hey, i got a 18 gallon tank currently with nothing in it.

i was wanting to get a octopus of small size, i figure it would be really cool and a good learnign experience.

would 18 gallons be good for a small species? and if so, what species could happily live in it?

thats all the questions i have for now. i may have more later.

Really the suggested size for even a tiny dwarf O. Mercatoris is 30 gallons, but if you are familiar with keeping saltwater tanks and are diligent about water changes, tank maintenance, and all that you could probably keep a Mercatoris in your 18 gallon. Honestly they aren't very interactive, and they only come out late at night after the lights have been out for a while. My first octopus was a Mercatoris, and even though he was a juvenile when I bought him, he only lived for 4 months.

For now, you should read the ceph care articles on this website. They will answer most of your questions, and probably clarify any other things you didn't think of yet. Just click on the "ARTICLES" link underneath the large TONMO logo at the top of the webpage.

:welcome: to TONMO!

Unfortunately, 18 gallons is a bit smaller than what we recommend even for the dwarf octos, since cephs produce so much waste... it might be OK for a juvenile, but even a dwarf would be likely to outgrow it. Occasionally folks come here saying they already have an octo in a small tank, and they don't always die, but a lot of them do, so I think the safest choice would be to set up a larger tank if you're interested in an octo. Most of the species that are interactive and outgoing are a bit larger, so although dwarf species are appealing for size, they tend to be short-lived, shy, and nocturnal, so considering a larger octo like a bimac is highly recommended.

yeah, been readin them. would there be any small interactive ones that could bein an 18 gallon? thats one of the reasons that i want to get one, is that they sound liek interactive playful little critters. but to start out a less interactive one would do if nothing else could go in it.

and i will definatly try to do what you said to keep water good.

would a small one be able to live or go through hamster tubes? i read tubes are good for them to have for different things and my sister still has her hampster cage in the garage after hers died, lots of tubes i could use. (i would clean them of course)

thanks for oyur help, i'm ognna keep readin

i'm 14 so i don't really have a large bugdet to come from and it will take a few weeks just to get the money for the octo himself. what would be an ok size thats not too awful big?

and if i did oftne water changes and kept the water quality good, would it still just be a little small for a dwarf?

thanks for the help guys.

None of the octo's you could fit in an 18 gallon will be "playful" or interactive. I would suggest not using the hamster tubes if they were previously used, whether you clean them or not. Hazardous things can leach out of the plastic into the water. You have the right idea though.

You should really consider finding a 50 gallon or larger tank, and a larger species octopus. Keep in mind, you don't only need a tank to keep it in, but lots of live rock, a good protein skimmer, and an over-sized filter like a wet/dry or sump/refugium, and possibly even a chiller depending on what area the octopus comes from. It is expensive to set up a proper habitat for a ceph of any kind, and then on top of all that, you might have to supply it with live food for the duration of its life, which is quite expensive also.

pretty sure oyu just scared me out of that idea :eek:

but i'll try to look round for a cheap tank

and is a protien skimmer nessacary to start out with? cuase i always add on to my tanks after a while. what would be the nessesaties to stat with?

i'm 14 so i don't really have a large bugdet to come from and it will take a few weeks just to get the money for the octo himself. what would be an ok size thats not too awful big?

and if i did oftne water changes and kept the water quality good, would it still just be a little small for a dwarf?

thanks for the help guys.

It's not impossible to keep one in a tank that size, but the smaller the tank is, the faster your water quality will diminish, and the harder it will be on the octopus. It's really not a good idea to start with that small of a tank. Not only is water quality harder to keep, but just overall water parameters will shift greatly very quickly, and it's very stressful on the animal.

Not trying to be a killjoy, but understand that keeping an octopus is not easy at all, and it's not worth risking. It would be really disappointing to get one and it dies because you didn't spend the extra money getting a good setup for it. Make sure you can provide it with the best possible home before you get one.

Patience is the hardest thing when it comes to this kind of situation, but it will pay off greatly in the long run. Take your time, buy the things you need over the next several months, and it will be more rewarding, and you will be more likely to get the experience you were hoping for!

pretty sure oyu just scared me out of that idea :eek:

but i'll try to look round for a cheap tank

and is a protien skimmer nessacary to start out with? cuase i always add on to my tanks after a while. what would be the nessesaties to stat with?

