephalopods!

:trilobit: (close enough)

I don't think I own a more beautiful book; if I had a coffee table (with the scantlings of a North Sea oil rig :shock:), then I would certainly display this book on it.

Yep, it's a stunner isn't it. I got mine about two weeks ago as a very belated, by five months, birthday present from my sister. It is a beautifully produced book packed with hundreds of full colour photographs and diagrams and is quite understandable to anyone with a casual interest.

I had no idea that insects were so successful that only one super order has become completely extinct, the Carboniferous-Permian Palaeodictyropterida. Ever super-order that has ever evolved, aside from this one, has living examples.

These Palaeodictyropterida must have been an awesome sight, nestling on plants sucking their internal juices with their beaks. Some fossils even show bright patterns on the wings and some reached huge sizes, almost as large as the giant 'dragonflies'.

Fascinating stuff, highly recommended, and worth every penny.

I would give my right leg for a similar book on cephalopods!


It seems like there might, perhaps, be enough knowledge and talent on TONMO to collaboratively create such a thing, perhaps? Just planting the seeds of possibility...

An awesome sight indeed Phil! I have to admit going a little weak at the knees when this beauty popped open. Its been identified as a palaeodictyopteran wing and measures 12cm and thats with the tip missing. I'm guessing the whole beastie had a wingspan of around 26cm. You'd need a big fly swot if these things were still buzzing about! Its currently being written up so hopefully I'll have a species name for it soon.

Now I know what book to ask for for Xmas.

Andy

Holy frak, Andy. That is absolutely stunning; I can't believe the details in the preservation in that wing from something so old. That must be 250mya at least.

Is it possible you have actually discovered a new species????? :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:

Attached is a picture of Stenodictya, a palaeodictyopteran probably quite similar to Andy's find. It was taken from Grimaldi's and Engel's book as referenced above.

In the meantime, this (http://www.palaeos.com/Invertebrates/Arthropods/Insecta/Paleodictyoptera.html) may be of interest.

what a beautiful fossil Neuropteris, the veining is so delicate.....its incredible that it prerved so well!

J

Hey, I found this rare "fish"... um, I thought fish didn't have legs...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-bizarrerie-Liaoxi-china-fish-fossil_W0QQitemZ6569327234QQcategoryZ159 16QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

looks a bit more like a fossil amphibian.

I agree it looks more amphibian to me as well...........mind you the Hand fish has modified fins it walks on....................those limbs tho.......?

J

Fake, 99% paint :sad:

Creepy Crinoid (http://www.umich.edu/news/index.html?Releases/2005/Oct05/crinoid)

One of the most common fossils around here. Whole beds of Paleozoic limestones are made up of parts of the "stem". Thought to have anchored themselves to the bottom. Now look :shock:

New species of Pterosaur from the Isle of Wight described

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/10/18/reptile.fang.teeth.reut/index.html

Hmm....doesn't appear as a clickable link. Must have done something wrong (I've cut and pasted the address - any suggestions?)

Andy

Oh, now it has - must have done it right afterall!:grin:

Andy

'Godzilla', a 140m year old crocodile found in Patagonia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4424734.stm

Phil, pukka set of chops if you'll excuse my anatomical description

Keef

Phil, pukka set of chops if you'll excuse my anatomical description

Keef

Keef,

you've been watching waaaay too much Jamie Oliver :grin: !

J

Nice report about Godzilla and many other "Sea Monsters" in this months National Geographic (http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0512/index.html).8-) Only one pic showing a few belemnoid armcrowns :sad:

I just wish they would have named it Gojira instead of Godzilla.
OOPS, geek test I just failed.

Jean,
foodies !:roll: I've been "pukkaring" since before J-O dribbled in his 1st mash :baby: , I should be getting royalties :twocents:

Keef :sushi:

Jean,
foodies !:roll: I've been "pukkaring" since before J-O dribbled in his 1st mash :baby: , I should be getting royalties :twocents:

Keef :sushi:

:grin: (Actually I'm not a foodie! I may possibly have seen about 1/2 a Jamie Oliver programme!!)

J

that's 1/2 more than me !:lol: sounded like you were a member of the fan club !

Keef

that's 1/2 more than me !:lol: sounded like you were a member of the fan club !

