Ok, those of you whom I have communicated with will know why I used this name from Southpark. Anywho, I got him from Aquaculture on tuesday as well and wanted to wait a few days before posting this after my last few tries. I am having the same things Simple is having and I think I have the same little guy as well. I still had some fiddlers in the tank so I think he has eaten them as I have seen there husks.
Every night he seems to come out and find a place on the glass to "hang out" then by the time daylight comes in he is hiding again. Tonight I left for a half our to come back and see him on the glass-I went to thaw a shrimp to try one with him and came back and he was gone again lol grr. Soo, I will try to keep this updated and post photos when I get better ones. For now, these are from the first day when he came:

yup that looks like mine, cept mine has never even gone on the glass. And i doubt mines eating. But i did see her see her out at night. Well good luck with yours hopefully you can figure out something to coax them out that i can try with one

How bout the "horns"? I had not seen that on prior ones before.

oh no i dont think mine had the horns, but they can change texture as well so that may be the reason for them. He doesnt appear to have them in the pic of him acclimating..

I have a video of him when he first got in the tank--working on uploading it now--prob about 10 min I will post the link.

http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?p=104119#post104119
i posted a link to the paper i got on our new pets.. check it out.

If you octopus comes out at night, then he's probably nocturnal :smile:

Don't loose hope, he may adapt a bit to your schedule, or even a lot.
Few seem to be as nocturnal as the mercatoris. But you might try viewing with a red light to appreciate your octopus right now.

So welcome to Kenny.

Nancy

K, cut in half but both uploaded-- lol ignore the cooking show sound in the background my gf is watching

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bumCfXzSeDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faTvNOlPoRU

Cool :)

LOL, I think I actually need a heater for this guy--I have been worried bout my tank being to warm for a bimac but acording to the reading this guy likes it between 80 and 98-- lol omg, I need a warming blanket

yea it sort of seems like mine, at least from the few times ive seen mine. Just wondering, how big is your tank? and how much live rock is in it. I was thinking of taking some out of mine to give it more space to move around and swim. (i have 100 lbs)

65 gallon with 60lbs live rock

i have him in a 110 gallon so i guess hell be ok. Man its stressful not to see my octo, but im sure everything will be fine with both of ours..

I feel your pain

I love the "spikey" look of these guys. My mercs can form eye horns but not do the all over spikey thing. Good luck and keep posting your observations!

He came out in the night and created a small "nest" as best I can describe it in the corner on the sand!! I will see if I can get a photo but I might wait a few days as to not desturb him-- Basically its like a 2 inch wide concave depression in the sand that he has nestled down into. Then he blends his skin color to match! Really neat!

update- here is a photo of when I came home frrom work and he had left the nest to go back to the rocks. Kind of hard to show the depression but here it is.

He's out!! I doubled up the red paper and put the light on a timer to go off at 7pm. At about 8pm he came out to the left side of the tank again. This time he bounced up n down from the back of the tank to the front. Each time going a bit up as well. The only time stopping was when he would notice me. I dont dare pop the top to offer food though. I will wait till some more comfortableness. LOL, right now I can see that he just reached an arm up out of the water on the glass-- man I just want to interact...oh well the time will come, I just hope he will come out in the day too once he is more comfortable.

Wow im very glad your's is interacting, hopefully it means it wont be long till mine does..I didnt see her at all today though. Can you please tell me what goes on around her tank during the day, because i try to make it as comfortable as possible by moving slowly, having her tank lights off all day, only with the red lights on, and i also try not to do much in there besides sleep and go on my laptop, but still nothing..please any help would be greatly appreciated.

To be honest, no set structure yet, His tank is in my living room so anytime you walk in here it is near the tank. I think they are just a nervous breed at first--I guess as I would be too in the same senerio. I did the flashlight thing like you did too, lol I still do a bit to see if there are random fiddlers in there too. I did raise the temp to about 82 during the last 24 hrs so that might also be helping with the activity level. Dont get me wrong--this is the first time I have seen him since yesterday morning so its not like I have seen much difference yet--lol thats y I am too nervous to reach in and try to feed him myself.

Dam, while I was typing that last post I noticed kenny shoot from the bottom to the top and back again. I looked away to finish typing and he is gone into hiding again.. grrrr oh well I will be up awhile..

ok, do you think it matters that i have a 12 gallon nano reef in the same room as her? I mean its the only light in my room thats on right now and it has 65 watt lights but it really doesn't brighten up the octo tank much, and i dont have any lights on in the octo tank anyways..