Yes, absolutely. Protein Skimmers are argueably the BEST filtration you can have on a saltwater system. They imitate the oceans natural method of removing junk from the water. Plus, they will suck out any ink if the octopus gets startled, which is not uncommon.

gonna check prices on custom building one, unelss that is a dangerous idea?

my birthdway and crhistmas, both in december, will be mainly asking for seahorse supplies, i'll be getting a 50 gallon or so tall tank for them and have to get stuff, wich i would prefer my relations to get me, haha. so i'll just save up what i can for the octo over the next several months like you said. what do you think would be the total price of a starter setup? just thigns needed to begin with. so i can get an idea

That's hard to determine. I wouldn't try building a skimmer to start with. That's a pretty advanced experiment, and it wouldn't be cool to spend the money on the materials and end up with a piece of junk. Where do you live? Maybe there is a local marine aquarium society? If you live in or near a large city there probably is, and if so, you can usually buy used equipment from members for pretty cheap. Plus, they could help you figure out how to set it up, and how to maintain your water.

A good protein skimmer might run you anywhere from $100 up to $300, even more for some of the real fancy skimmer/sump combos. As far as a tank goes, you should try to find one that's pre-drilled... or set up for a sump. This will let you put all of the extra equipment in the sump, and not in the display tank. One of the pains of having a regular aquarium, is that you have to seal all of your equipment so it doesn't get sucked in or escape through cracks between your equipment and lids. With a sump, you only have to worry about the intake being screened off, which is pretty easy. Then again, you have to plumb the sump to the tank, buy a good pump to return water back to the tank from the sump.... oh man. Yeah, you need to do lots of reading!

As an example though, I bought a pre-drilled 72 gallon bowfront tank, with stand, canopy, lids, and completely ready sump with all the plumbing, and with a protein skimmer, for $500 cash from a local aquarium society member. It's everything I would need for an octopus, minus lighting, and lighting is really cheap considering you don't need anything fancy, just low-wattage fluorescents.

You say you are getting a seahorse tank?

yep, been studying and reading about seahorse keeping, caring, breeding, etc for about 6 months now. gonna get a 50 gallon lots of rock and stuff for christmas and birthday, and let it sit there for about 5-6 months to let it get good, buy a couple females to start out with then when i think i'mr eady get a male or a few.

anyway, i ment build a tank. i wouldn't know where to start with a skimmer :indiffer:

i hope all this work and money will be worth it! but it sounds like to me it will

yep, been studying and reading about seahorse keeping, caring, breeding, etc for about 6 months now. gonna get a 50 gallon lots of rock and stuff for christmas and birthday, and let it sit there for about 5-6 months to let it get good, buy a couple females to start out with then when i think i'mr eady get a male or a few.

anyway, i ment build a tank. i wouldn't know where to start with a skimmer :indiffer:

i hope all this work and money will be worth it! but it sounds like to me it will

Okay, well sounds like you've got the right attitude. You'll definitely figure out a lot with the experience you'll get out of keeping the seahorses.

the 18 gal i got now iwll be the seahorse refugium now. i could always breed live foods in teh refugium couldn't i?

the 18 gal i got now iwll be the seahorse refugium now. i could always breed live foods in teh refugium couldn't i?

Good idea.

Yup, that's half the purpose of a refugium. It's a "refuge" for the more fragile critters that would be eaten in the display.

Good idea.

Yup, that's half the purpose of a refugium. It's a "refuge" for the more fragile critters that would be eaten in the display.

Good to see you on here. I'm 14 too, just so you know. I'm MIKE22cha on swf.com in case you didn't realize.

Why not use the 18g as a dwarf sea horse tank and 50g as octo tank? Octos seem easier to keep than seahorses anyways, IMO.

suposedly the dwarf seahorses are harder to keep and breed. plus they need waysmaller tanks then 18 gallons. there tiny, they could live and breed in 10 gallons, and i think even 5 gallons.

plus, i liek the erectus seahorses better then mini ones :p

trying to sell some freshwater things, snails, crawdads, and stuff, to make some moeny for it. so if anyone has a freshwater tank and may be itnerested pm me =P

trying to find someone with a 50 gallong or larger tank near linotn or bloomfield indiana that would wanna sell one cheap.

www.glasscages.com have cheap aquariums
and www.bigalsonline.com has cheap equipement,

If that helps any.
Good luck! :octopus2:

Dwarf Seahorses are really difficult yeah, plus you just about need a magnifying glass to keep up with them.

Erectus are great ones to start with, and I love their cyrri (hornlike appendages).

Good to see you on here. I'm 14 too, just so you know. I'm MIKE22cha on swf.com in case you didn't realize.

