I am currently raising a batch of 7 Bandensis. Originally, I had purchased 8 eggs in which all have hatched. However, after a water change, I found one of the babies dead the next day. Im unsure if this was related to the water change. Currently this batch is 1 month old and recently moved from eating mysids to larger shore shrimp.

Here are some pictures.

http://thetentacleparadox.com/images/150Tank/Eggs.JPG

http://thetentacleparadox.com/images/150Tank/Embryo1.JPG

http://thetentacleparadox.com/images/150Tank/Embyro2.JPG

Just Hatched
http://thetentacleparadox.com/images/150Tank/JustHatched.JPG


More recent pics coming up!

Go Daniel Go!

I'd forgotten how cute they are. Maybe I will try again next year ...

Hi :baby:. I remember how cute they are and how nerve-wracking that first month is...

Where'd you find eggs?

Awww....very cute.....good luck with them!:smile:

What are those giant black balls? Are they the eggs?

Chris

yes those are the eggs.

where does one purchase either eggs or young specimens?

Nice job Paradox! I read you, but I never say nothing because I have nothing to aport, I havn't tank and no octopus, the only that I have is ilusion and wanting to learn about ceph ( and english :tomato:)

Great job, man. Someday I'll hope to have a nice tank and animals like you or some have on this forum.

Good luck with it! Keep us informed.

Cheers
Carles

Let us know if your hands get too full...i'm sure many of us would be willing to buy the little buggers!

>: )

Lol, only joking. I'll be praying that they make it!!

Sorry for the late update. Here are some pictures and a quick video I threw together.

http://thetentacleparadox.com/images/150Tank/Bandesnis/Bigshrimp.JPG
With Big Shrimps in thier Mouths

http://thetentacleparadox.com/images/150Tank/Bandesnis/Red.JPG
Here they are in a dark red/maroon color.

http://thetentacleparadox.com/images/150Tank/Bandesnis/red2.JPG


http://thetentacleparadox.com/images/150Tank/Bandesnis/Dead.JPG
And unfortunately, an unexplained death occurred yesterday. So I have a total of 6 Bandensis at 1 months old.


http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/th_Bandensis4weeks.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/?action=view&current=Bandensis4weeks.flv)

Thanks everyone for the kind words. These eggs were from aquatropics in Gainesville. Ask for Munna. Nice guy.

Hopefully, Ill be able to get some viable eggs, but well see. *tentacles crossed* !!

Also for anyone interested, I purchased my mysids from http://www.aquaculturestore.com/ and did not experience much canabolism. I fed them frozen cyclopseeze or pellets.

hope they grow up well
i had an o. bimaculatus who hatched her eggs.none survived since they were planktonic and i couldnt feed them and they were killed by the filter.
anyway good luck!

MAY CEPHALOPODS BE BESTOWED ETERNAL GLORY!

This is a late update, but my cuttles are doing well. A couple months back, I got a single adult male from Thales since he had too much testosterone in his system. The adult male may be the end of his life cycle and has been in my main display for a couple months. It has recently showed less interest in food eating a large shore shrimp once a day or every two days. I believe this is due to him nearing the last stages of his life.

The juveniles are getting large quick reaching 1-1.75 inches. I have trained them to eat frozen shrimp and currently feed them Grass shrimp purchased from the local bait shop. This is the youngest Ive managed to train bandensis to do this and it will save me a lot of $$$. Feeding a lot of food since hatching allowed them to grow at a faster rate then I have ever had before. I also encouraged them to start eating prey much larger then they are early on, which improves their hunting confidence and allowed them to grow faster. This then saves me a lot of money because they can now eat frozen or live shrimp that is purchased by the lb at a bait shop verses shipping expensive live marine shrimp to my house.

Heres an image of the adult and a couple raw videos.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/DSC00005.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/th_MOV00040.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/?action=view&current=MOV00040.flv)

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/th_MOV00158.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/?action=view&current=MOV00158.flv)

Heh. You accompanied the vid with Ladytron. Cute! :)

Heres an update on my current batch of Bandensis in my 150.

