Hi,
I’m a student volunteering at EPA setting up display tanks in Rhode Island, US. There isn’t a whole lot of interesting species in Narragansett Bay, so I started asking around what types of things could I put into these 50 gallon tanks? I guess in the past someone tried putting in an octopus, but apparently the person who was feeding it didn’t understand that you actually had to put on the cover perfectly or else it’ll escape. That lasted a couple of days, but that was before my time. I started looking up octos but i came across cuttlefishes. I’m 16 by the way.
So, getting to the point, I was interested keeping a cuttlefish in one of the tanks. I have 6-50 gallon flow through tanks set up. they're each set at 21 degrees and they should stay constant all the time. I was wondering if I had to worry about anything like ammonia, nitrate, and pH since it’s flow through. Also, I was wondering what size cuttlefish (i was looking at Sepia officinalis) would be best for a 50 gallon tank. The tanks have the same width as height, I think its 1-1/2’ X 1-1/2’ X 3’, but I’m not certain. Also, I have already put down the same gravel in all of the tanks- its “Estes’ Ultra Reef Dolomite”. Would a cuttlefish be able to burrow in that, I’m not sure if it’s too sharp or if it’ll irritate its skin. Also, how clean would I have to keep it? I’m going to school soon and the only days where I could come and check on it (other people can feed it) would be Monday and Friday.
I think it would be awesome to have a cuttlefish for the public to see, though I would have to post a sign on how to act towards it-“don’t move too quickly” or something like that. Would it be wise for me to get a cuttlefish? What would I have to look out for? I know that you have to be careful with cephalopods but what will the flow through sea water do?
Thanks for your help.
-Mike

:welcome: to TONMO.com Mike,
Unfortunately, getting a cuttlefish in the US is not an easy task. There are a few reasons for this, first, there are no cuttlefish species native to the US. Secondly, cuttles don't exactly ship too well, third, most of the imported cuttles are sepia bandensis (see my pic below) which usually arrive as adults which means they don't have long to live.

So, I don't think getting a cuttle is a good idea, an octopus like a O.bimac would be better and can be purchased from www.fishsupply.com

By the way Tony, how do you get the pic small enough to turn it into an avatar?

Hi Mike, :welcome: to TONMO.com

One of the 1st problems you may have is in actually getting a cuttlefish or two for display purposes, as they are not native to the USA and that they are poor travellers are the first two problems. Most imported cuttles die in transport.

However, as you are a student you may be able to order sepia officinalis from the NRCC in Galveston. But they only seel to educational places like unis so you will have to see what you can come up with for that??? http://www.nrcc.utmb.edu/

By flow through do you mean that the water comes directly from the sea to the tank and back or that there is a big filter sump that all tanks are connected to? It is worth doing as many tests on water quality as you can to the system... ammonia and nitrtites are killers so best check anyway.

The best sand would be silver sand, they wont be able to bury in dolomite and if the tank is part of a system then you wont need to worry about pH and Hardness which is why most people use dolomite

Cuttles are really messy so you need to ensure that the tank is kept well clean with no uneaten food and unlike an octopus a cuttle especially a S. officinalis at that temperature will need daily feeds!

Cuttlefish on public display are prone to inking due to getting a fright so you'd maybe want the cuttle tank to be the last tank before the end of the system to deal with the ink... but then the O2 level of the water is going to be lowest by that point so you would need some hefty aeration in the water.. again because 21 is high for S. officinalis

hope this helps for a start
C

actually, I was planning on emailing the NRCC to see if they could send me a cuttle. the flowthrough basically takes the seawater from the bay (like 100,000 gal of fresh seawater an hour or something like that) , sends it into a huge filtration system (which needs to be cleaned weekly) and sends it to all of the tanks in the lab. actually, the tanks i have are heated so i could drop the temp (it's good for temps in between 15-25).
Yah, i also had a feeling the gravel wouldn't work either. could I set up more rocks (not too many to hurt itself) so it could hide more? I could also put it in the back row where there is a lot less traffic.
The stuff I have currently is a sea robin, a cunner tank with some crabs and hermit crabs, a crab tank, and a tank with a mantis shrimp in it.
The mantis shrimp alone reeked a bunch of havok :D I guess some have been reported to break aquaria glass; also they eat LIVE food so some people have ethical problems. but this one is a "slasher" (opposed to a "smasher" that break the aquaria and can send their claws like a 22 cal. rifle bullet). they will eat frozen squid though.
thanks a lot! i have to wait a week for my supervisor to get back from a vacation...
mike