I have a 20 gal ecllips set right next to it with my fiddlers, just lower so not much of the "white" light shows through the side of the octo tank. But, I also have both set on the same timer so they are on and off at the same time.

Did you figure out what kind? Best way to interact with a new octopus is to let him discover you mean him no harm. He's obviously very happy in his surroundings, but the trust issue takes time. Biddle was very skittish, I'd say for almost 2 months. I left him alone until curiosity got the best of him. Now he observes us and if we ignore him he finds a way to get our attention! Where in Jersey are you?

I live in Blackwood SJ, it is near Glassboro. As far as the kind-we are assuming these from Aquaculture.com are Abdopus Aculeatus

I live in Blackwood SJ, it is near Glassboro. As far as the kind-we are assuming these from Aquaculture.com are Abdopus Aculeatus

You mean LiveAquaria.com? :smile:

You mean LiveAquaria.com? :smile:

Ooops, you are correct!!! thanks, just so many sites I do that alot lol

Ok, another night and another sighting. Tonight I pushed it a bit farther. I offered some thawed frozen shrimp on a feeding stick. After a few moments he took it and the stick. I held the stick for about 2 min until it seemed like he let go. After about another 30 seconds he dropped the shrimp :( Anyway, It is about an hr and a half and he is still out. Actually he seems to have become quite fond of the out sponge from the skimmer. Giving it a bear hug exploring it I guess. ahh baby steps

Very good :) Perhaps a sign of gaining trust, or at least feeling comfy enough to tolerate the presence of you and your stick.

So far though, only red lights in the day and none at night(the only time he comes out) I hope I can help him work out of that cycle too.

I use ambient light in the day and red lights at night..

maybe someone else could chime in on this but try the red during the day for now then all off at night

OK, quick responses here please, I came home from work and Kenny is actually out of hiding, and with the light on. He is up where the sponge return is from the skimmer. Is this normal- should I be worried or checking anything? So far I have checked the nitrates and they are ok-well, there is a slight color on the test but not enough to register-- I think that would be .2 and I am in the process of testing the nitrites now.

Partial water change couldn't hurt...

K on it

It's always good to check as many water params as you can when an octo changes behavior, just to be safe, but it could easily be that he's just getting more comfortable or he's found a "new cool spot." Fontanelle (Thales' wunderpus) used to hang out behind the overflow, so it's not really unusual behavior... If he were trying to climb out of the water completely, that would be more worrisome.

yeah no climbing but according to the species reading this guy likes it warm so riight now its 84 and it says to stay between 80 and 98

If you are worried that the skimmer is damaging the octopus, turn it off for a while and see if the octopus stays there or not.

As for your light cycle, I wouldn't be planning a dramatic change. Over time you should be able to ween the octopus to a longer cycle, just don't do it quickly. Maybe a half hour more per week, as long as the octo seems used to the cycle he is on already. If the red light is the only light reaching the tank during the day, I suggest increasing that to give some daylight to your pet. Red is difficult for an octopus to see, which is why it is used for moonlights and is great for nocturnal species. If the octopus you have is truly Abdopus Aculeatus, it should be diurnal and I would guess that it hiding is just because it is not used to it's environment yet. With just red light and no light, you aren't giving your octopus much of a variation between day and night and it is probably going to stick to the schedule it had in the wild longer than if there was substantial difference. Remember if you do plan on changing the light cycle, do it slowly so you don't shock your animal.

Also 80 to 94 seems extremely hot for any species, though I am not a researcher :)

Glad to hear Kenny is getting more interactive. I hope your good luck with him continues.

Yeah, the temp is what worried me but It was the study that mosthated sent me. Since reaching the 80 mark he does seem more active. As far as the skimmer-I wasnt worried bout it hurting him, just that him being there might be a sign of something wrong. Oh, and the the light cycle-- right now there is ambient light in that room all day-my living room and has a sliding glass door with the shade always open. The red is on a timer on at 9am and off at 7pm for now. is that ok?

mine always hangsout by my maxijet powerhead, maybe they like the flow? i wouldnt worry...