Keef


errrrrrrrrr NO :yuck: I rarely watch food shows, use recipes (I have recipes books mind you.............gathering dust!) or get inventive in my cooking.

J

Forgive me, although I am a bit of a foodie, I've never seen Jamie Oliver's show. By the mention of pukka, I'm assuming there's some kind of Jamaican thing going on here. One of my fave West Indian Creole hot sauces is Busha Browne's Pukka Sauce.

Back on the subject at hand - amazing illustrations in the current National Geographic - but as Kevin pointed out, only a few panicked belemnites at hand. Great reptiles, though.

Pukka, in this context I think means that something is really good, or will be really good and is a Indo-British idiom dating from the days of the Raj, when an upstanding Brit in India would be a Pukka Sahib...........! :shock:

Was just in a local educational shop here and saw a lovely orthoceras fossil, the shop labelled it a "fish fossil"! No amount of talking (ranting :grin:) could convince them that orthoceras IS NOT A FISH!!!! May have to save up and buy it! ('twas pretty expensive!) :roll:.

J

amazing illustrations in the current National Geographic - but as Kevin pointed out, only a few panicked belemnites at hand. Great reptiles, though.

Just picked up my copy, there's some very nice illustrations in there. Pleased to see the belemnites were not depicted with tentacles, that would have been an easy mistake to make. :roll:

For some reason polished orthoceras assemblages seem really common in touristy trinket-type shops. I picked up a little one in Canterbury for just £1.50 the other day. I'm not sure where exactly they hail from but there must be beds upon beds of these things mined from somewhere or other. Just put 'orthoceras' into e-Bay and I'm sure at least a hundred of the things will pop up.

What, what! Toodle-pip old chap, as we said in Victorian Indiah.

errrrrrrrrr NO :yuck: I rarely watch food shows, use recipes (I have recipes books mind you.............gathering dust!) or get inventive in my cooking.

J

Me neither ! I have Mrs B instead

on the Indo-Anglo detour, apparently a good spell of play during a polo match is a "pukka chukka" :grin:

Phil sahib, all those millions of orthoceras are mined & polished for the world's "Ye Olde Fossil Shoppe" in Morocco along with the countless goniatites & cous cous :yuck:

Keef

8-) How about this for a stunning print of nautiloids and trilobites on e-Bay at the moment? That's just got to go on your wall Kevin.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ordovician-Trilobite-Cephalopod-print-by-Henderson_W0QQitemZ7370450560QQcategoryZ 20158QQcmdZViewItem

Yes, that would look nice on my wall.....Buy it now....:goofysca:

Phil, you can do way better than that !

Keef

:shock: http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=scienceNews&storyid=2005-11-30T184958Z_01_MCC067762_RTRUKOC_0_US-SCIENCE-SCORPION.xml

Thanks for the the link Monty, that's very interesting news. I've had a look around to see if I can find any more information on this giant Scottish sea scorpion and found this nice link with a reconstruction of Hibbertopteris:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/science/just-when-you-thought-it-was-safe-to-leave-the-water/2005/12/01/1133311132842.html

Edit: I've located the original report but it costs $30 to download. Here's the link if anyone feels they would like to:

http://foxtrot.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7068/abs/438576a.html

didn't our kilted friends also have some giant millipede tracks ?

Keef

Here's more details on the Scottish sea scorpion from the BBC. A bit naughty to nick this, but the picture below is of the trackway the beastie left. One can clearly see the marks left by the tail and the legs in the silt.

Gawd, I wish eurypterids were still here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4486830.stm

Gawd, I wish eurypterids were still here.


:shock:

well, you wouldn't need the macrolens for pix of that bug, that's for sure.

Well what do you know? A new Archaeopterix discovered. Ten-a-penny these chaps, cropping up on e-Bay all the time.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8408

UV image:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10283203/

And...

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8408

Amazing!

More on the Scottish sea scorpion:

http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2005/1130/2

Look, you can buy archaeopteryx on ebay for only 99 cents...

http://70.85.160.135/~starstar/photo/h094.jpg

Ha ha! That is truly awful, Cuttlegirl. The sad thing is that are probably some poor souls out there who fall for this sort of thing. After all, if there was not a market for these items, no-one would produce them.

Insects in amber are also commonly faked too. But not all are as easy to spot.

Jurassic Jokes, Solnhofen Silliness anyone?