would a bimac octo like matis shrimp? i figure it's usually a hated hitchiker and LFSs may just giv them out or sell them cheaply? just an idea.

Not a good idea -better to buy frozen shrimp for your octopus. A mantis shrimp can kill an octopus (and vice versa) but you don't want to take any chances.
If you want to feed live shimp, try the common shore shrimp.

Nancy

sindas,
Roy Caldwell (Neogonodactylus) did a brief experiment (very brief) at Berkeley introducing a mantis and a blue ring. As I recall the expectation was that the octopus would consider the shrimp as food. The actual results were startling. The speed of the shrimp to spot, take down and kill the octo was almost too fast for the camera. I believe Roy still has this video posted on reef central and if this post is not enough to convince you to avoid an encounter, please research it further.

http://www.reefcentral.com/vid/bluering/bluering_content.html

Mantis Shrimp are evil. LFS won't give them out, they sell them for about $20-$30 as people are willing to keep them because they are interesting.

I have seen video of this occurring in the wild. It would definitely not be the first food of choice but is a known natural prey item of octopods.

There is a possibility of injury to the octopus as with live crabs as well.

Be prepared.

Greg

The difference between a mantis shrimp and a crab is the Mantis will generally be smarter, stronger, and more aggressive. An octopus has a much greater chance of being successful eating a crab than a Mantis Shrimp.

PS - That video is really sad! I was thinking of a (pretty much) full size octo and a mantis that was at most half the size of the octo. My thoughts were reversed from what it really was though. I didn't see any ink from the blue-ring, which seems weird to me. Is it noticeable when they release TTX or is it only through a bite?

The difference between a mantis shrimp and a crab is the Mantis will generally be smarter, stronger, and more aggressive. An octopus has a much greater chance of being successful eating a crab than a Mantis Shrimp.

PS - That video is really sad! I was thinking of a (pretty much) full size octo and a mantis that was at most half the size of the octo. My thoughts were reversed from what it really was though. I didn't see any ink from the blue-ring, which seems weird to me. Is it noticeable when they release TTX or is it only through a bite?

I don't think the octopus in that video had a chance to ink, or even see more than a flash of the Mantis before it was too late. It was most likely dead/severely damaged on first contact and the Mantis just kept pounding away to make sure.

There's video of one in the documentary film "Ocean Deep" defending its hole from an Octopus, appears to be a large Bimac. It was much smaller than the octopus, but it kept approaching the octopus, striking it, and running away until the octopus got the point and left it alone.

I've seen a large Mantis chop a damsel right in two, about as fast as this one hit that octopus. Ferocious creatures. I could have had one for free, but I didn't want to find out what would happen to my fingers if I made a mistake.

omg...wow


im so glad i asked this question on here. i'm gonnna have to make sure i don't get one of these from live rock and if i do get rid of it, i never even imagined one could take on an octo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu6yrC6bjNo

After seeing this video, mantis shrimp look way too aggressive.


And here's an actual octopus VS mantis shrimp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt55yPxTxyA

That second link is the exact part of the documentary film I was referring to, maybe it's "Deep Sea"... all those film titles confuse me. Johnny Deep narrates.

I'm terrified of these things now, they look like they came straight from the depths of hell.

I'm telling you, they are EVIL!!! I have read of people getting their fingers severely damaged; sliced and/or broken by them, not to mention some of them can comepletely shatter a tank. Most of the Mantis' stay small, around 4", but the Peacocks grow to about 12". Thank goodness they don't get any bigger than that, as far as we know.

Googled "Mantis Shrimp Injury" and found this from Dr. Roy Caldwell.

How dangerous are the strikes of common mantis shrimps to humans? (Dr. R. Caldwell)

I handle stomatopods every day in our lab and when I'm in the field it is not uncommon to measure and sex 150 animals in an evening. Needless to say, I'm struck fairly often. Some species are far worse than others, but it usually hurts. Even a 2 cm Gonodactylus can draw blood and a 4 cm animal can drive the dactyl tips to the bone. Aside from a two inch slice in my hand made by a large lysiosquillid (by the uropod spine, not the dactyl), the most severe injury I have incurred was from a 7 cm Gonodactylus chiragra that drove its dactyl into the joint of my index finger and the tip broke off. It took some minor surgery to remove it. But that is nothing compared to what happen to a diver from South Africa who wrote me a few years ago describing his attempt to grab by hand an 18 cm Odontodactylus. The animal severely injured his finger which became infected by a chiton-digesting bacteria. The infection did not respond to the usual antibiotics. In the end, they amputated the finger. Be careful out there!

- Dr. Roy Caldwell

If you say more bad things about Mantis shrimp I'm sure Neogonodactylus will give you an earful. I think they would be cool to have as a pet. I just don't know how to properly care for them and haven't really researched anything as of right now.

Don't get me wrong, I think they're absolutely fascinating and magnificent creatures. They're just not to be underestimated when it comes to their destructive abilities. For a species only tank they would be great.

Like I said, I could have had one for free, it was a tempting offer, but I don't want to risk getting my fingers pulvarized.