Here are some shots I just got of him--the blurry one is just to give arm length

The only thing that I am worried about now is he is sitting there on the rock and acting like the first octo attempt I had--kinda turning his legs into knots. I have been told they do that to shed tentacles but because of last time I am a bit concerned. ok, alot :(

hopefully hes just active and not as shy anymore, if that is the case then you are very lucky, and hopefully mine will follow. I just found out it might not have been Fecha who ate the shrimp earlier =( since i just found a crab that was in there eating one. (it has been take out now)

The crab could have been just eating remains too so dont worry bout that part as much

his color looks still looks good, i was told they should be about 12" when they reach fullsize, so you can judge age by that a lil bit.. i wouldnt worry about that either, mine seems to curl its legs a lot and it will dangle two legs down a lot, sometimes it looks like it is standing on top of my maxijet with two legs touching the top of it and the rest curled up, but he is always pressed against the glass too. (he is just playing tricks on me). i would be happy he is out and about.

also my octo has rejected any offerings of shrimp since i added the fiddler crabs to the tank, i have found the remains of one eaten crab.. so i guess they like them.. he might be out hunting, if you dont have any in the tank i would add one or two.

thanks for all the info!!! its reassuring!!

also my octo has rejected any offerings of shrimp since i added the fiddler crabs to the tank, i have found the remains of one eaten crab.. so i guess they like them.. he might be out hunting, if you dont have any in the tank i would add one or two.

I typically keep 2 in there until I get to the point of hand feeding

yea, i ordered some fiddlers that should be here wednesday, since i dont think the shrimp are working. I tried to take a shortcut by buying bait shrimp, but i will follow you guys now, since both of you seem to be having better success than me. Please keep us updated on Kenny's new outgoing personality. Have you tried feeding again now that hes out?

I think the armspan on A. Aculeatus is larger than 12" full grown. I was thinking more toward 18", but after searching google can't find information on it. The ambient light in your living room should suffice as a good amount of daylight.

Rob,
I would not let the tank go above 80. The tank temp and oxygen levels really worry me. In the wild, the heat does not deterioriate the water and the current keeps refreshing the oxygen. In the tank, the higher temperatures the more chance of oxygen depletion and water quality issues from fecal mater and remains. Roy Caldwell (among others) has mentioned the oxygen problem during acclimation and that keeping the lower end of the temperature spectrum seems to aid in life extension (or keeping the high end speeds up the life cycle). Kenny may be staying closest to where the CO2 leaves the water (allowing for more oxygen). If you have a sump (I have forgotten), you might consider an air pump and air stone even at 80 degrees. Tonmo members have mentioned potential problems with putting too many bubbles in the tank but you can't have too much oxygen from aerating the sump and Roy found that adding aeration to the small chambers for new hatch increased their survival.

Rob,
I would not let the tank go above 80. The tank temp and oxygen levels really worry me. In the wild, the heat does not deterioriate the water and the current keeps refreshing the oxygen. In the tank, the higher temperatures the more chance of oxygen depletion and water quality issues from fecal mater and remains. Roy Caldwell (among others) has mentioned the oxygen problem during acclimation and that keeping the lower end of the temperature spectrum seems to aid in life extension (or keeping the high end speeds up the life cycle). Kenny may be staying closest to where the CO2 leaves the water (allowing for more oxygen). If you have a sump (I have forgotten), you might consider an air pump and air stone even at 80 degrees. Tonmo members have mentioned potential problems with putting too many bubbles in the tank but you can't have too much oxygen from aerating the sump and Roy found that adding aeration to the small chambers for new hatch increased their survival.

Question? What problems with the bubbles? Because I was also concerned about the oxygen level so my one small intank powerhead I turned on the air intake so it would produce some as it pushes the water. I have already turned off the heater as well and started lowering the temp too. Still, I had not read anything bout the bubbles before.

Rob,
I think the jury is mixed on bubbles. Several people have noted that their octos will play in them but others have mentioned problems with bubbles getting into the mantle and not being expelled. I will look for a couple of the posts with pros and cons and get back to you in a short.