A couple weeks ago, I transfered 3 bandensis of almost 4 months of age into the main 150 display tank. There was already an adult Male bandensis in the display. The adult is about 4 "s and full grown. The 4 month olds are about 2-3 "s. Once I placed them into the 150, signs of male aggression from the adult began. The adult male also seemed to force himself onto one of the females. Ive introduced different aged cuttles that have had no exposure to each other once before and did not have any problems. However, the adult male's aggression had me worried. I tried to catch the newly introduced cuttles, but was unable to. After the first day or so, it seemed that they have all accepted each other as tank mates.

Currently, I have 5 Bandensis. 3 males and 3 females. All have paired up. I have left a mated pair in the juvenile section, so I can observe them easier with egg laying.

Today, I noticed a black clutch of eggs in the main tank. Pretty much in the hardest area to reach! I believe they belong to the adult male and his mate for they hang out in this cave. Actually the mom looks like she is staring me down as if shes saying "Dont even think about it!" If they begin to inflate more, I will try to take them out and hopefully hatch them!

I dont have any pictures that are worth posting yet, but hopefully Ill be able to get some soon.

Heres a small list of things Ive learned so far with this batch and my current setup.

-Ive observed no change in comfort or distress with having the bandensis in a reef system with 250w halides.
-I have twice now introduced mixed aged groups of Aqua cultured bandensis without real problems.
-Bandensis will take frozen food earlier then I once though. Perhaps even after 1 month.
-For some pickier eating Bandensis, I had to poke at the frozen shrimp to make it look alive. Also, they were more confident at grabbing the shrimp if the back of the shrimp was facing the cuttlefish.


Tank statistics.

-Temp 76-78
-28" tall tank with 3x 250w hallides. Hallides are on 6-7 hours a day. The rest of the time, low wattage T5 bulbs are used.
-Salinity 1.026
Ca 450
Alk 10 dkh
Mag 1250
Nitrate 0
PO4 - Unknown, but Im starting to get a little algae, so a phosban reactor is going on soon.

The adult male mated with one of the 4 month old females? I didn't think they would pair up until they were nearer to the end of their lives, but it seems I was mistaken. Glad to hear all is going well.

I think I first observed mating at around 3.5 months. Eggs first observed today, at 4 months 1 week. The clutch of eggs look to be 13-15 eggs. Lets hope they are fertile! Lets also hope that they dont lay 100+ eggs like cuttlegirl's did! That would be a lot of eggs since I have 3 mated pairs!

Another note: None of the 4 month olds have the face burn that Thales current generation has.

Nice! :grin: I love it when this is happening!

You should easily get more than 100 eggs per pair if all goes well. I am anxious to see what the fertility rates are like in your tank.
The aren't really aqua cultured, they are captive raised. I think its important that we make sure to not confuse two!
3 months is when they start to show sexyness (my 3 month olds started yesterday).
Only 3 or 4 of my 10 or 12 had face burn. :grin:

Could you try to pay particular attention to the pairing - do they stay in the pairs, or do multiple males copulate with particular females?

Could you try to pay particular attention to the pairing - do they stay in the pairs, or do multiple males copulate with particular females?

Hey Rich, I noticed with this group and my previous ones that the males do have a 'chosen' female. In my last group, I had more males then females. The pairing stayed the same until one of the mated males died. The very next day, I saw the widowed female with a new male.

It appears that once a male and female pair up, the male becomes very protective of the female. He will stop any advances from other males. Perhaps its this male behavior that keeps them monogamous. :grin:

From watching your adult male in action, I feel that a much larger male may be able to force himself onto a mated pair. When I put the 4 months old with him (2 females and 1 male), The older male forced himself almost immediately onto one of the females. She was definitely unwilling for he would chase her around and eventually grab her with an arm. He would then position her to be face to face with him. After I put the 4 month olds in, I lost track of which female belonged to the 4 month old male. But It appeared that the larger male could have easily taken either. Regardless, after a few days, theres no fighting or chasing. They both are paired up and stay with the same female. Smalls signs of aggression appear through zebra patterns and displays, but nothing that worries me.

I feel that the even pairing of males to females really affects the harmony of the group. My last batches always had more males then females and fighting and biting etc were much more common. This also may be why it seemed my last batches were a little more active. They probably felt more threatened by each other all the time.

Hey Rich, I noticed with this group and my previous ones that the males do have a 'chosen' female. In my last group, I had more males then females. The pairing stayed the same until one of the mated males died. The very next day, I saw the widowed female with a new male.