I just returned from northern Queensland where I was able to collect several A. aculeatus. One was in the act of preying on a large (7 cm) Gonodactylus smithii) which it had bitten and was holding, but which was not yet dead. Stomatopods make up a substantial part of the diet of my octopus species - and many stomatopods eat octopus. As usual, it all has to do with relative size.

Roy

stomatopods are SO cool! i'd like a peacock spec. tank, but i guess it has to be made of steel or maybe adamantium or somthing... anybody knows what size of tank could hold an animal like that?

Go to reefcentral.com and find the mantis shrimp forum and at the top there is a list (made by Roy) that tells you all about lots of stomatopods.

A friend of mine did an internship at the Smithsonian, sorting whale stomach contents (thank goodness that wasn't my first marine bio project... doubt I would be here! She's in med school now :roll:). Among the hundreds of ceph beaks, in many whale stomachs (sorry, I can't remember what species), she would find the remains of one - and only ever one - stomatopod.

A friend of mine did an internship at the Smithsonian, sorting whale stomach contents (thank goodness that wasn't my first marine bio project... doubt I would be here! She's in med school now :roll:). Among the hundreds of ceph beaks, in many whale stomachs (sorry, I can't remember what species), she would find the remains of one - and only ever one - stomatopod.

Hmm, any theory as to why just one?

Taste bad? :yuck:

Maybe the squid was in the middle of eating the stomatopod...

No theories with any scientific merit :wink:, but we speculated on potential damage done to a whale's mouth/throat by an angry stomatopod in mid-swallow... steep learning curve or maybe too late??

No theories with any scientific merit :wink:, but we speculated on potential damage done to a whale's mouth/throat by an angry stomatopod in mid-swallow... steep learning curve or maybe too late??

Hah, cool, that was my other idea... would be like swallowing a razor blade. Then again, wouldn't the same be said for hooked squid tentacles? Perhaps by the time they're in the mouth they aren't latching onto any internal surfaces... but I think that's a valid hazard to consider when eating live octopus... that the arms can latch on and choke a person, so I would think the same of a squid, and much more so with the hooks.

Mantis Shrimp are evil.

This is obviously an old thread and was before my time here... but uh, AM? I currently have three mantis shrimp who are convinced that YOU'RE the evil one! :wink:

Now that I've found this thread, I feel the need to share...

In order of appearance:
Michelle (H. glyptocercus)
Jackie (G. smithii)
Elvira (O. latirostris)

Hehe. I'd keep one. They're just wicked. I'm convinced we have or at least had one in our 60 gallon seahorse tank. We heard popping occasionally for a long time. Usually several over just a few seconds. We noticed our small snail population is 0. All the really big ones are fine. Emerald crabs disappeared. Surprisingly the peppermint shrimp are fine though so that throws me off. There's a very large piece of rock in the back (25-30lbs) full of holes and another 30lbs in front of that so moving the rock is a bit of a hassle or I already would have gone searching for the source of the popping.

We moved all the horses and fish over to the new big tank and haven't heard much snapping since. Except for the pistol in the new tank, and that makes a different, louder "pop", and always only one pop.

Ohh, I like Elvira! Maybe my next friend should be a mantis shrimp instead of a cuttlefish...

Elvira is pretty! How big is she?

I just saw a beautiful 4" peacock and 6" zebra mantis at my LFS, I was contemplating for a while putting them into my recently empty 29.

Elvira is pretty! How big is she?

She's about 2.5" inches now.

I just saw a beautiful 4" peacock and 6" zebra mantis at my LFS, I was contemplating for a while putting them into my recently empty 29.

Mixing mantis isn't advised. The peacock in a 29 would work, but the zebra is going to need a larger tank and a very deep sandbed to burrow.

Oh no I wan't contempating mixing lol. Just one or the other. I can only imagine the brutal wars that would ensue. Because of the size of both I would actually be nervous about them breaking the glass when digging, which would flood right onto my bed, and maybe me when I was sleeping since its right by the side of my bed!

Oh.. sorry! :smile: If your tank is currently empty, you can cut a piece of acrylic to fit the bottom and prevent damage when it burrows.

Wow, Elvira is stunning!

I'm telling you, they are EVIL!!! I have read of people getting their fingers severely damaged; sliced and/or broken by them, not to mention some of them can comepletely shatter a tank. Most of the Mantis' stay small, around 4", but the Peacocks grow to about 12". Thank goodness they don't get any bigger than that, as far as we know.

I know this is an old thread but an adult peacock can only reach a max of 7 inches, 12 inches is more like the zebra mantis but those can reach 15inches

I know this is an old thread but an adult peacock can only reach a max of 7 inches, 12 inches is more like the zebra mantis but those can reach 15inches

Well I won't claim to be an expert. I try to gather the most accurate info I can when I'm reading online, but as I'm sure you know, the internet is a great source of misinformation!

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

There is a peacock at my LFS right now that's probably 6-7 inches. Wish I had my 30 gallon going but I have enough to keep me busy ATM.