Why not use the 18g as a dwarf sea horse tank and 50g as octo tank? Octos seem easier to keep than seahorses anyways, IMO.

Yeah I knew it was you :) I would never have known you were a teenager though, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way.

I would say Seahorses aren't easy, but they are definitely easier than octos.

Yeah I knew it was you :) I would never have known you were a teenager though, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way.

I would say Seahorses aren't easy, but they are definitely easier than octos.


I hope that a compliment?

Anyways, it seems to me that octos just require lots of research and a perfect setup. Seahorses need that plus specific feeding 3 times a day.
I'd rather do octopi than seahorses anyday.

i'd say seahorses are harder. hey i got an idea

you guys send me 300 bucks through paypal and i'll go right to the LFS tomorrow =D

haha, jk....unelss oyu want to >_>

i'm gonna have to start ot with a 100 dollar skimmer. i can always work my way up.

Okay, well in my experience (we keep Erectus) Seahorses are much easier to accomodate, but yes, perhaps after an octopus is acclimated and eating it is easier to maintain.

So what's the plan? Getting a seahorse tank then saving for octi?
Here's what I think, we're both 14 and we have only 4 more years to college. I wanted to get a shark tank, I could have the funds, but I decided by the time I got it I'd only have 2 years with it. Plus that means I'd have to sell my reef. Plus I want a nice car when I'm 17-18. Just some food for thought. :D

my parents will by my car. and i have always wanted a shark tank to. but i decided to wait till i had my own house to by a large pool for.... >_>


and if i do get an apartment sometime, i can always either see if i can move my stuff there or something. there is no way in hell i'm getting rid of all my hard work and all my pets to go to colledge.

(to be a marine biologist/zooligist, go figure)

Ya I'm getting a free car too.(Truck actualy) but I want to get a Honda del Sol and give it a sweet paint job, and a nice sterio, new engine, new customized seats, basicly a 10,000$ project. Which the shark tank would be 5000$ so I'm just going to wait for the sharks and octopus tank till I get a house of my own.

Ya I'm getting a free car too.(Truck actualy) but I want to get a Honda del Sol and give it a sweet paint job, and a nice sterio, new engine, new customized seats, basicly a 10,000$ project. Which the shark tank would be 5000$ so I'm just going to wait for the sharks and octopus tank till I get a house of my own.

Good move, by then there might even be advances in the hobby that allow for even easier or at least cheaper equipment setups.

My comment to you earlier was absolutely a compliment. I've read a lot of your posts on SWF and you come across as being very mature for your age. I wish I'd had that mindset 14 years ago.

I have to agree with Animal Mother that Seahorses are hairdier then most people give them credit if you put them in the proper environment [which is not that hard].
Although my octo experience is short.
EDIT* BTW Im 15.

Good move, by then there might even be advances in the hobby that allow for even easier or at least cheaper equipment setups.

My comment to you earlier was absolutely a compliment. I've read a lot of your posts on SWF and you come across as being very mature for your age. I wish I'd had that mindset 14 years ago.

Thank you soo much. That is quite a compliment.

Fishfreak, good to see another teenage reefer.

I think, if my mom will let me, sticking with the truck and maybe building a pond in my mom's garage. Maybe......I'm going to talk with my mom of course, and talk to some guys that are good friends of mine that know a lot about sharks.

and to think, i used to thinki was one of the few amount of young saltwater hobbyists...

and yeah by the time we both have sharks i bet a protien skimmer would be 20 bucks, haha. at the speed of things these days, some of the sutff we would buy today for a shark tank may be completely outdated.

10 or so years ago it was pretty much impossible to keep seahorses...i think, i fi got my years right



so....BIG NEWS

my parents decided to buy me some things

seaclone 100 protien skimmer
55 gallon tank

heater and filter (wich i'll not use probably on this tank, came with 55 gal)

tank hood+lighting, flaurescent (spelled wrong) i think is what it is

salt, enough to do a 1.026 salinity

some arganite or however you spell it sand. not enough though, i'll have to get more

no octopus of course. i plan on letting the tank mature a couple months or so before looking for one.

whats the prices generally on baby bimacs?

gonna prepare the tank and get itcycling tomorrow!

(will get pics of my stuff soon)

Depends.. I have seen some octos for like $25 - $30 but they were large so I passed on them. Then I found this baby bimac at another LFS for $80... I bought him. If you can find a really small one I would buy it over the cheaper, larger, octopus.

yeah i want to get a baby so i can have it longer.

would the baby octo eat ghost shrimp? (the small clear freshwater shrimp)

and will larger ones eat freshwater clams?

and just to make sure, i can use cut up fish and shrimp thats already dead?

the shrimp and clams could e like a weekly treat or something maby.