This is one by Roy Caldwell (Berkeley Prof, Christy's mentor and fantastic photographer):
http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10013

another note by Roy on acclamation and oxygen concerns
http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11432&highlight=oxygen

Roy and Jean discussing micro bubbles
http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?p=95375&highlight=bubbles#post95375

A discussion on bubbles:
http://www.tonmo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8435&highlight=bubbles

:angel: At 1145pm tonight Kenny Died. Those of you who have helped me know this is just frustraiting. He was my 4th in a month to attempt to try the octopus interaction--and my 4th failure. I have had my water professionaly tested, made any adjustments to different breeds of octo, tried both newborn and young, 3 different breeds--all to no success. :banghead: Many of you have been very positive for me to continue--I appreciate this soo much. This time hurt even more because the others only lasted a couple days.. Kenny was exactly a week, I figured I was over the "hump"--heck, I even told other people today that I had tried again(yeah I waited till today cause of my recent luck) As of tomorrow the tank becomes our new "fish" tank because I know when I should and shouldnt do something and I reached that point. As a result I prob wont be on here to much now-well for obvious reasons. Simple--good luck with yours and dont get discouraged, I am sure you will have great fun with yours. Anywho, It was by all means my pleasure interacting with all of you and wish you the best of luck with all your lil friends!!

:goodbye:

My fluval still shoots out microbubbles periodically, though my skimmer no longer produces them thanks to a series of prefilter sponge. It's better to be safe then sorry with bubbles.

Sorry to hear about your octo! This death seems extremely sudden. Were there no signs? Has your tank been test for copper or other heavy metals? Did you watch him go, or you found him dead?

Sorry to hear about it again, I hope to see you back someday.

RIP Kenny :angelpus:
I'm so sorry for you - I know you really liked them all.
It's tough that you could never find any reason for losing the little guys.


Nancy

My fluval still shoots out microbubbles periodically, though my skimmer no longer produces them thanks to a series of prefilter sponge. It's better to be safe then sorry with bubbles.

Sorry to hear about your octo! This death seems extremely sudden. Were there no signs? Has your tank been test for copper or other heavy metals? Did you watch him go, or you found him dead?

Sorry to hear about it again, I hope to see you back someday.

Yeah, the tank and water has been tested for everything and came out with flying colors. I saw him on the side of the glass then he just dropped--I went over to look and he wasnt moving. You can see some of the pics I took just a couple hours ago.. I hope to be back someday too..

RIP Kenny :angelpus: that's really rough. I can understand how you're feeling frustrated, but I've gotta say that I'll miss you if you're not around, although I don't want to push you to be here if it'll stress you out, either. It's really stressful when you lose pets even though you've made every effort to do everything right for them. Sorry. :sad:

:angelpus:RIP Kenny....Sometimes there are no answers. Question....were all from the same supplier? I'm thinking not. And was your tank ever coppered? Seems to be a possible answer. Any pieces of metal in the tank that you may be unaware of? When I began, I too had many deaths but years ago info on their care was not available, so I know it was my own error from lack of knowledge. I hope someday you will try again as they are worth the effort.

:angelpus: RIP Kenny.

so sorry for you loss!
i wouldnt think oxygen levels would be a problem for anyone running a decent skimmer, or a skimmer at all..

So sorry to hear about it, i was liking Kenny so much, i even sort of thought of him as a way of looking at mine, since they looked so alike. Well good luck with starting with fish and hopefully someday you can try again with octopuses. I know this doesn't help much but the guarantee on your octo is still in place, and that could help you get started with your new fish. I'm so sorry about Kenny.

:angelpus:RIP Kenny....Sometimes there are no answers. Question....were all from the same supplier? I'm thinking not. And was your tank ever coppered? Seems to be a possible answer. Any pieces of metal in the tank that you may be unaware of? When I began, I too had many deaths but years ago info on their care was not available, so I know it was my own error from lack of knowledge. I hope someday you will try again as they are worth the effort.

Yeah, the 4 octos were from 3 different suppliers and the tank was brand new from the store-not second hand. I had direct contact with everything put in the tank as well. My biggest problem is I have no idea what was the problem now-so no way to know if it is fixed.. we will see I guess.. thanks for the sentiments..

so sorry for you loss!
i wouldnt think oxygen levels would be a problem for anyone running a decent skimmer, or a skimmer at all..

Me either, and I was running a skimmer, powerhead, and a canister filter... :banghead:

The only suggestion I might have for you is now that your tank has been set up for three months, you might want to wait a little bit before trying again. This tank has had a lot of biomass in it and you might want to give the bacteria in the live rock a chance to stabilize. While I know that your chemical parameters have been stable there are other things going on in your tank that won't show up on standard nitrate/nitrateammonia tests.