Super interesting. In my tanks, they don't pair off unless I put a pair into their own area. I see a lot of the group behavior that gets talked about with S apima breeding in OZ - sneaker males and such.

It appears that once a male and female pair up, the male becomes very protective of the female. He will stop any advances from other males. Perhaps its this male behavior that keeps them monogamous. :grin:

Weird! Lots of group sex in my house.


I feel that the even pairing of males to females really affects the harmony of the group. My last batches always had more males then females and fighting and biting etc were much more common. This also may be why it seemed my last batches were a little more active. They probably felt more threatened by each other all the time.


This was my feeling too. Glad to have a preview of my plan before I do it in the next month or so!

Weird! Lots of group sex in my house.



Wow thats strange. Maybe its because of the crazy glass sculpture you have hanging in your cuttle room! Or perhaps its due to the amount of cuttles you have together. Right now, in the 150 are only 4 Bandensis. Thats a lot of room for them. The other 2 are in the juvenile section. How are yours divided up and how many do you have?

This one?:

May Not Be Safe For Work?

http://www.stickycricket.com/atomic/gallery/sutra.html

Whats so crazy about that? :grin:

My 3 monthers are all in one tank at the moment - 14 of them. I am waiting to see them make definite male/female action before I move them around.

That's wrong.

HAH! I just spit diet cherry pepsi all over my keyboard and monitor.

Hmm. I got in some trouble for that piece. I made it about restraint, but the crufication made it hard for people to see anything else. The story of my glass --- Hitlers with flowers in their hair went over somewhat better. :grin:

Sorry for the hijack!

LOL...yes thats the one Im talking about!

I actually just looked through your glass work section for the fist time the other day. Nice work. I like the one near your reef tank the best.

See! See how I had a problem! It didn't even occur that that pic might be not right for this site! :grin: I removed it but left the link - please someone let me know if the link should be removed as well!

Heres an update. The adults are doing great in the main display. Eggs began appearing on February 24th. The first hatchling appeared on March 29th. I now have 8 hatchlings and probably 30 eggs that look ripe. So maybe a total of 40 will be hatching from 100 or so eggs.

I currently have more eggs laid in the main tank that I have not removed yet. Maybe 60 or so.

Studies have shown cephs reproductive success and egg viability to be dismally low in captivity with percentages at around 10%. It is difficult to determine what affects this without having multiple seperate tanks with different conditions. For a month, I kept a mated pair in the juvenile section of my tank to try and document its breeding and egg laying. Most of the eggs from this pair were not viable. At the same time, a female that was mated with an older male (from a different source of eggs then the others) seemed to have much better success. However, I cannot contribute this success to this or the different conditions in the main tank. They share the same water, but differ in flow, rock structure and lighting

At present, all adult bandensis are in the main display. 6 adults. I can see cluster of eggs that seem all bad and another cluster of eggs next to it that look all to be good. I cannot discern between if they were laid by the same female or by seperate ones.

Water parameters:
-Nitrate 0
-Phosphate 0
-CA 460
-Alk 11 DKH
-Salinity 1.026
-Temp 76-78
-Mg 1260

-Flow: High- 2 vortechs on reefcrest -synched
-Lighting: 3x 250 watt SE Halide + 4x36watt T5
T5s on 9:30Am-8:00PM
1x250 Watt SE halide on 2:30pm-8:30pm
2x250 Watt SE halide on 3:30pm-11:30pm


I will have hatchlings for sale soon. These are captive bred and are 2nd generation. I will like for anyone interested in purchasing them to update thier experiences on Tonmo so we can track lineage as well as add to our knowledge of successfully breeding them.

So today I removed a cluster of eggs from the main display and later saw one of the females starting to lay eggs in this same spot! Ive only had the chance to see this occur once and by the time I ran to grab the camera, she was done. This time I was lucky enough to get a short video! I had to grab a clamp light since it was in a cave, so the lighting is pretty yellow. Before she began to attach the egg, I saw some black fluid being excreted from her siphon.

Heres a quick video of it...

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/th_EggLaying.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/?action=view&current=EggLaying.flv)

It seemed to take her about 8 minutes to lay the egg into her tentacles. I attempted to video the whole process prior to her attaching the egg, but of course the cameras battery ran out! During the 8 minutes, shes just hovering with her tentacles in a position where it looks like shes trying to get an egg out. I have a video of this, but its pretty boring. Ill upload it if anyone is interested.