I was looking at the NRCC website and was interested in the cuttles that were 20mm-60mm. Would that be ok for my tanks? Too large/small?
would it really be better if I get an octo instead of a cuttlefish?
I was looking at my past posts and relized how terrible I worded them.
I also collected stuff today by saining-the most interesting thing i found was a pipe fish which I really like. so far I have 3 tanks set up out of the 6.
thanks again for all of your help! I hope this will pull through...
Mike

actually, I was planning on emailing the NRCC to see if they could send me a cuttle.

What I did is that I told them to ship it to my uni because I was researching info on them and I needed one, I had to give them the uni's shipping address, I also stated that I was a student because I am lol, it worked out allright.If you say that you're just a advanced aquarist they will definelty will not take the time to listen you out, say that you're a student and give them the uni's shipping adress, mind you I got the octo the next day by fedex, quick delivery. :)

I also forgot to add that the fish in the tanks I'm setting up are all from here and the water gets really cold here, down to 0 degrees C (which means my fish love colder water) but we will heat it for the winter. So I'm not sure if I could keep an octo. the tanks are set up in two rows, one facing the hallway, the other facing other fiberglass tanks for experiments. Aeration shouldn't be a problem, in fact I have probably too much!
Could I feed it frozen Krill that we have? Or maybe misids?
thanks again!

colin didn't I have a thread about discussion's on getting a ceph from the nrcc???
...let me check...

also lotus, the nrcc doesn't reply to your e-mail's as soon as possible, they take week's to e-mal back lol, I suggest you give them a call or e-mail john(head director iat the nrcc) john.forsythe@utmb.edu, he'll contact you a.s.a.p. lol.

Thanks for the advise, I was too busy writing a response to see what you wrote. I'm sure glad I know more about how to order because I knew squat about ordering from them.
Also, my work probably will pay for them, but federal money is so wierd, you have nothing for like 9 months, and then for the remaining three, you have to spend it all or else the money remaining gets taken back. Right now I can buy something, but my supervisor is gone for this week and I have to wait until she gets back, but then my school starts (goin to be a junior, taking 3 honors courses, going to be interesting...)
To tell the truth, I'm becoming more and more interested in cephalopods. I'm on the web researching them when ever I have free time, like I have nothing else important to do (except take care of the fish I already have of course)
chow for now

I was just looking on the web for what temps (in degrees C) Octopus bimaculoides can live in, and NRCC says that it is between 12 and 25 C, so would it be possible to keep one in one of my tanks with the temp being around 18-21C?
Another question about cleaning... if theres some alegea build up on the bottom in the gravel, how clean does that have to be? it always seems like theres at least some in the tanks, and i'm concerned about disterbing a possible future cuttle/octo. Is it ok to siphon clean the gravel using one of those gravel syphon cleaning thingies? Fish I have now are already skiddish of me because of that.
ttyl

okay, you're in your third year in highschool, that's good, why not take AP courses??
first off the nrcc will most likely not let a highschool student buy a ceph, you can bypass the "law" hehe and say you're studying marine/oceanic biography at a uni and you need a ceph for reaserch and testing, you'll get it lol.
the octo bimac's are okay with the temepratures you listed, they'll LIVE okay 8) , now about algea you can read Rockthis post's about the cleaner shrimp's and that might do you some good, it won't intefere with your pet's, just remeber to check nancy's very helpful thread titled "octo checklist" I think. :)
for 17 you seem to be heading in the right direction, of course you need to be really obsessed with ceph's to actually go through with studying marine biology, mind you I got hooked with ceph's at age 7 lol. :goofysca: and now i'm 23 arrg i'm getting old. :grad:

Yah, the thing with the AP courses is that I'm worried I'll have too much homework to actually care for the tanks...
Well that sounds promising that I could do either, it's just that there are so many contadictory reports-cuttles are easier than octopi because they're more social and they can't escape-wait that doesn't mean easier grrr
I love both species, so which one? I'll have to ask around I guess (at the lab).
I guess it depends on whose not as messy because I'll probably only be available one or two times a week after school to make sure everything's fine...I can give a care sheet to my advisor (or the person who will probably feed it too much) what to do when.
I kind of want to get a ceph for our house too, but my parents always say "bah! you'll never take care of it! and it's too expensive to buy all of the equiptment!" and stuff like that. Right now we have a pretty messy freshwater tank (a 40 gal.), so we'll probably have the chance to convert it because it's extremely pathetic right now...

I love both species, so which one? I'll have to ask around I guess (at the lab).
I guess it depends on whose not as messy because I'll probably only be available one or two times a week after school to make sure everything's fine...I can give a care sheet to my advisor (or the person who will probably feed it too much) what to do when.
I kind of want to get a ceph for our house too, but my parents always say "bah! you'll never take care of it! and it's too expensive to buy all of the equiptment!" and stuff like that. Right now we have a pretty messy freshwater tank (a 40 gal.), so we'll probably have the chance to convert it because it's extremely pathetic right now...

bad idea lotus, chances are you've put those chemical's and it probably has been tampered with copper, I would rather buy a new tank just to be safe, equipemnt is VERY expensive, hate to say i'm agreeing with your parent's.Taking care of a ceph even just one is very hard, you have social thing's that might keep you from maintaing it and sooner or later it will die and more problem's ahead of you lol.I suggest you wait a bit longer perferably while you're in college to get a ceph, after you've succesfully manage to keep one for more than 3-4 week's you might be able to get another one if you're up for the challenge, ceph's are very high maintenance, they have special need's and they are not like any ol' pet, they need care and love and they need to have a friend, a friend in the tank otherwise they will get lonely, doesn't neccesarily need to be a soon as you get the ceph becasue the issues of territory might be a issue but after you see you're cuttle being out less fequent look into getting a friend, doesn't need to be acuttle, maybe a hard shelled animal like a hermit crab lol, sound's more like a meal to me lol. :P

Thanks for all of the advise (I'm sure my parents are breathing easier- my sister wants to get a horse and me a ceph! lol). Now are cuttlefish as picky as octo of what they eat because I was reading past posts of giving a whole variety of foods to the ceph when it was first eating.
Some people in my lab are biologists, but they probably won't go for things eating other live things, go figure! lol.
Actually, now that I think about it, the tank that has all of the algae is the one with a little too much fish.
OK I think I'll stick with the cuttle idea. Now would a BIG hermit crab hurt it? It could possibly step on it when the cuttle was burrowed, huh? guess not...I know that hermits are good bottom feeders and they keep the gravel clean really well (I know this because the ones with them are the cleanest! lol)
I'm probably writing way too much in these things...
thanks again!

Its me again
I've been looking all over the web for where to buy the silver sand that colin suggested and I can't find one source that sells it!
Anyone have any suggestions?
Also, what size of cuttlefish would be optimal for my 50 Gal. tanks? I was looking at the 20-60 mm sizes.
Hope everyone's ceph is healthy and happy!

my sister wants to get a horse and me a ceph! lol).
umm that's weird, how old is your sister then, my little sister would like a pony too ya know, but she's 8 year's old lol.

Now are cuttlefish as picky as octo of what they eat because I was reading past posts of giving a whole variety of foods to the ceph when it was first eating.
they are both cephalopod's so it's logical that they share some feeding habit's lol.

Now would a BIG hermit crab hurt it? It could possibly step on it when the cuttle was burrowed, huh?
well you certainly want to avoid any potential hazard's, how big is this hermit anyway's, you'll be surprised once your cuttle/octo eat's the hermit lol. :)
hope this help's.