So sorry to hear about it, i was liking Kenny so much, i even sort of thought of him as a way of looking at mine, since they looked so alike. Well good luck with starting with fish and hopefully someday you can try again with octopuses. I know this doesn't help much but the guarantee on your octo is still in place, and that could help you get started with your new fish. I'm so sorry about Kenny.


Ya know what simple, you just gave me one last piece of good advice--Thanks!! When I read about the guarentee I thought since the octo is considered "expert" that they would not be under that--I was wrong, I just called them and they gave me a full refund. Again, thanks alot and good luck with your lil girl!!

glad to be of any help, good luck to you as well.

Rob,
Please don't be a stranger. I would like to suggest that you even consider updating Kenny's journal with the progress of your alternate tank for awhile. It may be helpful and provide some clues. I lost my second and third dwarfs in a tank I have yet to put anything else in (two weeks to the day for both of them even though my first one - in a different tank - lived exceptionally long after the birth of her young).

I would almost suspect cyanid the way this one died but DrsFosterandSmith and associates pride themselves in trying to do things right so the odds are tipped in their favor that this is not the case.

Rob,
Please don't be a stranger. I would like to suggest that you even consider updating Kenny's journal with the progress of your alternate tank for awhile. It may be helpful and provide some clues. I lost my second and third dwarfs in a tank I have yet to put anything else in (two weeks to the day for both of them even though my first one - in a different tank - lived exceptionally long after the birth of her young).

I would almost suspect cyanid the way this one died but DrsFosterandSmith and associates pride themselves in trying to do things right so the odds are tipped in their favor that this is not the case.

I check in every so often. Here are some pics of the fish I have had in there now. I guess for the past almost 2 weeks... knock on wood but no ill fates so far...

and 3 others...

awesome. just make sure the mandarin and the butterfly fish get enough to eat. Im guessing it will be a FOWLR tank right?

LOL excuse my ignorance-- what is a FOWLR tank? And yeah, I have 2 mandarins and they have plenty to eat along with the butterfly.

LOL excuse my ignorance-- what is a FOWLR tank? And yeah, I have 2 mandarins and they have plenty to eat along with the butterfly.


FOWLR - Fish Only With Live Rock

FOWLR - Fish Only With Live Rock
Ahh yeah I guess it would be but, I do still have my cleanup crew of hermits and snails and one shrimp. Oh, I do still have some of my fiddlers in there too and today my spotted boxfish took one out. I have to say I was pretty impressed, the fiddler is about 1/2 his size.

well FOWLR basically just means no corals, or anything of that sort. basically if its not a reef tank

Dude, I hate to be the killjoy here, but dang, that's a lot of fish to add in such a short period of time. Beautiful fish though. My girlfriend really wants one of those Boxfish/Cowfish but I remind her they grow to the size of a football and potentially toxic.

Hope it keeps working for you. I turned my 75 into a Frogfish tank and got some T5 lights to add some coral pieces.

Dude, I hate to be the killjoy here, but dang, that's a lot of fish to add in such a short period of time. Beautiful fish though. My girlfriend really wants one of those Boxfish/Cowfish but I remind her they grow to the size of a football and potentially toxic.

Hope it keeps working for you. I turned my 75 into a Frogfish tank and got some T5 lights to add some coral pieces.

Oh wow, here is a quote on some info I found about him--btw, the friggin lfs didnt tell me they grow that big or the venomous part--as well as I let them know the tank and situation he was going in..

Found this on another site on the longhorn:
grows up to 18 inches
The Longhorn Cowfish prefers a tank of at least 150 gallons with plenty of places to hide & swim.
Level of Care: The Longhorn Cowfish is a high maintenance fish.
Behavior: The Longhorn Cowfish may act peacefully toward other fish. It is a venomous fish, ostracitoxin. Warning signs include stress and concavity in the side walls.
Hardiness: Difficult to keep in capitivity

Sofar he has been the opposite of this--very docile, very easy--to me as well and very small-he is barely an inch in size.. anyway, looks like I am finding a new home for him soon--and I liked him, he interacts with me the most.. :sad:

Oh wow, here is a quote on some info I found about him--btw, the friggin lfs didnt tell me they grow that big or the venomous part--as well as I let them know the tank and situation he was going in..