Thats great - nice to see them in action...

Nice. The black fluid is ink - apparently she injects it into the egg just before laying.

Awesome video, Paradox! :notworth:

Probably not too many people have ever seen that before. I wonder if some of the ink might get squeezed out of the mother while she's laying eggs just because she's trying to squeeze big eggs out of a small opening and it squeezes the ink sac in the process.

Does anyone know of any references that discuss/show how cuttles lay eggs? Would be curious where the various bits and pieces are kept and how they make and get the eggs to stick to a stalk. Seems like it would be a pretty tight squeeze to get all those eggs inside my tiny female Bandensis...

= B =

eres a few cuttle pics taken by Eric Do, a member of BAR, our local reef club.

Cuttles gone Wild
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2881.jpg

Feeding Tentacles! (Funny how eric was able to capture this so easily when out of 1000s of pictures I think I only got 1-2 shots of this) This guy is over a year old now!
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2893.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2900.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2912.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2847.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2850.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2857.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2858.jpg

Heres a few coral shots. As you can see, Im still at the frag size stage for SPS. Im trying very hard to keep the open look, so Ive only added a few. I cant wait until they grow out! Again, these were taken by Eric.

Zoo mound
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2834.jpg

Im making an acan tower. (One thing about LPS I dont like is that most people have them grow to look like a mound. Shape means a lot to me aesthetically, so I made a spire and am placing acan frags on it to hopefully grow a acan tower. This is just the tip of it.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2839.jpg

Red with green base acro. This one will be nice all grown up!
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2849.jpg

Full tank shot
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2869.jpg

Maxima
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2875.jpg

Unknown acro I grew out of a brown nub. Its getting a nice royal blue
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Eric%20Do%20Pics/D2X_2887.jpg

Here are a few new pics I took with my crappy camera.

As mentioned earlier, Im trying to make more creative shapes for LPS, since 'mounds' annoy me. Here is a claw I made out of branch Rock. I hope to cover it with this war coral. To the right of the pic, you can see the top of my watermelon chalice spire.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/WarClaw.jpg
Just starting to spread out.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/WarClaw2.jpg


Balancing Act
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Balancingact.jpg

Babies In Zoos
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/BabiesInZoo.jpg

More male aggressive Display. Notice the bite mark on the top guys head.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/Cuttles/Aggressionjpg.jpg

What kind of camera does Eric have? He gets great shots!

Eric is a pro. I think he is currently shooting with a Nikon D200, but it may be a 300.

Small Update...

I often have random free floating eggs in the tank and if they are easy to remove and Im not lazy, I will get a hose and siphon them out. Ive found this to be the easiest way to remove eggs and babies.

I found a rnadom egg yesterday on a rock with a baby that looked fully developed!

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/PICT0004-1.jpg

Im pretty sure now that I must have some eggs that may have hatched in the main tank. Im really curious to know if they will survive off of the random copepod or small mysid population I have in the system.

Here are some pictures of newly removed eggs. Some you can cleary see the unborn hatchlings with a large heart shaped yolk sack.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/PICT0006.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/PICT0009-1.jpg

The eggs are so fragile, that its almost impossible to not cause early release of the babies when handling them. Hopefully this guy may survive.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/PICT0007-1.jpg

Ive also tried making a small cave out of a planting pot in hopes the cuttles will choose it for a den and lay their eggs in it. This would make egg removal much easier. This one looks pretty ghetto, but will go behind my rockwork and out of site. If they start using it, Ill probably start making ones that actually look nice and implement them into the system.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Paradox009/PICT0002.jpg


Im also working on a live mysid setup. I have access to local frehwater mysids, but have trouble keeping a large amount alive. Granted Im keeping them in a 5 gallon bucket with just a bubbler, but Im avoiding setting up a whole other system to keep them. So using items I already have here, Im connecting a drain tube to the 5 gallon bucket. The drain tube will be 25% down the top of the bucket, so it will not drain more then 25% water volume. The tube is connected to a solenoid connected to a timer to open the drain 15 minutes per day. I then will be adding a tube from my rodi to a float valve to the top of the bucket. This should cause a 25% automatic water change everyday and hopefully allow me to keep a high density of mysis alive in the bucket.

Ill posts some pics of this after its all completed.

That's pretty neat. They're pretty cute...

:welcome: to TONMO!