Actually, my sister's 13 and a very serious rider, so it's very understanding she wants one
The hermit's shell is acutally a good sized conch shell that's about 2 inches wide on the smaller side, so it's a huge hermit, so I guess not.
OK, now what would you suggest to start feeding it? Is a 30mm cuttle ok? what would you feed him? little shrimp probably, or frozen krill?
Thanks for replying!

Actually, my sister's 13 and a very serious rider, so it's very understanding she wants one
The hermit's shell is acutally a good sized conch shell that's about 2 inches wide on the smaller side, so it's a huge hermit, so I guess not.
OK, now what would you suggest to start feeding it? Is a 30mm cuttle ok? what would you feed him? little shrimp probably, or frozen krill?
Thanks for replying!

Oh so she's a rider, that's interesting lol.
You don't really need to worry about the cuttle being killed, worry about the hermit lol, i've woke up many times and seen pieces of crab all over the tank cause of my octo being in the mood of having a midnight snack, but then again it's my o.vulagris and he is not one that takes meal's lightly, he shreds them to pieces, he's about 24 inches go figure.
Well I know that nancy has a checklist thread so you can check it out for any more info you might need, anyway's I would start feeding it krill if I can't locate a fish supermarket, otherwise any seafood like squid might be good.A 30mm cuttle is okay and it's a fair size, i've seen begginer's handle 5mm ceph's which is kinda of a hard task, it's very fragile but also very active.Personally I would feed him krill if I had no choice but I dislike LFS choice of food very much, bloodsucker's ahhh!! :goofysca:
I would feed him squid/shrimp if he's okay with it, at the local fish supermarket they sell squid/shrimp by pound's very very cheap so no prob there.
As posted above krill is fine.

So a 20 mm would be ok too? I think it seems kinda small, but hey it'll live longer.
I'll leave the future hermit food out of the tank lol.
that's good that I can feed it the krill and squid because we have enough of that! I live in RI right near the ocean so if I wanted to I might be able to collect some shrimp or smaller crabs. We actually have an invasive spicies of crab called the Japaneese crab who is very vicious (he actually started following the mantis shrimp when it didn't eat him). could I feed him that? not till he's bigger i guess.
Now do you know where I could get the silver sand? I can find everything else just fine but that for some reason.
thanks for all of your help! I do greatly appreciate it!

yes, it would be ok to go and collect your own food. I live in California so thats what i do.

Cephs love crustaceans so as long as hes big enough to take it on feeding it the crab would be fine

However, i have a question of my own. When we say that cephs can be fed shrimp are we talking about the shrimp that u like dip in cocktail sauce and eat at parties or something else??

When I'm often on the docks, I see shrimp about 1" swiming in schools. could I catch these and feed it to him?

However, i have a question of my own. When we say that cephs can be fed shrimp are we talking about the shrimp that u like dip in cocktail sauce and eat at parties or something else??
it depend's on what shrimp you're talking about lol.

lotus, silver sand is also known as smelt whiting, they sell it but they rarely have it alive, very few fish stores will stock them, it's can be found everywhere in asia, especially chin, hong kong, japan etc.
you can feed you're critter anything from crab's to shrimp, look into buying octopus, prawns, squid, crab, sea urchin, horse mackeral, mackeral, lobster etc. many choices lol.

Would it be safe to stay with the aragonite then? I was looking at Colin's answers to that and he's saying that he mixes aragonite with the silver sand 50/50, but I have a feeling I won't be able to find this silver sand (I did a quick search on google of smelt whiting but there wasn't really anything on sale).
Oh well, at least I know what I'm up against now.
see yah later

lotus check with your LFS lol.

Hey, that's a good idea (stupid me stupid me... :roll: )
the fish store that i have in my neighborhood is actually mainly fresh water, but I'll look anyway.

the fish store that i have in my neighborhood is actually mainly fresh water, but I'll look anyway.
okay, don't you have like a yellow book or a telephone directory which you can look up for LFS's.