Found this on another site on the longhorn:
grows up to 18 inches
The Longhorn Cowfish prefers a tank of at least 150 gallons with plenty of places to hide & swim.
Level of Care: The Longhorn Cowfish is a high maintenance fish.
Behavior: The Longhorn Cowfish may act peacefully toward other fish. It is a venomous fish, ostracitoxin. Warning signs include stress and concavity in the side walls.
Hardiness: Difficult to keep in capitivity

Sofar he has been the opposite of this--very docile, very easy--to me as well and very small-he is barely an inch in size.. anyway, looks like I am finding a new home for him soon--and I liked him, he interacts with me the most.. :sad:

Sorry dude. I really like those fish too, they're cute and personable, and my girlfriend was REALLY trying to convince herself it would be okay to put a 1" sized one in her 60 gallon seahorse tank but I talked some sense into her. They're only poisonous if they die or if you eat them, from what I understand... but yeah, size is the main concern as long as the fish is healthy.

Once more, the ignorance and/or greed of the business strikes again.

My gf and I are planning on moving into a larger place after the holidays. At that point we are going to get a larger tank for the saltwater. She is still going to convert that one to FW for her other fish and we will get the nec. size to handle the larger fish at that point.

MTS strikes again, love it!
Rob,
Two things you might find of interest about your mandarins.

One, if they are not opposite sexed, separate them! It is relatively easy (in spite of what is written) to determine male from female by the length of the top fin, the male's being almost twice as long.

Two, I have mine eating frozen mysis very successfully. All those pods you had will feed them for awhile but they are notorious for starving and do best in a tank where there are only other slow eaters. My female learned to eat the mysis from a particular seahorse, not the seahorses, but one special one that paid attention to her and visa-versa, really neat to watch the interaction. Dini (as in Houdini) would watch Trigger eat and Trigger (the seahorse) would watch Dini scare up live food. When we finally found the right sized male, Dini then taught Harry to eat the frozen food. I would recommend trying to get them to eat something frozen (mine will also eat Cyclop-eeze and learned that on their own) before your pod population is fully depleated. I have also tried black worm with mine but they are hard pressed to eat them. We have had Dini for over two years (maybe over three, I can't remember for sure) and Harry well over a year so they seem to do well on the food.

MTS strikes again, love it!
Rob,
Two things you might find of interest about your mandarins.

One, if they are not opposite sexed, separate them! It is relatively easy (in spite of what is written) to determine male from female by the length of the top fin, the male's being almost twice as long.

Two, I have mine eating frozen mysis very successfully. All those pods you had will feed them for awhile but they are notorious for starving and do best in a tank where there are only other slow eaters. My female learned to eat the mysis from a particular seahorse, not the seahorses, but one special one that paid attention to her and visa-versa, really neat to watch the interaction. Dini (as in Houdini) would watch Trigger eat and Trigger (the seahorse) would watch Dini scare up live food. When we finally found the right sized male, Dini then taught Harry to eat the frozen food. I would recommend trying to get them to eat something frozen (mine will also eat Cyclop-eeze and learned that on their own) before your pod population is fully depleated. I have also tried black worm with mine but they are hard pressed to eat them. We have had Dini for over two years (maybe over three, I can't remember for sure) and Harry well over a year so they seem to do well on the food.


Thanks D, I did not know that about the mandarins but I think I am in luck. I got the pair at the same time from SWF.com and I had already noticed the fin difference. The one seems to raise his up almost like a sailboat mast.
As far as food, I do have the frozen mysid as well as frozen variety, slow sinking marine pellets, live black worms, dryed seaweed, shrimp pellets, Spirulina algae flake, tubifex worms, and variety wafers. I guess you could say I have a lot of choices. I rotated in and out a few of them with the different feedings each day because of the wide variety of fish in there. Later today I will be also getting the Cyclop-eeze as I knew this was also good for them, just a much more expensive food source.
BTW, I do have a bit of a success/survival story! My gf's sister works for the local Fedex. She called a few days ago to say that she had a box of live fish that was not able to be delivered and the customer said they were not picking up because they cancelled the order. Then the customer said they would still pick them up-and nevered showed. Well, these poor fish had to wait in there packaging for almost 2 days from intial shipping because of this communication. So she let me know and I took them off her and started drip acclimating(a little faster than normal because of the situation). The only death was a clam-other than that I saved a small yellow tang, some hermits, a cucumber, and a lettuce nudibranch. Oh, and that shipment came from: SWF.com!! So, just one more reason I value there shipping-these fish survived 2.5 days in there packaging. Just thought I might share that tidbit about them..