Im going to go out on a limb here and suggest two things...
1.) you wait and save up alot of money for your octopus [and i mean alot of money]
OR
2.) you dont get an octo

Here is the reason:
1.) freshwater ghost shrimp/clams are NOT a suitable diet... they are most readily available and cheap though. The octo probably wont live a normal/healthy/long life if you are feeding him on freshwater animals
2.) Not all octo's eat cut up fish and shrimp [frozen fish/shrimp that you defrost]. So, lets just say your octo refuses to even look at ANYTHING dead, then you are stuck with feeding freshwater animals because thats what is available to you. So now you will have to order SW/Brackish water crabs/shrimp which [after shipping] will get VERY expensive.
3.)An alternative would be to go collecting yourself for crabs and shrimp at a local beach but that will, obviously, only work if you are near some sort of beach. You also risk the possibility of the crabs/shrimp coming from a dirty environment thus poisoning your octo.
Just some things to think about...

You might get lucky and have an octopus that accepts thawed raw shrimp and silversides, but don't count on that. Go to www.aquaculturestore.com and look at the available saltwater feeder shrimp and fiddler crabs. Calculate the cost of purchasing them over the course of a year or maybe a year and a half. This is what it's going to cost to feed an octopus, unless, as stated, you get lucky and find one that eats thawed dead foods.

^ Dont forget to add in shipping costs!

tad harsh fish freak

if it doesn't except thawed then i'll get live, not that big of a deal. and on the guide on this very website it said that babies like ghost shrimp.

it also said they eat clams as well.

thats why i asked. and tons of places online said they feed theres freshwater clams. and there octos are healthy.

how long do ineed to let the tank sit there? i read anywhere from a month to three months. how long should i wait?

tad harsh fish freak

if it doesn't except thawed then i'll get live, not that big of a deal. and on the guide on this very website it said that babies like ghost shrimp.

it also said they eat clams as well.

thats why i asked. and tons of places online said they feed theres freshwater clams. and there octos are healthy.

I don't think FishFreak meant to be harsh, but he is right-- we definitely don't recommend a diet of mostly freshwater animals. Jean (who raises cephs professionally) is particularly vocal about pointing out that freshwater animals don't have the proper balance of nutrients for cephalopods, although they're happy to eat them, so it's OK to give them as a treat, but if they're the bulk of the animal's diet, it's likely to be malnourished.

There are also salt water ghost shrimp, which may be what was meant, although there have been octos who survived on freshwater animals; it's not "instant death," it just seems from reports of octos over years that those fed saltwater food are overall healthier. However, if you remember which guide mentions ghost shrimp, we may want to clarify that.

A lot of the recommendations here are "best practices" that are conclusions from people with a lot of experience in octo keeping. I tend to think that the collected wisdom here is usually better than the largely anecdotal octo keeping reports on other sites, not just because I like it here, but because we often see links to "some guy says he kept an octo and..." or "the LFS that sold me the octo said..." but when people try to repeat these experiments, they often come back and say "my octo is dying/dead, what's wrong?"

edit: It looks like the bimac care sheet says "Young octos may be given ghost shrimp, which are easier for them to catch than shore shrimp but are not suitable for long-term use."

I think that's about accurate, in that if you're trying to get the octo to eat something, or ghost shrimp are all you have, it doesn't hurt them to eat ghost shrimp, they just won't be healthy if that's the main staple of their diets... that's why they're "not suitable for long-term use."

Please wait the three months that is recommended on this site. It gives the tank a chance to stabilize. Also, if you wait three months, the bacteria needed to break down waste will multiply in your system.

As for the food supply, every octopus is an individual, so you should have a variety of food (both frozen and live) on hand before you purchase your octopus. That way you can figure out what your octopus likes the best and then purchase the food as needed. Aquaculturestore.com is a reliable source for live food. Octopus will be healthier eating food from the ocean, rather than freshwater food.

yeah, i didn't mean that for there entire diet. just maby like a weekly treat or something.

i was wondering, i know rock crabs are popular when it comes to octo food, is there any websites i can buy these from? i can't find any.

There are not a lot of choices for online octo food (fortunately the few that there are are good) but you might scan through some of the eBay auctions and look for small pet shops or individual divers and email them with a specific request. It is not likely to be a regular food supply but might be a good way to offer a change of diet.