Silver sand is just a fairly fine clean silica sand, usually sharp (not rounded) in the UK. Used as childrens play sand.
Small cuttlefish need live food, shrimp shorter than themselves are ideal.
Apparently cuttlefish need to learn how to catch crabs without getting nipped, so I would avoid large/vicious types until you know they can handle easy ones. (I have never fed live crabs to cuttlefish, but did get mine to accept dead shrimp and fish eventually.)

heh, mike just got to that before i did!

So, childrens play sand will be ideal if you can find it in an early learning centre or US equivelent

but my main point that i was going to comment on was the feeding of the cuttle, as Mike says.. they wont accept dead food until the are about 50mm or bigger... the best food for small cuttles is small live shrimp like crangon, palemon or amphipods like gammarus... not easy at all to get hold of in the LFS trade... but self collecting or getting in touch with people who supply foods to the public aquariums may be able to help there

It turns out that we have a bag of play sand that looks like what you described to me :D :x
It doesn't really describe what it is (it doesn't say it's silica free or it has silica in it) but we got it from wal-mart to fill in our new stone patio (ohh fancy! lol) The grain size is about that of a pin head, it's white and it's rough. It says it's used for gardening and safe play sand but that's about it. Safe?

I'm going to call different places tomarrow to see if they have any silver sand (I doubt that anyone'l be open today, except me! :x I work at a frozen lemonade stand at the beach called "Del's")
I was also planning to go down to collect some shrimp. I visited another place yesterday and they had a lot of shrimp also, but some people were saying that there was some pollution problems with the water so I decided against that spot.
Thanks for putting up with all of my questions!

Hi all,
I just visited my LFS and the only "good" sand I could find was #5 silica sand but it say's that it's made for fresh water aquarias. I was planning on adding some finer crushed coral just to make sure that the pH stays up. I have a feeling that the sand is a little too large for a smaller cuttle, so any suggestions?

Well, lil cuttles don't really need to bury themselves so I don't see why such a big fuss over it. They do it only to hide from predators, but I gotta admit they look pretty cute when buried. :D
So hows things coming along Mike?

Sorry to say that I won't be able to get a cuttle... :cry:
The lab is kinda strict about these things-they're worried that it will get too big (which it will) and I'll have to release it, which is the problem. They don't want me to release it into the bay.
I might be able to find someone who could take better care of it (Woods Hole for example, or maybe even my zoo who specializes in aquariums) in the future, but I don't want to get into trouble with the feds :goofysca:
I visited my LFS and they had some sand (they also had a bag of live sand for $20, is this safe, as in good quality?)
I've been reading up alot on how to take care of octo's at home (along with keeping a salt water aquarium fish...) I just helped clean my 40 gal fresh water aquarium and boy does it look better! It's been sitting around for a couple of months without any filtration or aeration with three fish in it (I'm absolutely amazed that they survived). getting to my question, hehe, the tank has never been treated, is it safe if I've been using tap water (i have copper pipes :? ) for when I set up a future aquarium but then convert to RO or do I have to go with the RO from day one? there is salt for tap water and then for RO isin't there?
About my aquaria's at the lab:
My mantis has just molted :)
My pipe fish is still alive 8)
My sea robin is getting kinda big fast so he's going to have to move...
I caught and put in about 3 dozen shrimp from my docks and put them in the tank (they're cool)
My sea bass and cunner are getting too large so I'll have to release them (hmm, free tanks...)
I'll hopefully have some pics soon (If you want to see them...)
All in all, everythings fine (I sent in my Eagle scout application this weekend 8) )
Mike

Well thats too bad :( , so you're planning on getting an octo? Maybe a bimac?

I'm hoping so :D I'm campaigning to get one for home, but I'll probably start off with something easier like clowns or damsels. Besides, my parents want to have something else if we're going to spend that much money! :roll:
I'll try to convince my suprvisor to get a cuttle though, I'm not giving up hope! Not yet at least... :?

Once people see how cool an octopus is they soon change their minds :)

I sure hope so! :D 8) It was them who suggested the octo in the first place :? though I think it was more jokingly than anything, but I think I mentioned that they had one a while back? It was a Vulgaris so it escaped and, well, died :shock: